I've been married for four years. Right before Thanksgiving of last year we moved over seas because my spouse is in the service. On Dec 6 03 I was was unpacking some of our luggage and found a beautiful picture of a handsome littleboy. I was really shocked when I saw the picture because the glass and frame were still in tack. The ones I packed were shattered. I had never seen the child before so I took the picture out and looked on the back. It said: "To: Daddy" and then the child's name I didn't know what to think or do. i had just moved to a foriegn country with no family or friends near. I walked passed my husband who was lying alseep in the living room and locked myself in our bed room. It is now a year later and I am still having problems dealing with the fact that my husband had and affair and produced a child from it. It doesn't help that the lying and decit took place for such a long time either. The child was one when I found out. I just wanted to know from those wives that stayed dispite the oc how did or dod you do it. It's so hard espceially since we don't have children of our own. And dealing w/ the ow isn't great either we still havent been able to come up with an agreeable parenting plan. My heart just aches because although I've choosen to stay the pain is so real and the hurt so deep. I just wanted to know if any had advice on how to deal with the reality of my spouse having a child outside of our marriage and how to positively deal w/ the other woman. Any help is greatly appreciated.

cali,
I'm sorry for your pain and glad you found this board. Hugs. My H is also in military, and we've also lived overseas.

#1 in recovery is working on the marriage itself. Have you gotten counseling?? Have you boughten and used any affair recovery books?? Have you read the marriage principles and taken the quizzes here at marriagebuilders?? There's a lot of good stuff here!! Rebuild trust within the marriage. That's critical.

Then there's XOW/OC. There aren't any books, and only a few brief words from Dr. Harley. Each OC situation is unique, so one way doesn't fit all. Some need no-contact, some can handle contact, some XOW are reasonable, some are completely nuts, some are between; but there needs to be boundaries so there is no opportunity for the affair to re-start.

If you tell us a little more about how contact is/isn't working, you'll get more suggestions. Are you guys near OC? Have you tried going through courts yet? Has DNA been done? Ch-support? Do you have any visitation now?

I'm sure it's an added burden having an OC when you have no children of the marriage. However, I have heard of good recoveries despite the A/OC.

Welcome to the board,
"Jenny" recovery 6y and visitation

Right now we do have contact w/ the child via phone email and correspondance. We visit when we can but since we live over seas and they're state-side its hard. We have done a DNA test and know the child is my husbands. As for the court we don't know what to do about court. Do we go? do we try and settle outside of court. To be honest thats one of my biggest head aches? They have tried to come up w/ a parenting plan I don't know how many time but something alsways changes. We wanted to go to court. When we talked to a fe lawyers though they said most dads wont end up with custody unless something is physically or emotionally endangering the child, which isn't the case. We do want joint physical and legal custody but as of yet haven't found a solution that works well for everyone. Any suggestions?

cali,
Going out on a limb... but imo unless the bio-parents live close, the child(ren) are better off with one primary parent. Meaning one parent sees the child less so that the child can have STABILITY. Stability's importance has been stressed in recent research and I strongly believe in it as a mother and a child of divorced parents.

That said, there is also a large body of research showing that children do much better with an involved father (or father-figure: step-dad, grandpa, uncle) in their life. Men are not disposable. The key is finding balance between dad involvement and stability, which is nearly impossible long-distance.

My H did not see his OC for 6y, mail contact only. We were no-contact for last 2y due to strange XOW behavior. We did not have the time and money to fly around the world, considering we have other children at home, and really, what good is a few days to a very young child who won't remember anyway? That was how we looked at it. Visitation began this year when we returned to OC's area; we still don't fight for lots of time given that OC has an otherwise stable and safe life (only if OC were in danger would we fight for custody).

If you get lawyer and go to court in OC's state, your H will be given the visitation due him according to state guidelines. Do an internet search of visitation OC's state and you'll find the guidelines, which are different for long-distance parents. H's NOT likely to get joint custody while living overseas, just summers or whatever. The distance is just too great, and I honestly don't think it's good for a child to attend two different schools in the same year and so forth.

How long does your H have left in military? If you really want joint custody/major involvement in OC's life long term, I think you'll have to move near him. Is XOW basically cooperative re: visitation, or is it a continual problem? Does OC have a step-dad or other role model? Would your H let a step-dad adopt, if given the chance? Is it worth it to you and your H, the legal battles, and whatever the stresses? Only you guys can weight the pros and cons of your OC situation.

