I actually DO know what "sanctimonious" means, and that is the last thing I would want to project, so please accept this message in the spirit in which it is given because I, just like every one here...am am not perfect or saintly.

Labels are harsh things because they do lock us into stereotypes and narrow thinking. I do believe it would help so much on this board if we could remember certain things to keep things in perspective. I'm not calling anyone out, or singling anyone out...these are just some general thoughts. Please take them in the "for what it's worth category".


*Try to remember that each of us are individuals who must evaluate our actions based on the needs of our families and our children. Every individual has a right to their opinion and the sole responsibility for making their choices. If we disagree...we can try to do that with dignity and grace.

*Pain will interfere with our ability to act with grace....and it will erupt with fury from time to time. Be tolerant and understanding when it does. Remind people what hate does to the vessel that harbors it...but don't judge folks who feel it. Grief is a PROCESS...and anger is part of it.

*Let's try to respect the humanity of everyone and their right to choose their own path through this jungle. What is right for one person, is a disaster for another. One BS is not ALL BSs. One OW is not ALL OWs. Even one OC is not ALL OCs. Blanket generalizations about people fall apart...but not generalizations about "actions". EMRs are always wrong. Love, poor treatment, poor marriage etc. will never justify EMRs...there are ALWAYS other honest options. They may be understandable, but never justifiable and the folks here are dealing with the aftermath...and it sucks.

*Let's try to remember that none of these labels BS/OP etc...completely describes anyone, and there are kind and wounded people on both sides....healthy and psychotic folks....quiet and explosive people....individuals all.

*Timing is everthing! It's impossible to expect everyone to be in the same phase or in the same state of mind or have the same reference points. Be inquistive and caring....share your perspective, but don't criticize those who choose differently, feel differently...you haven't walked in there shoes. There is a difference between anger and entrenchment in anger....be understanding of both, considering the circumstances that exist on this board and the situations that create these feelings.

*Let's try to protect the sanctity of different forums by respecting posting practices and recognizing the purpose of the boards we visit, and encouraging visitors to be polite in all venues. Neither TOW or MB is particularly welcoming to the other side....though good manners is tolerated and opens good discussions. But both sites are very focussed in on posters with "agendas"....and neither is recieved well no matter how it's "spun". We can learn from each other...but only when we remember where we are and what kind of pain we are likely to cause by challenging the expressed purposes of each site.

*If you call names, judge or attack others, expect similar treatment.

*If you help, comfort and understand others, expect similar treatment.

*Seek first to understand, THEN to be understood.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> *Pain will interfere with our ability to act with grace </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the top ten list of things I've learned about me an other people through my test of pain and fire, this is like, numero 5.

Remembering your graciousness is one of the hardest things to do in this sitch. Remembering and KEEPING it is 2nd to that.

Perhaps I needed the teaching, but Lord, did you have to nail the post-it to my forehead?

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Perhaps I needed the teaching, but Lord, did you have to nail the post-it to my forehead? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kimmy....I laughed and cried both at this comment. You're so right chere.

Goodmorning all,

Love your post Star...Would like to add one thing though. I think our society has become too tolerant of bad behavior in many different areas, A's being only one. I don't believe that allowing people to make excuses for such selfish behavior that op's and ws's exhibit helps anyone who is contemplating an A. I also think that the excuses..no matter how valid..demean the people who have to deal with the pain.

I don't know how to handle those who come here to post, seeking to justify the A and oc instead of seeking knowledge and guidance. I feel demeaned as well as disgusted and first instinct is to lash out. I know it isn't right, but society accepts A's, the media glamorizes them, the law gives ow's almost as much legal right to marital assets as the w as long as she makes sure to get pregnant, the legislators took alienation of affection out of our legal system and harrassment is nearly impossible to prove. There is only so much a person can take without any recourse.

Star,

I heard on the radio yesterday that chronic pain leads to brain shrinkage. I researched on the internet and found www.rense.com where the preliminary research was about back pain.

But I think other kinds of pain apply too. And those who come and poke the wounded, who are trapped in the cage of infidelity against their will deserve less latitude and grace from those being poked. Don't you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

Hi happymom,

It's so frustrating isn't it? I feel the same way, that we've been desensitized as a society to poor behavior and bad choices. Still, everything you wrote here was said with grace and intelligence and that is the key I think to truly being heard.

I don't know how to handle those who come here to post, seeking to justify the A and oc instead of seeking knowledge and guidance.

I think it's very to fair to calmly and intelligently tell them how much of an affront it is to you. There is nothing wrong with expressing your anger and frustration....or confronting someone honestly about the consequences to you as a person. Those folks who just come here to stir up trouble however, or actually get pleasure from "turning the knife" are probably few and should just be ignored....unfed.

I feel demeaned as well as disgusted and first instinct is to lash out.

This is a perfect example of how to express these feelings.....and a huge difference between name calling, shouting, and other insults. Over on TOW, participants are encouraged to "vent" about their feelings about BS....but they read venting here and just "can't understand it". No matter what you hear...."venting" is not a good strategy for anyone. Most folks think it relieves feelings....research shows it intensifies and prolongs feelings. I personally, would like to see tolerance for newbies with encouragement to move past venting and use other strategies that help bring peace to their families and their lives. Anger is going to erupt here...no question....but I'd rather see it soothed rather than fed.

I know it isn't right, but society accepts A's, the media glamorizes them, the law gives ow's almost as much legal right to marital assets as the w as long as she makes sure to get pregnant, the legislators took alienation of affection out of our legal system and harrassment is nearly impossible to prove. There is only so much a person can take without any recourse.

Feelings aren't right or wrong chere...they just "are". It's okay to be angry and it's very okay to express that anger....make it respectful and make it about you...just as you did here. No one is expected to squelch or deny their emotions and becoming active in the "fidelity" movement would be a great place to feel as though you're making a difference.....I know some opportunities if you're interested to put that energy into a little activism.

Thank you so much for contributing to this thread hm. You're a class act.

hahahhahahh kayla!!

I think there are a few cheerful little trolls here and that folks should stop feeding them. Even I can't resist sometimes because their agendas are so obvious. I think it would be best to just report their posts rather than respond....and that's my plan from now on.

I have no idea what a fidelity movement is. I do not wish to hold a moral ruler up to anyone, but if it means leveling the playing field(making the marital contract worth something) I'm all for it.

I saw on one of your previous posts that you were interested in family law-father's rights-cs reform. I have a site you may be interested in as well. I'm not computer savvy so I have to type it out for you, but it's a good read. fatherhoodcoalition.org/cpf/newreadings/2000/RonHenry-on-cs-FamilyLawQ.htm