I'm completely new to discussion forums so I apologize if I don't get the "lingo" down. My situation is this...my H had an affair with my best friend now ex-friend (who is married) and she gave birth to a child on Aug 24. My H and I also had a baby born on Aug 1. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that the baby born on Aug 24 is my husbands. Her husband is aware of this as well. We all knew throughout the pregnancy that it was a strong possibility. Her husband and her have verbally agreed to let my H pay for a legal binding paternity test since her husband is listed as the father on the BC and to establish some sort of visitation/child support for this child however they wanted to wait until after the holidays. We all live in a small town where everybody knows everybody. They have a son that is my son's age and they are good friends who hang out together. My son is aware that his friend's "brother" is more than likely his half-brother but their children do not know. As far as I know the affair is over, it did continue throughout her pregnancy as well as mine and did continue after the births of both babies. I'm worried, though, that it will continue. How I survived my pregnancy throughout this mess is beyond me. I think I can handle the step-son situation but not sure if I can handle the fact that my husband will have a relationship with the OW for the rest of their lives due to the fact that they have a son together. Any advice?

arrg..... WOW... honey.... how horrid.........

How is this ex-friend of yours acting towards you, your husband, kids, etc????????

How is your husband acting now? Does he want to have a relationship with the child? How does he feel? Has he done anything to show/prove this affiar is OVER FOREVER? Is he doing what it takes to fix your marriage, etc?

How about the OW's husband???? Is he okay with his wife(OW) having to co-parent with your husband?????

I suppose some answers to these quetions would help out on the advice-giving !!!

Goodness... seems to me that MOVING would be the BEST solution to this mess... can you do that ? Is it possible?

I am at a loss-- to be treated that way by your husband and your best friend.. how are you doing at this point? Do you feel that your M can be saved, still, if your H and you have visitation?

((hugs))) Please write back with some more insight, please.

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

Thank you giovanna123 for your response. In order to answer your ?'s I must first say that my situation is "unique" and I'm not sure if anyone's been through it THIS way before. I'll start by saying that the affair was discovered in August 2003 while ow, her H, my H and myself were on vacation together. What a horrible vacation that was! OW was pregnant at that time w/my H child and she ended up aborting when we came back from vacation. Ow and I have had several conversations throughout the past year, some heartfelt, some civil, and some downright mean. OW's H and i have remained friends throughout all of this and have conversed on a regular basis until recently when I figured out that it was doing more harm than good b/c he was hearing her side, i was hearing my H side, and somewhere in the middle was the truth as to what was really happening. Anyway, I think if ow had her way the affair with my H would continue. Not sure if she's quite ready to give it up. My H definitely wants a relationship with the oc. He loves his kids and the thought of having a son living a few blocks away and not having anything to do with him kills him. i can understand that. He has shown me that he wants to work on our M and I do believe him now, however, I'm extremely leary because he's led me to believe in the past that he wanted to work on it, only to continue his affair behind my back. Trust is a big issue in our marriage, as I'm sure it is in every marriage that's discussed in this forum. I don't really know the true feelings of the OW's husband when it comes to the child. Everyone's feelings seem to change on a daily basis. I think he'd be tolerable of us visiting with the baby, and he even made the suggestion that him and I make the "exchange" b/c he doesn't feel comfortable with ow and my h being together at all. It's all really difficult because like I said, we all live in a small town, our kids play sports together, we see ow and her husband/kids almost every Saturday at the gym and i know it kills my h to see her w/the baby and to see her husband being "daddy" to the baby. We've considered moving but the issue of this oc is not going to go away. And we like the town we live in. My H and I grew up here, graduated at the same high school that our oldest son now attends and it's difficult to think of moving. There's more to this story that I'll bring up....my H had numerous affairs before this one that I found out about after this one broke wide open, and several of the women live in this town as well. They all know about what's going on, and they all know about each other. And of course I see those other women on a reg basis. It's very difficult for me. My H wants to change. He says over and over that he hates the way he is, that he hates it that he's done all of these things, he wants us to work on our M for us and for our kids, etc.etc.etc..

I do feel that our M can be saved, still, if we have visitation with the oc. I just don't know if H and OW can have a co-parent relationship only. It may just be too soon. H still has feelings for ow, still misses talking to her, has his moments, just like an alcoholic staring at a beer and not being able to drink it. Don't know if this will ever go away????

