I am wondering.....w/ the new influx of BW married to H 'on the fence'......how many are there?

And I want to know....from the ones who feel they are fairly recovered...how many H were EVER on the fence & how long did it last?

And I am defining 'fence' as still communicating w/ OW in ANY way, even if 'claiming' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> it is ONLY for OC sake.
`
I am also asking this BECAUSE if it can clarify for some BW that fence sitting is still a way to be involved w/ OW then maybe that can clarify what steps you should take next ie: plan b, legal separation ect.

I mean if the OC is NOT even born yet....then OBVIOUSLY there is NO reason to have ANY communication w/ OW. IF OC is already born, then do DNA, go to court & there you go.....still very little reason to communicate w/ OW.

I see no excuse. Either you want the marraige or you don't. AND if you are NOT acting like you want the marriage by avoiding C w/ OW...then you DON'T want the marriage right?

And if you are still communicating w/ OW then aren't you still in the A? Maybe not PA but still EA which is STILL A. IT is still a form of an A in progress.

I am hoping this might give some clarity for some of you who are fairly new to this & lost in the confusion & shock.

Any one else wanna add their POV?

***********************
***********************
Ok--that's wierd, I had this whole paragraph about my own H.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyhoo...here it is again. For my H, when OW told him she was pg, & he felt like that was the moment a choice had to be made, he made it & never looked back. It was probably even a bit cruel the way he said it to OW but....somewhere deep in what was left of his heart, was his true choice.

It was me & our son. When the decision was made that was it. NO calling OW back to check up on OC, nothing, nada, zip. Only communication was legally from OW. @ least I give her that much credit for accepting it ( @ the time) for what it was. Plus we moved away. That was IT. It was OVER, no mulling over it, no second thoughts, no doubts.

And the kicker...I didn't even know about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I wasn't demanding anything, looking over his shoulder, or anything. (of course I did once I finally did find out).....but over means over & over it was.

And I'm not trying to say I am some great thang either....there was tons of LB once I did find out....as sd says..bride of chucky...yah I resembled that lots of days. But H just took it as what he deserved (whether right or wrong) & he was gonna do whatever was necessary to keep us together and continue to prove it to me as well.

Going back to OW was never an option for him.

(I'm freaking out here, I've typed stuff & it keeps just disappearing! WTH. it's happen a few times now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )

Anyhoo, add your POV about this. I am really interested in how FWS really act when it's truly over & what over really looks like so that some of these newer ones can get a better idea of what to expect & what to believe...if it can help.

Because, otherwise....I just don't get it.


ooo
xxx
kt

OK, first off, how can a BW be married to a H on the fence...I think that is where it gets confusing...If your H is still on the fence then he is not your H yet, he is still the WH.

My WH has used the excuse of the PG for contact the entire time...He feels sorry for her, he needs to check up on her, she is sick, yada, yada, yada...bla, bla, bla...There comes a point where the BS MUST look at the WHOLE picture and decide what she/he wants in life. This is OUR decision.

For ME, I am NOT going to live my life looking over my shoulder each and every day. I am NOT going to live my life with an OC in it. I did not marry my H for this...therefore I DONT have to live this way. This is the life that the WS has CHOSEN HIMSELF...we did not choose it for him. There are consequences to be had in the end and if that means losing his FIRST family over it, then that is what happens. It was HIS choice, not YOURS!

I have also come to terms with the fact that no matter how much he wants to change IN THE MOMENT, he wont! Right now my WH is not in the home. He WANTS to be in the home and he says he cant stop contact or whatever until he is back in the home. OH and if I would LET him come back home, we could start rebuilding this marriage. If I would LET him come home, we can start from scratch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ummm, I am not sure if I answered the question or not...I seem to be rambling today. OH yes, if you have a fence sitter, Plan B is the way to go...I will be going after the holidays. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My H was on the fence for at least 2 months. He wasn't even sure if he wanted to be in a relationship with me and our children. He said that he wanted to work with me but that he still wasn't sure if he could commit to me. He was/is living at home and we were/are going through IC and MC. It was through my patience, counseling and showing him how much we mean to him that he has finally chosen me/us. The fog lifted and he sees the OW for what she is.

