MeNtheboys,

You mentioned this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't just blanketly advise people to remain in situations that are harmful and damaging emotionally and PHYSICALLY simply because they're married....yes, seeing some of that here REALLY bugs me. When a woman is in DANGER, the last thing she needs to be doing is "Plan A".

No, I will *not* encourage such posters to *build* that type of marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a topic that I think is really important. I also DO NOT EVER advise folks to stay in abusive relationships. Neither does Harley. And anyone here who tells someone to go to Plan A with an abuser is "tetched" in the head! Does it happen...you bet it does! And it's important that the everyone knows...ITS NOT MB POLICY and does not reflect the teachings of Dr. Harley. I am one of the authors of the Welcome Thread on EN...so I wanted to quote what I wrote in the introduction there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Disclaimer: This forum is an incredible asset for most people, but only if it is not confused or misinterpreted as marriage counseling. It is not. The people who post here are not counselors. They are other people who are at various levels of learning and applying Dr. Harley's concepts and will help you to the best of their ability to understand them....or simply give their opinions of your situation. Most marriages that are in crisis need more intervention than this site can offer alone. So please remember to use this site in conjunction with professional help and good common sense. The Counseling Center offers an opportunity for couples who need assistance.

WARNING: If you are in an abusive marriage, please consider SAFETY FIRST. These concepts are not designed to keep you in a marriage that is causing you harm. The abuse must be dealt with appropriately before attempting to use this forum and these concepts. While applying these concepts can help couples to rebuild marriages, safety must be a prerequisite for applying them.

Dr. Harley says this about Domestic Violence: My perspective as a professional who has counseled hundreds of violent clients is that these couple should be separated until there is assurance of safety. In many cases that assurance can never be given. If you have ever hit your spouse, you are a perpetrator of domestic violence and need to take extraordinary steps to protect your spouse from yourself. Throughout my career as a marriage counselor, I have done whatever I can to save marriages, but when it comes to domestic violence I draw the line. Unless a spouse can guarantee the other's safety from their own anger, I don't believe they should live with each other.


In situations of abuse or when dealing with addictions to sex, drugs or alcohol (or others), these concepts will not work effectively until those issues have been addressed with proper counseling.

Dr. Harley says this: One of the first things I do when couples see me for counseling is to evaluate them for drug and alcohol addiction. If I feel that either is addicted at the time, I refer the addicted spouse to a treatment program. The Love Buster, drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them from resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated before marital therapy has any hope of being successful.

If you think you might be in an abusive relationship or there is an addiction of some kind at work in your marriage, please go to xpButtercups Abuse and Addiction in Marriage and use the links there to find information about these issues. The offsite links to not necessarily reflect Dr. Harley's opinions and may not work well in conjunction with the MB process. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Starfish,

A while back I started a thread regarding abuse and marriagebuilding. I think it helped a few people.
The issue *I* have is that I see some form of abuse in a fair percentage of the marriges here...some emotional, occasionally physical, and often situations where substance abuse is an issue. I'm sorry, but I simply can't bring myself to post to those people that they should hang on to their marriages. No, I don't come out and say "get a divorce"...but I won't tow the party line of encouragement either.

But some here just push building marriages that simply shouldn't be "built".

me,

I agree that far too often here, people in abusive relationships are encouraged to "build" when they should be RUNNING. It worries me deeply...but there are a fair amount of vets who do our best to guard against that when we see it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I see some form of abuse in a fair percentage of the marriges here </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's a "fair" amount? Since almost all of the marriage situations are described from ONE spouse's perspective...it's really impossible to gage this. There are CLEARLY people staying in abusive relationships...and I'm very adamant that they are in danger and often codependent. Those situations are really sad....but often...no matter how many times we beg those folks to "GET OUT" they are back the next week with a post like "having trouble with the car" like they haven't heard a word. There are a couple of ladies on EN right now... that are told over and over...this is abusive, you are not safe...*sigh*

I've seen spouses talk badly about what a BEAST their husband/wife is...only to come back and present a more balanced perspective that shows the kind of marriage that generally needs work from BOTH spouses. It's rarely as one sided as it is presented...unless both spouses post...and then wowee...you find out much more. I've seen some pretty unfair representations of absent spouses...and exaggeration about what "saints" the spouses who come here are like too. There's alot of "spin" when only one spouse is posting.