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I hate to be negative, but isn't it a BIG red flag when your husband has had "numerous affairs???" And he can SAY he hates the way he is until the cows come home (believe you me I have heard THAT one about a million times) but unitl he finds the self control to STOP making selfish choices then he will continue to lie to you and sleep with all the females in your town. Just like you, I have taken and taken the abuse from my H and he continued to do it beacause I KEPT TAKING IT. Basically he keeps doing this to you because you have not made him pay any deep consequences. I would say if he has a history of being a cheater then how could you ever honestly convince yourself that he will be faithful to you NOW??? Just because he SAYS he wants to change? How many times before has he said that and cheated again? Only thru some serious counseling will he ever have a slight chance to truly change. Have you guys done any counseling apart or together? I really feel for you, girl, and I hope I am not offending you by saying what I feel. I just got this confidence and I want to spread it around!!
(((((michele))))) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

H and I started counseling, first as a couple, then separate, and H also was seeing psychiatrist, for a while but then gave it all up. We realize we need more counseling but don't have extra $ for it right this minute. i have a question to any/all...what "rights" does my H have to pursue any visitation/relationship with oc? OW is married so her husband is, by law, the father b/c he is on birth cert. A legal paternity test has not been taken (it cost upwards of $800 and we don't have the $ for it right now) and the OW and her H may not agree to it even though they say now that they will. It's obvious the oc is my H's, just by looking at him.

MH, I have many thoughts for you but not much time to post right now. My situation is similar, but not exact.

What did the counselors recommend? What are you using for recovery now? (books, etc?)

If you cannot afford the paternity test or counseling, how can you afford the child-support that goe with visitation rights??

Why not just let the XOW's H raise this child as his own? It seems it would be easier on all the children, at least, and probably your marriage too.

I think your marriage CAN survive if your H is willing to REALLY change and commit... just what that entails varies by situation, and I can understand the conflicts in moving. Is he a sex addict? Does he know what's "caused" him to be a serial cheater?

Keep posting!
"J" in recovery 6y from H's A w/former close friend; have child of m. same age also; OC visitation begun this year

jenny, to answer your ?'s...it's been close to a year since we've seen the M counselor. At that time, the counselor was just trying to get the A to stop by recommending that H and OW stop all contact. Obviously that didn't work. Counselor also thought that H had a sex addiction and bipolar disorder so recommended he see psychiatrist. Psychiatrist basically said H didn't have either and that it was up to him to sort his stuff out and figure out what he wants. As far as recovery now is concerned, we are taking each other's feelings into great consideration and trying to improve the way we've lived. H believes there are a number of reasons for his behavior, childhood experiences, being forced to grow up at a young age (he was 18, I was 15 when our first child was born), differences in our marriage, etc.

Not sure how he thinks he can afford CS for the OC because we can barely afford the 3 we have, but like i said, i know how he is about his kids and i don't think the idea of the OW's H raising the child as his own is a possibility in my H's eyes. Guess H feels that we'll cross the bridge in regards to CS when/if we come to it.

Your story is a bit urking for me to read!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

'Forced to grow up' by having a baby @ such a young age? Were you 'forcing him to grow up' too when he was having SEX @ such a young age? Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!

And how could you possibly want to stay in a town, filled w/ other women he has had sex w/ just becuase you 'grew up' there. I would be gong crazy to get out of there like yesterday!

So you are willing to stay & live in a town where you can run into other women your H had sex w/ , while married to you, @ any time, like @ the grocery store or something? How awful!!!!!!

Your son knows he has a half-brother? This is absolutely crazy. What a mess.

So OW & your H got pg 2x, one she aborted & one she decided to have? How long has this A been going on?

Yes, it sounds as if your H still wants to continue the A & @ this point the only way for it to end is to END all C, anyway, anyhow.

That is the first step. How can you do that if you are still in close proximity to OW, as much as EVERY WEEKEND? This is absurd.

You don't deserve this! Stand up for yourself woman!

Stop being a doormat. You have a right to a responsible, faithful, monogomous marraige.

Do you have any health insurance becuase most ins. now comvers counsleing/therapy w/ only your co-pay amounts like a regular dr. visit.

******************
******************
@ this point your H has no legal rights to the child since OW is married & OWH is raising OC as his own. IF H were to try to pursue his rights..it could be done but it would be harder for him than for OWH to retain/gain his rights. Children born into the marriage are legally assumed to be a product OF the marriage so the burden of proof for paternity would be on H.

He does have a right to pursue that.

But ...since OW & H are still trying to somehow keep it together as well..........the BEST thing for this OC would be to leave well enough alone. Let OC be raised in an intact 2 parent family. If your H were to pursue some sort of custodial rights & visitation, that would also include CS, that is a given AND it would mean that OC is forever gonna be shipped between 2 homes, his & hers. That is not the ideal life for any child.