He does have limited contact with the OW. This is because the Oc is just 1 and there needs to be some communication about visitation, medication, day care, and some daily activities that need to be discussed. It does kill me that they do have to speak, but I know that for the baby it is a must. I have requested that all contact with her be made while I am present. That does not always happen, but he is making progress. I do know that he is ONLY talking about the OC. Also, he does have to pick up and drop of the OC 2 times a week. He calls me before he enters the OW home and calls when he leaves. Usually, it is only a few minutes long.

I don't understand how a father can turn his back and have nc with the oc. The oc is an innocent byproduct of this A. Eventhough, I have been the most injured in this situation, I still can have compassion and empathy for an innocent OC. I see how much my H loves my children and I would look unfavorably at him if he could easily shut out any child of his. It takes a lot of strength to be able to put aside my fears, resentments, and anguish to better a child that is not of my body. But, the OC is part of my husband and I must think of him as innocent and deserving of a father. It does help that my OC is only 1. It makes it easier to bond with him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't understand how a father can turn his back and have nc with the oc. The oc is an innocent byproduct of this A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An innocent byproduct of an AFFAIR that should have NEVER happened. I feel so sorry for these children born out of Affairs. They are trully the ones that will be hurt the most. I always told my WH that I would accept this child but NOT the OW...thru HIS actions he has not respected my wish for NC for his OW therefore, destroying the family he already has and also destroying the love I have left for him.

I also dont understand how a father and a husband can turn his back on a family and children he ALREADY has for an OW or an OC. It has nothing to do with the OC, but rather the WS in the situation...If the WS is WILLING to accept NC with the OW except thru legal terms, then it can work out...but when you have a H that continues to disrespect his BS and see the OC and OW behind her back, then it will never work...I trully believe that in my case we will end up divorced as my WH has proven time and again he cannot go NC. Very sad to see him give up what he already has...But that is HIS choice and only HIS!

Hello all.

As for fence sitting, aka still having C with OW.. Mr Lee did his share.
He had asked for the separation.. I moved out, then Dday came 2 wks after I moved out...

Separation lasted about 2 months.. but the fence sitting continued.
OW wasn't due for 4/5 more months... yet, contact via the telephone and emails "about the baby" continued for a couple of months...
Only after we filed to establish paternity, yes we filed BEFORE the OC was born, did C begin to slow down.
The only contact after filing was when we saw her in court and when she went to the hospital.

I knew he was still fence-sitting.. he continued to be in a fence-sitting fog until after he began keeping Lil Bit each day while OW worked.
Once he witnessed her "true colors" he came out of the fog completely.

That is my experience with H's fence-sitting.. in a nut shell.. LOL

Stacia

Well, the TWO Ochildren in my life are neither products of my DH's affair but rather close family members. But, my DH came clean to me, he told me everything, Over six years ago now. I packed his things and made him leave THAT DAY! After two weeks, and ALOT of pleading, begging and truthful talks... I allowed him to come home. But, for a further two weeks, he stayed in my sons' basement apartment. I wasn't allowing him back in until he:A. Had STD evaluations, and B:, signed certain legal papers regarding what the consequences would be should this happen again. Re: My financial security.
He protected himself with his lies during his affair. I learned to protect myself afterwards! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

oops, double post, sorry!

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: cherise ]</small>

With my H, the fence sitting period lasted about 4 months. But I think it would have lasted longer if Ow didn't establish the NC.

With me, ashamed to admitt the fence sitting went on for a few years. I am proud to say that I finally got off the fence and my marriage is now so much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't think my H was on the fence at all. When I found out he was the one who had to beg and plead to stay. I filed immeidately for divorce. He had to fight like crazy to stay in this marriage.