By virtue of the fact that this IS a site for troubled marriages...I'm sure that the percentage of abusive ones is higher than normal. I've also seen "abuse" used to label everything. Disrespect can be abusive when it's chronic...but most folks engage in it at one time or another so it really helps to know the whole story before jumping to conclusions that a couple of nasty arguments mean the marriage is abusive.

There are also lot's of OW taking what could be termed as abusive behavior from their MM. It can be especially so when the BW is close to finding out, MM will many times turn on the OW. I know I've heard it said before, how did I suddenly become the bad guy? He said his M was bad, why am I now being ignored while he rebuilds with his wife?

Maybe she wasn't as bad as she (W) was made out to be??

Yes, FMWB, there ARE some OWs taking abusive behavior. I tend to think it boils down to the "type" of man who cheats in the first place. Not all of them, of course, but some of these men simply have an inherant lack of respect for *all* women that eventually translates into abusive behavior...

Hell, take MY situation! I wasn't even having an EMA, and a man who was *supposedly* my friend raped me!! I mean geez, can't get much more abusive than that! (and I happen to know he has a history of that type of behavior)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

Hell, take MY situation! I wasn't even having an EMA, and a man who was *supposedly* my friend raped me!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is one of the things that is confusing about you... Your OC is the result of a rape/crime you never reported... a very bad thing was done to you. And you ask ---> "Those of you with NC do you acknowledge the child's birthdays and/or Christmas with a card or gift?" .... You are talking about a man who raped you! And you'd like him to send your child a card or gift? Why?

Pep

That is kind of baffling... wouldn't you be better off on a rape support board that deals with rape where a child was produced?

Pep,

I have no problem answering that question, as it may be confusing to some, and I can see why...

The reason I asked is that after a fairly long period of time during which NC was had on *both* sides (and very much wanted on mine), I was informed by my attorney that a possible change of heart re: contact was pending, according to my child's father's lawyer.

When I asked that question, it had to do with laying the foundation for contact in the future..i.e., "we're not in your life now, but because we are thinking about being, we'll send a card or gift to let you know we are thinking of you"...

"The reason I asked is that after a fairly long period of time during which NC was had on *both* sides (and very much wanted on mine), I was informed by my attorney that a possible change of heart re: contact was pending, according to my child's father's lawyer."

The man is a criminal ... he rapes women.... and your attorney knows this, of course... (?)

Pep

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

FMWB,

I do get support from *several* different outlets...

I don't expect anyone on a message board to understand my situation or the events that led me to where I am today. Even now they can be frustrating and confusing for me...but the bottom line is that in the BIG picture (bigger than any one board is aware) I know that the way I have handled/am handling my own situation is best for my child.

I realize that because I certainly wouldn't *overshare* on a public message board, people are often left scratching thier heads about my experience. That is why I am thankful for women on all these many different message boards for the specific type of support they have given me(*tiny shout out to KT* :-))

Pep said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The man is a criminal ... he rapes women.... and your attorney knows this, of course... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he is a criminal, and no, my attorney doesn't know....
But again, in this sick, twisted mess, there is a reason for that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by findingmywayback:
<strong> There are also lot's of OW taking what could be termed as abusive behavior from their MM. It can be especially so when the BW is close to finding out, MM will many times turn on the OW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would have to say especially when there is a pregnancy involved. Funny I left an abusive marriage with the help of xMM only to find myself in another, this time emotionally abusive situation. Took me a long time to realize how damaged I had been from my marriage...to get involved with a married man?!?! I think I am finally finding my way out of it all. Still not ready to be in a relationship but maybe it is because now I am so darn careful about the men I go out with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by twilight:
I am so darn careful about the men I go out with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only the BEST for you !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Because you're worth all the care in the world!

(( hugs ))

Pep