Re: dealing w/xow, some feel better for the wife to be the only contact w/XOW. My H does the talking about major issues, always when I'm around. H is never alone w/xow, for his own protection. We kid-exchange in neutral locations, not homes. I talk to xow sometimes (re: schedule, OC Christmas list, etc.). I try to talk positively, not talk about the past, and stick to the subject of OC. I try to keep OC's greater good in mind, without compromising our marriage. I don't dis xow in front of OC (no matter how much she deserves it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

I hope this was helpful and not too wordy.
J

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>

Jenny,
Thanks so much for your advice. We recently went to visit OC for his birthday and we left feeling like how much bonding did we really have in just a week and a half. My H and I really want to have a major role in the upbringing of OC but h is making military a career and so we'll always be on the move somehwere. Where they are isn't even a possible duty station for us. When we do come home the OW doesn't have a problem w/ us visiting. But we both want more than to simply visit the child. We don't neccessarily think splitting the oc 50/50 each year is the best but what else should we do? Why should it be that she has oc the majority of the time instead of us? I guess it just doesn't seem fair. The ow isn't married; she's a single parent so their isn't any step parent present. Her brother resides in their home but she feels he's a bad influence due to his "Street" lifestyle. She doesn't want oc to spend a lot of time w/ uncle or his friends so they wont be a bad influence to oc but yet she still lives there. She doesn't have a job and we're her only support aside from state aid for food stamps I think. As for dealing w/ her my husband handles most of that. Which part of me is exstatic about because it seemed as if I was doing most of that in the beginning. However that makes me uncomfortable to be honest. I still don't trust either of them to be honest. They both say that they don't want each other and he swears all he wants is me but thats what I was told for the last fours years( that he only wanted me) only to find out he was cheating on me w/ her everytime he went home to visit and that I had been lied too in such a major way for the vast majority of our marriage. I would want to honestly have contact be between 3 of us. i want to feel involve, partially because I am but more so because I want to make sure everything is on the up and up. H has said many times if he wanted to be w/ her he would have left and been w/ her but he stayed because he wanted to be w/ me. I guess to him that should bring reassurance but to me it enrages me that we even have that conversation like being w/ someone else beside your spouse is ok to ponder. But back to OC should we just try and fight for full custody then. Oc is a boy and both H and I feel it's very important that H is present to help raise him. We firmly believe that a woman can not raise a man to be a man. She may try but in the end it takes a man to show a young man how to become one. Any thoughts please post.

Cali,
did you have OC for any overnights during visitation? How long at a time did you have him without his mom, and how did he do?

Is there any chance xow would be happy/willing to give dad primary custody? If she knew you would care well for him and she'd have visitation? Or would she fight you tooth and nail? If she's not a bad mom and not willing, I personally wouldn't fight (in court) and the active duty guy's not likely to win.

A kid under-6 (esp. under 4!), their job is to learn to trust and love a primary person. Even at 6yo, when our OC got hurt last weekend, we let her talk to her mom via phone, and OC felt rapidly "better"--kwim? The kids I knew who had to leave mom-figure young hated it, or they were too unattached to care--(bad! unattachment can lead to serious probs).

As kids get older, visitation can interfere with their interests (like sport seasons) and social life and "down time". Even us going to visit (distant) grandparents can REALLY screw up our home schedule, so it's a hard choice.


This is how military parenting is for us: I am my kids' stability. Dad deploys, they miss him, we travel, we move, school, friends change, lots of stresses and unknowns, but I am always there for them. I worked for a base after-school program while pg w/my first child and babysat younger m. kids. With all due respect to working parents everywhere, I saw many drawbacks for the kids whose parents both worked, esp. dual or single-parent active-duty subjected to loooong hours and frequent moves and separations/deployments. (Two of those babies today are in state rehab!) I've also seen children of m. divorce (divorce very high in military)... and imo it takes unusually good cooperation to make distance visitation actually good for the child.


What am I trying to say? Either get primary custody knowing YOU are OC's stability, or don't push for *lots* of time unless you're sure it will HELP the child.

Other Option:
If you guys can't get custody but can be patient, keep up the contact you can, and he MAY need you full-time when he's older, given mom's lack of $$ and possible bad influences. I know single moms willing to let dad keep the son starting at 6, 10, or 16 because of the gender issues you mention. Heck, if I divorced, I would consider (dad custody) for my son! At that point, though, he's a kid with some baggage whose values may be different from yours, and that's hard.