As for no contact, turning back on oc, etc. I have no problem whatsoever with that. THIS family came first. I was not going to disrupt my life and my family. My husband agreed from the get go and no contact was deciced upon long before oc was born. Had my husband wanted contact, this marriage would have ended and my children would be hurt. No matter what choice is made, everyone gets hurt. No sense in having the BW "tough it out". Everyone should take their piece of the hurt pie and move on. BW/MM have to live with the hurt and marital issues. The children of the marriage hurt, feeling unsure of the stability of the family. The ow hurts seeing herself and her child rejected. The oc hurts, growing up without a father to tuck him/her in, etc. But that is the nature of affairs. It is not right to expect the BW and her children to clean up the mess made by two selfish people.

Back to fence sitting. I think if a husband is unsure, a short plan A and then a strong plan B.

I can tell you that for me, way back then, I went to an immediate Plan B. Had my husband even considered speaking to the ow he would have never set foot in our home again. PERIOD. I know he didn't cause she would call and beg to speak to him and would get angry and cry on the machine about being "abandoned". To bad for her. She had no problem with him abandoning us now did she? So her feeling alone and scared was her problem. When oc was born, not a big deal. The tests were done, cs established and she was told to stay away from us as we were not going to have contact with either of them in anyway, shape or form. PERIOD.

Had my husband broke that, he would be gone, as I was not going to stand by and live my life in turmoil and upheaval. He could have had contact with oc, but he would have lost us. That was his choice to make. Not mine. I didn't put him in that situation. He did.

If your H's are playing games, put away the tears and the pity me tear fest. Get educated on where you stand. Be proactive not reactive.

If you are firm and treat yourself and your own boundaries with respect, so to will others. If you tell him that if contacts ow, he is out, and he does contact her. He needs to go. You have to be true to your word or you will be walked on. If you arn't able to stand by your words, dont' make them. Cause once you back down, he will not take anything serious anymore.

Lynn, I am happy that your husband had to beg you to stay with him. It makes it so much more easy to make demands and have your needs met. But, this is not the case for many of us. We have to show our husbands that our homes are where they belong. It is easy to say what you would do if your H was fence sitting if you never really were in the fence sitting position, I have been able to handle so much more than I have ever thought possible.

I am also happy that NC with the OC is the right decision for you. It was not the right decision for my H and myself. I know that I now will have a lifetime of continued contact with the OW because of the contact we have with the OC. For me, I would think less of my H if he could abandon any child mistake or not. But, I truly am happy for you. I would not want you to go through with anything that made things worse for you and your family. Take Care.

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: family1st ]</small>

My H fence sat for about 4 months. Of course, he told me he was not in C with OW and we were in counseling and working on our marriage. OC was not yet born. But it didn't feel very good to me. I knew something was wrong, but he denied everything.

H had rented an apartment near his office during affair (office is about 1 hour from our home), and I did not know about it until the A was revealed. He kept telling me he was closing it....that had been a condition, but he kept dragging his feet. During his fence sitting period, OC showed up several times at the apartment unannounced. She lives out of state, and has a key. Of course, this is what I was afraid of the whole time and why I wanted it closed. And he had contact with her by phone nearly daily.

I didn't really know about a "withdrawal period" before, but I am sure this is what was happening. Besides her attempts to keep him. She would tell him things such as "Your wife will never forgive you, you should stay with me". Or more typically more guilt developing topics about the OC and stuff.

I can say positively that our marriage did not start to really recover until he had finally made and kept the commitment for NC with OW. He would take huge steps backwards in our progress everytime he talked with her. He was not there for OC birth.....I could not have dealt with that whole bonding thing. He only was able to shake off the fog and take off the rose colored glasses about OW when he wasn't in constant contact with her.

We have had NC with OW/OC for 4 months now and we are doing better than ever! Counseling has helped tremendously and my H is making changes within himself that I never thought would happen. I am too! He has said things to me about A and OW that I never thought I would hear! And I can tell he means it. I still have the nagging fear that I am being duped again.....but I don't really think so. But for sure, in our case, NC with this OW was the only way our marriage could have survived and is thriving.