@ this point this OC has a chance @ a somewhat normal life.
**********************
**********************
Why do you want to continue to torture yourselves by continuing to live there & see OW all the time. OF COURSE the A will NOT end, w/ continuous C, any one can tell you that.

Do you realize how 'sure' H is of what he wants when there has been NC w/ OW, but his confusion gets stirred up when he sees her or has C w/ her?

This is a given fact....ask anyone who's WS has been in the 'fog'.

If they are not still having a physical A, then they might still be caught up in an Emotional A-which is still cheating.


Read everything you an here on this site, not just the forums. There are tons of useful information for marriages.

You can get through & survive this but I think some serious changes are gonna have to be made in your lives in order to get to that point.

Have you read any of the recommended books?
Surviving an Affair, After the Affair, His Needs, Her needs

sincerely,
kt

AMEN , kt!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I SO know what it is like to be the doormat and let you H walk all over you feelings and treat you like you are lower than dirt. Let me quote my dear friend SunnyD by saying "He can sing til he's blue in the face,it's how he flies that makes the difference"
I think all would be better if you get rid of this guy (I know, I know - easy for me to say) move to a new town, and start your life over for your kids. Do you want your children to see how their father repeatedly disrespects you by going with other women and think that this is the way a man should act?!?! And the town gossip - do you want your kids being subjected to that daily as you are? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It seems like the only way you are going to make your M work is to take the whole family and MOVE! Although truthfully if he is a serial cheater than he will find women anywhere you go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> The decision is not an easy one, but is completely up to you...YOU CAN MAKE A STAND FOR YOURSELF LIKE I DID. That doesn't mean that I don't still love my H, it just means I love my son and myself MORE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We are NOT ganging up on you Michelle... we think you NEED lots and lots of lumps over the head-- but our lumps are given with LOTS OF CONCERN AND LOVE!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm wondering, have you ever so much as left H or tried to kick him out... has he ever had ANY consequences for any of his actions?

Getting this woman pregnant twice.... and then having the same comfy situation waiting for him.... urg....

And also-- what is wrong with this Ow?? She WANTED to bust up both families by not protecting herself from pregnancy?? YES, your H participated and I take NO blame from him- but COME ON WOMEN DO NOT fail to use birth control when they DON'T WANNA GET PREGNANT!!!! That bugs the hell out of me especially that she was a "friend" and your kids are "friends"

Honey-- run as FAST as you can out of this TOWN of shame-- OUT OF THIS woman's CALLING AREA!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry for the rant but I feel mad as heck just like KT- she says it SO well!

We are here for you, though, no matter what the circumstances.. no matter how doormatty we may see you as being right now..... we have all been there but for those of us that are NOT anymore.. we HATE seeing this!!!!

keep in touch darling

MH, I would love for you to take a look at this web site
Kinds of Abuse

My 2 cents is alot of women get abused by the addictions of our partners. The thing for you to do is sort out YOU !!!!

Also to help you find out if he is indeed has a SF addiction read up on this site
Signs of a SF add.

You are a wonderful, carring person, deserving of RESPECT / LOVE / HAPPINESS!

These things will make you a better as a mother, friend and spouse.
We are here to help you get though this no matter what the outcome! Tough love is the best love sometimes. You need to think about YOU and your children and protect your family from further hurt and pain.
Hugs ((((MH))))
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> SunnyD

Michelle,

I too am pregnant while the OW is pregnant. She is due in just a few days. The question of how am I suppose to deal with the OW having a relationship with my H due to the OC for the next 18 years ran through and is still running through my head as the days go by. I've realized that (even though I want to just wake up) you have to take it day by day. If you worry too much about it, then the OW is winning because she is making you worry. I still struggle with that because I am still having ups and downs with it all. There are days where I think I have the strength of Atlas and then there are days I feel like a 2 year old who doesn't get their way. I have yet to encounter the OW so I think keeping a classy front for her will show her that she isn't getting to you. If you show her that you are upset, then she will use that against you. I'm assuming that is why she is pulling what she is pulling lately because she hasn't gotten a reaction from me. But just remember to keep your head high and be there for your child. If your H has stopped the A (I'm not sure if you are sure if it has stopped) then you need to confront him about. I don't know what I would if I thought it was still going....good luck and let me know if you ever need anything.....meganluvsmike2002@yahoo.com

YES YES YES

BEST reaction to all of this -- is NO REACTION TO OW.... oh that drove H's xow crazy.. I laughed at her when she tried to start pulling crap--and HA I showed her how little importance SHE had in any of this....