Imo distance parenting is more like "open adoption": contact is so limited and NOT really raising the kid.

Lots of serious and difficult things to consider.
J
PS You don't mention any work on the marriage and trust. Have you tried counseling, books, etc?

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>

I would see a lawyer and have documents drawn up and filed in court. That is how we handled the situation. If you have it spelled out now in legla documents, there are no legal surprises later. You have your child support put down, visitation set up, who how and when child will visit. Who pays for travel. Insurance coverage is set up, who pays what, whether you split it what the insurance doesn't cover, or she the deductible since the OC is on your insurance.
When we did this, what my H had been paying went up, but it was better than what it would have been in court. We pay $500 a month in CS.
He had been paying $350. We are supposed to have alternate Christmases, Thanksgivings, Easter was left open. While the OC was young a little time in summer. Now she is 11, so we could get her for a month in the summer.
All that said, we have never had contact with the OC. My H's choice. We have never lived close to them. At first we were in Ky, they were in NC. Now we are "home" in TX, they are in NC.
We will only have contact if the OC initiates it and pursues it.
Hope this helps give a different perspective.
Good luck.

Texasgirl

Read the Texas Child support thread, just bumped it up.

TG

Jenny,
We have tried to go to counseling but only for a short period of time. They don't have a lot of counselors here. They counselor we were going to was also a school C and after the summer break we didn't here from him. We were thinking we should try and go back. In the mean time however we've been working on honesty even if it hurts and trust. We went to a Christian marriage retreat in July and had a really good time. Overall though I've just begun to personally deal w/ the whole thing. I got some books from the library. Any suggestions of what else I could be doing. Sometimes its hard because I'm overseas and so far from everyone. I really like your advice. I'm definitely going to talk about it w/ H. i know all in all he is stable. However just a month ago the OW mother was moving out and she keep talking about moving into a homeless shelter. This possibility of instability and her inability to provide should her family makes other decisions really concerns us a lot. But we'll see how it all goes. I doubt she'll let us have primary custody. I just wish there was some way we could come to a compromise. Wishful thinking I guess.

ok---------you are nowhere physically near OC but you are pondering some form of joint custody?

LEt's get a little real here: NO judge will take away a child from their mother jsut becuase they are poor or on welfare. W/ that being said..YES get it done legally.

I don't know how H military schedule works but if you know in advance of travel to OC area then have it in the custody papers that you will visit w/ OC whenever you are in town. YOu can still build a relationship w/ OC by mail, email & phone that way OC is still getting to know his dad.

As OC gets older, then maybe he can spend summers w/ you & perhaps Christmas breaks. Although your H really won't be doing much of the parenting....it doesn't mean he can't build a relationship w/ his child. AnD if he has had a consistant relationship w/ OC then.....when those teenage years hit.....OC may want to have more time w/ dad & choose to live w/ him. That is very likely.

Some situations jsut canNOT be fixed, as much as we like them to be. WE create these messes & expect that there is soem perfect solution WELL GUESS WHAT-------------there isn't.

IF we think about these choices we make BEFORE we make them--------------We all (WH & BS) have to relize that there are severe & soemtiems lifelong consequences form these A's.

It is very sad, yes, extremely but...........MY comfort is that GOD planned & designed these children (all chidlren) to be born & have a life. They have a purpose. IT may not be the best or ideal life but it's still a life.

ALL we can do is make the most of what we have & learn from our mistakes.

SO my vote is to keep regular & consistent C via mail/email & leave OC w/ his mother.

It's very hard to accept that some of our mistakes or spouses mistakes CANNOT be fixed!

DITTO KT's last line!! It's beautiful that you care so much for this little boy whose conception was so devastating for you, but your situation really limits contact options; been there, done that. I racked my brain SOOOO many times wondering how to make it better, as you are doing. Prayer and acceptance was the only relief.

If you'd like to email privately, I'll give you some long-distance keep-in-touch ideas. Again, there's a chance you'll get OC at some future point if mom keeps struggling (not to wish her ill; poverty sucks).

Also, the excellent recovery book which helped us most was "After the Affair" by Janis Abram Spring; and the principles and questionaires here at mb.

I've enjoyed trying to help.
J

Jenny I'd love to hear the long distance ideas. My email address is cali_smile99@yahoo.com. Hope to hear from you soon and thanks for all the help. ktbunch thaks for the reality check. Maybe thats what I needed to hear.

cali,
I got it and I'm emailing. You can delete add if you like.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
J