I have wondered if the A and the pain associated with the whole mess has been a price that we both paid to really make progress to the marriage we both have wanted. We were not unhappily married, but I don't think we would have recognized the flaws, gotten help or made the sometimes painful changes necessary to make a strong, connected relationship that can last.

To all you newbies: Even if you are planning to have C with OC. Give your and your marriage a break from OW. Give yourselves time to heal and rediscover your love without her influence and demands. There is so much more that I know and understand about A's now........I could handle it much better now. I am planning on it never happening again, but I am keeping my eyed peeled!

Good luck! Fence sitting is demoralizing to the BS!!!

I think it's hard when a husband is fence-sitting. For me, my WH ended the PA before I found out about it. And I don't think there was much of an EA anyway. We have decided for now, that my WH will only speak to the OW in my presence. For now this is what I need. And in a situation like this I think the needs of the BW are the most important.

I guess we are in a honeymoon period and have regained the love and respect for eachother that before all of this came to light, was lacking in our situation. I don't respect my WH for the choice he made, but as much as I can, I understand. I don't take responsibilty for his choices, but I at least, know hwere he was coming from at the time as much as I can. I do respect him for all of the other things that he brings to me and my family...I respect his honesty in light of the affair and his willingness to see MY point of view. My husband recently suggested that part of the reason I stayed was because of our family. I let him know that it was NOT. I don't think any of this is good for our family. The reason I stay is because of his forthcoming honesty, his visible love for me and his genuine regret. Without that, none of MY willingness would be possible.

I think NC with the OW is not possible if you plan on having contact w/OC, which we do. So that part puts those of us in a unique situation. But IMO, the BW's feelings about C should be of utmost importance. If you are doing something that makes your BW uncomfortable/untrusting, how can you begin to make ammends for what you have done and thus repair the damage? Not to mention, it breeds more disrespect for the BW.

IMO, if someone is fence-sitting, Plan B seems the logocal option. Trying to show him what he will lose by being the "wonderful wife" seems fruitless if he isn't fully present. A WH who is fence-sitting isn't ready to see the bigger picture IMO, and for me, it would just make me feel worse about myself for staying, if that's possible after what he's done in the first place. The best thing I ever did for me after D-Day, was to reflect about my role in "where things went wrong" and then to get up and OUT and take care of me. I got to see who I really was, what I had to offer and to regain self-respect and
self-admiration and realize with or without this man I would be Ok and that I was of value to the world and I knew I deserved better...and I got it!

Family12t - If you are choosing contact with the oc, and are supportive of it, that is fine. That is your choice to make. Everyone here will support you to the fullest. While I certainly am 100% against contact, I don't think less of anyone who chooses that option.

As for fence sitting. My husband never had a chance to sit on the fence. I did not do a Plan A at all. It was an immediate reaction. He was kicked out on the spot. Keep in mind this was 18 years ago. Sure, he came around, quickly, but don't forget, I too heard the same news as you.....there is an oc.... I did exactly what I said: "Get out". Then when he wanted to come home I was firm. One word to her, and you would be gone. Based on my initial reaction, he had no reason to think I would not follow through. Fortunately, I had a wonderful support system that was proping me up. I was not the strongest woman at that time, believe me. I was the same muddled, teary-eyed, scared woman that any wife would be at that time. But I was constantly reinforced to be strong and be firm....with myself, by those who had been there.

What I am saying is that instead of wasting time wishing and hoping, be proactive. If he chooses to leave and be with her, there is nothing you can do or say anyway. If he wants to stay in the marriage, it is not out of line to figure out your needs and address them. But be prepared to stand behind those demands, or the words are useless. I am not saying you have to be raving nagging hag. I am saying now is the time for total honesty. Do you want this in your life? Are you doing it cause it appears to be "the right thing to do" If so. For whom is it the right thing? It is vital to be totally and 100% honest with yourself.