Good day to all of the strong women out there! I read your stories and I feel so sad for you. Told H just the other night that I feel like Renee Zellweger in Jerry McGuire when she finally ends up joining her sister's support session for divorcee women. What a sad, sad movie! Makes me cry everytime I watch it. Anyway, hope you all had a very safe and happy New Year. My resolution is to make sure this year is nothing like the past two! Anyway, to fill you all in, ironically enough, KT, I did run into one of the XOW in the grocery store just the other day! Usually when I see her I just flat out ignore her. She hasn't had the balls to confront me to discuss the situation, even though when I found out about her I sent her a civil e-mail discussing it and never received a response back, but there's no time in my day for her. Plus, I think she's afraid I'm gonna tell her H about the A she had w/mine. We were all friends too, and that XOW and the current OW (hopefully X) are good friends too. It is bizarre and I'm sure it is very urking for all to read. Try living it!! lol..kinda! This particular XOW's kids play ball w/mine as well so sometimes at the gym on Saturdays I have to deal with both of the women. I just hold my head high and hold my beautiful daughter in my arms. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Both my sons, ages 15 and 12, know about the OC. We felt they needed to know straight from us rather than hear it through the town gossip b/c it had already started. Those who knew about the A and then seeing the OC could definitely put two and two together. And as a matter of fact, my 12yo was talking about it to some of his friend's parents before we had a chance to talk to him so obviously he heard it elsewhere and i didnt' want any confusion in his head.

This latest affair lasted almost 2y. The first 9 months I was oblivious to it. We hung out with OW and her H on a constant basis, we were all constantly doing things together. It's hard for me b/c I doubt the friendship I had with OW. And I'm not a social bug by any means but hanging out w/her and her H I was able to come out of my shell and be myself and it was awesome. Alot of anger and resentment for that alone, let alone the rest of the mess.

H says he's ended C w/OW except for C about OC and he e-mails her and cc's me when he does make C but of course I can't trust him so I have no idea if he's calling her or text msging her or whatever.

Our insurance pd for MC last year on the basis that H had an addict/disorder but not sure if ins will pay it now b/c psych said there was no addict/disorder. Even still though, our copay is $25 per visit and with both of us going sep and together that adds up quick in a month. i know it's no excuse and i'm not trying to make an excuse for it. i know we need to go. we can't work this out ourselves.

Hurt, is the A w/your H and OW over? So sorry to hear you're going thru pg at the same time as well. Sickly enough, our OW once told my H that it was a shame that all this happened tghis way and that she was pg with his child and not her H's because she thought it'd be cool for her and I to be pg together and experience it together as best friends that we once were. I know, it's all just gross!!!! Well, now that I've put you all to sleep with the book I just wrote, I'll end by saying that I appreciate all the care and support that's going on here. You all are wonderful people!!!


KT-i haven't read books you suggested but I have frequented MB website for about 5 years now b/c "problems" in our marriage really surfaced around that time. Of course, I had no idea A's were happening but I knew something was wrong. Gio, H has moved out several times during the past 2 years. Last time was a couple of months ago and I ended up making an appt w/attorney and I think that got H's attention. I ended up cancelling appt and not going. OW is definitely a manipulater and very selfish and has been handed everything in life on a silver platter so in a sense she's nothing more than a spoiled brat. And a part of me thinks she got pg the second time 'cause she freaked out that I had just found out I was pg. How ironic is it that her and her H practice the rhythm method and had not gotten pg since the birth of their daughter almost 5 years ago, but she hooks up with my H and gets pregnant back to back. Makes you wonder. I'm sure people wonder about me too, since we weren't planning on having more children, our youngest child was 12 and then I ended up pg. Alot of factors went in to that and I truly believe my baby girl is a gift from God. I think she's truly helped this whole situation. And I finally got the daughter I always dreamed of having, so if one good thing came out of this whole messy situation, she was definitely it!

Sunnydale, thanks for the website links. When H first admitted to latest A, he too thought he was a SA. we went to the library and found book after book and he met upwards of 90% of the signs/symptoms. Why psychiatrist discredited all of this is beyond me. His psych went as far as to prescribe anti-depressant for H but gave him sample pack of Viagra b/c a side effect of med was lack of sexual drive. Ugh!!! Needless to say I keep track of how many pills are gone just to make sure he's not having a hayday with them. Only one's gone and he used it with me for fun. Too much info.??!! I think my H has a lot of demons to battle. It's up to me if I want to stay in for the fight. More times than not I do but some days I just feel like giving up.