So lets think of your situation. You are in favor of your husband having contact, for the sake of the oc. Ok. That is fine. But then you seem uneasy about the constant reminder, the "chatter" of others knowing, his freinds knowing, etc. This is where you need to really take a look. You say you would think less of a man who abandoned a child (child support is not abandoning), but what about your thoughts of that same man who is expecting his family to just accept the oc, no matter how they feel? Is he a better man? Nope.

This is where I am firm on being honest with oneself first. In a perfect world (well there would be no affair/no oc) we would all get along like a Norman Rockwell painting. But this is real life. Real feelings. Real Emotions. Why are those feelings and emotions of the BW less important then those of the oc? The first thing that everyone needs to be aware of is that EVERYONE is getting hurt, and that the oc needs do not supercede those of the wife and children of the marriage.

Once EVERYONE is truly aware of all the issues of each person who is effected, then the honest discusion can happen. I say this cause I have seen where a wife, wanting to do the right thing, holds her feelings in. As time passes the anger bubbles to the surface and the resentment eventually destroys the marriage. What a waste. Had her husband realized, or known that it was to much, he may have backed off trying to "do the right thing for oc" and "done the right thing for his wife". Their marriage and their children would not have had to suffer. They too are innocent, are they not? Maybe contact would have worked at a later time......

The bottom line is NOW is the time to be totally honest. Brutally honest. 100% honest. So, if you are happy with contact, then enjoy the child when you have him in your home. Forget what others say/think about it all. Hold your head up cause that is your choice and really none of their business. But if you are having feelings of regret, or anger, DEAL WITH IT NOW. Don't let it fester. If the marriage is going to heal and be strong, it has to have honesty on all sides. That includes you too.

I made it clear that I would not be a part of oc life and that oc was not welcome in my home. My husband was aware of that. He knew that he had his decision to make. He could have easily divorced me and had contact with all of his bio children. He had all the cards on the table to make his decision. He CHOSE no contact with the oc. I did not force him. I told him what I would accept. That is what I mean by being strong. I truly and seriously meant it. I would have divorced him. I was prepared to. I had a laywer on retainer and I can honestly say came close a few times to just ending this. So he was well aware of how I felt. I remember being worried that he would want to know oc and thus ending up divorced. I was prepared to walk if that was his choice. We did not fight over it. I was not like "oc or me" not at all. I told him that I could not and would not have oc in my home or my life and then told him why I felt that way.

When he chose no contact I was ok. It does not mean that our marriage immediatly healed. The anger and outburst still happened. The long roller coaster of emotions still happened. Pretty much everything that the newbies here feel, I felt. It was just that we had decided,early on no contact.

Basically, it makes no difference what the choice is, as long as nobody is forced. If my husband wanted contact we would have had a huge problem. Could we have stayed together? Probably not. But it was his decision. I did not threaten him with my child , or threaten to leave town, or whatever. So, if you are choosing contact, and it is your choice to do so. Then hold your head high and smile. You have done nothing wrong. But if you are having contact cause it is what he wants, or cause it is "the right thing to do" think about who it is right for? If you are uneasy about discussing this with him, why would you be? What are you afraid of? If you can't be honest with all of your feelings, what is the value of the marriage? Now is the time to rip it open and really put it on the line....or it will fester.

Trust me on one thing. No matter what happens, what decisons are made, you will survive and thrive. This is not a fatal event. Everyone will be fine. I am sure ow and her family are fine. Just as ours is. This truly is not the worst thing that can happen in the span of a life. It just feels that way at first. Once everything settles down everyone goes on with their own lives.

My WH was "on the fence" for about a month after OC was born. I couldn't figure out what the he++ was going on because I knew he didn't want anything to do with OW and had stated that from the very beginning. His exact words were "I'd have never spoke to her again had this not happened".

Come to find out he was struggling with "doing the right thing". You know the old fashioned thing about being in a relationship because there's a kid involved. The guilt that the OC is living with his impoverished, lazy a++, do nothing mother in a dumpy trailer that doesn't have room for the 11 year old (product of same situation)she has let alone another kid.

Don't they pick the dandies. Someone quite the complete opposite of we BS, the majority of from what I can tell have it all together and then some.

I still don't know for sure why he suddenly came out of the fog land he was in, but from what I can gather several people told him that was a dumb-a++ way to be thinking and the fact that I told him I'd gone to see an attorney and if he wanted a divorce I was prepared for that. I laid out what I wanted in the divorce and how it was going to be. He was quite surprised that I had given it that much thought and time.

He became a changed (not perfect mind you) man. He told OW that he was taking care of the OC at our house and that's the way it was going to be. He makes her come to our house (not allowed in the house - driveway only) to pick him up.

Things are far from perfect, but are getting more back to a "norm" (hard to remember what that was like).

Really busy and didn't read all the posts.

My H was never on the fence and if he had been I would stuck the fence pole up his a__!

I'm not sympathic to WH or WW who sway back and forth. To me all their doing is using both parties involved and getting to have their cake and eat it too. Neither woman should allow that to happen. The OP has already shown he/she is willing to be used and disrespected by consenting to have an A with a MM.

In my case my H had already made me his choice and had ended the A before I even found out about it. So maybe its easier for me to say that coming from there. Men are not worth fighting OVER! Fighting for your M is different than fighting over a man.

similar to you Gwenie....FWH A had ended long before I found out. So no fence sitting....& after I found out.....I immediately moved out (separated) anyway.

SO I don't get that whole 'fence' sitting thing.

Either you are 'in' or you are 'out'.

(am I repeating myself? sorry)

But when your WS is disrespecting your needs/wants/whatever w/ regard to OW & communicatin w/ OW--------that is NOT being committed to the marriage.

If there will be C w/ OC----then it MUST be set up legally & there is NO reason for daily communications w/ OW.

My H works & we are married but I am NOT calling him @ work everyday to 'update' him on our kids. uhhh...hello?

Things like basic care, meds & instructions can be done in the form of a log book (which is recommended anyway to avoid ANY confusion). And yah....if you have already requested to be present DURING conversations...........................WHAT reason is there for WS to talk to OW w/o you then? That seems obvious to me.

Yes, I don't really know what I would have done if it were different. If I had found out DURING A.....but I think I would have done the same thing as when I did find out-----LEAVE. And that was w/ him already saying it was over!

I feel for each & every one of you stuck in the middle of this---just wanted to give you something to think about.


ooo
xxx
kt

Sometimes it just takes longer for some BS to "wake up" or "get it"...I am finally starting to see the LIGHT! WOW! I cant believe what I have put up with this past year! I will be going into Plan B after christmas and I am really looking forward tot he peace! AHHHH, I can see the light!

My H is on the fence. He says he loves me but has a connection with her. She and her husband were our best friends and business partners.
She is pg with twins. I have asked for NC. They still talk supposedly about business to end that. They are involved in every aspect of our lives and NC is impossible unless we move, which has severe complications as well. I don't want a divorce, but without his emotional support for me I don't think I can hang on. I hate this for my 3 children, but will they be happier if I am? Any suggestions?

Crews,

I'm sorry you are going through this. Keep reading and posting and hopefully you'll get insight as to what direction to move.

Gweni LMAO! I hear you. Like Lynn I kicked my H out immediately and filed for a D the next day. If he was on a fence I kicked him off of it with those actions. His exact words to me were when I realized I was going to lose you nothing and no one else mattered. It took me a while to forgive him almost a year to be exact but I'm 4 years in recovery. It hasn't been easy but I'm finally happy. I still trigger every now and then but we talk about it and for the most part he's really understanding.

I also support contact but like KT it didn't work because of exOW's actions I still feel bad about it. But I have to protect my kids I will not allow anyone's actions to hurt them.

Tee

How do you know when it is time to pull the trigger? How do you stay and hold on for 4 months or 6 months or whatever waiting for him to get off the fence? He shows me no emotions. He can't tell me how he feels about me. Only that he wants to want me. Is it time to go?