I was reading another post in R and it was brought up that to truly move on with your life you need to forgive OW. I was told by a religious leader that I would need to forgive OW at some point.

Have any of you felt like you have forgiven OW? Or that you even needed to?

I think those of us with OW/OC may have a harder time with forgiveness than the general BS population. I am truly interested in opinions about this topic.

I am trying to just forget about her. Maybe that is not good enough. I am still working on forgiving my husband fully. I don't know when I might get around to OW.

I have drawn a tremendous amount of strength from all of you ladies.....especially all of you regular posters who are farther along in the process (KT, Giovanna, Sunny, etc.) Please don't go away! I am getting closer to where I might actually be able to help someone else now. You have all been such good examples. Thanks!!!!

The first time I heard anything about me needing to forgive XOW I almost lost it. Later I came to realize that me staying angry at her (and H) was detrimental to me and my relationship w/ H. It's easier to forgive H because you love him even though he betrayed you. In my case I hated XOW from the start and always felt she was after H. (I guess I was right.) But, like I said, all that anger was only hurting myself and making me bitter. I have not completely forgiven either one of them, but H is a little easier. I do pray everyday for me to be able to forgive both of them (XOW current shenanigans make it difficult, but I'm still praying!), I pray that we all make the decisions that are best for the OC, and for my future baby. I pray for my relationship w/ H and even that I can begin to understand XOW and her motives. I would like to have a better relationship w/ her for OC's sake. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm working on it.

It is hard to forgive, I still havent after 3 years, Dont know how are somebody does so much to hurt you.
I know it's best to forgive, But Dont know how, wish I could, my life would probably go smoother.
good luck

I have actually forgiven her,it took at lot of prayer, and God to get me to that point, and getting there took a good while.

It took me a very long time, repeatedly reading what forgiveness *is*... and two years of no-contact helped!

Forgiveness as in live and let live, as in I don't think much about "you"/xow anymore (hate is not the opposite of love--indifference is!!), and...

My feeling about XOW after 6y is like what Jesus told the adulterous woman in the Bible: "Go forth and sin no more" (or amend your life--pick a rendition). I release whatever is mine to let go of, as in the Our Father prayer: "forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us...". I am not sinless myself. I will treat xow with dignity and expect the same.

(And mind you xow was a close "friend"--ha!--prior to/during A, so my resentment was HUGE. We will not be "friends" again though I think she wants to be.)

Congradulations on your progress!!

J.
visitation begun 2004!
m.18y to my one-and-only
3 kids
6yo OC

I do know that to forgive the grievance hurts that have been inflicted is not possible on my own. I can only go so far and Christ will help with the rest.

I have realized that I do not want to forgive OW yet. I guess I want to keep some of the anger and disgust for her. I don't know why yet. Maybe when we are done with the CS issues and there are no more suprises from her.....if that really happens.

I also will have to at some point forgive my in-laws who wanted my H to leave me and the family for their own purposes. The began a very involved relationship with OW before OC was born and said horrible, disgusting lies about me to her. Then spent a month with her helping with the OC. They live very far from her and stayed with a friend to be with her.

They then disowned my H for wanting to keep his family intact and wrote him a nasty e-mail saying goodbye forever type stuff. My MIL has since started to try getting back involved with H and wants to see/talk to my kids. H has been great! He was very hurt by his parents abandonment of him for OW. He has been acting as a sentinal, protecting me and our children from his parents until they make it right with him and ME!

They claim they did nothing to either of us and they were wronged. I don't want to forgive them either......yet. Their betrayal of me after 20 years of kindness is almost worst than OW! I don't even know her and have never seen her! My in-laws have been part of my life for so long and we have gotten along fine, although we are very different. For them to make up all the lies about me and laughing about me and what happened to me, including having cancer (which they never even called me!), is almost more than I can deal with! They told OW that I had Munchousens (sp?) disease! It's a disorder where someone purposely makes their children sick so they feel needed or something like that. And that I was a horrible mother, bad cook, bad wife, mean, etc. These are the types of things you would think your WH would say, but he didn't. He stuck up for me.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that people are suceeding in the forgiveness process. I know that I will have to work on it and it will take a long time. I need to forgive H (mostly have! Yeah!), OW and MIL/FIL. Long list. Only through Christ!

LBelle,
what your in-laws did is truly ATROcious!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Several times I've heard of it happening, and the betrayal is stunning every time. Do these people lose their minds? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (Feel the same way about xow. How do you look someone in the face while destroying their life?)

Double betrayal gives us more grief to recover from, and certainly more work to forgive!

Want to add that forgiveness doesn't mean I *never* have angry feelings or other negative feelings @the A/OC/xow/H, because triggers can happen for a lifetime... but when it happens, I know it's temporary and I'll be back to normal shortly. That's a relief after 2+ years of obsessive thinking about it.

FORGIVENESS is like GRIEF. There's stages that need to be worked through, and even after you've reached resolution, you will still sometimes think of that loss with sadness or anger, on anniversary dates or when triggered.

Through Christ our Lord,
J

Thanks for your input Jenny! I do need to remember what forgiveness is and isn't. Even if I was to forgive my in-laws and let them talk to my kids, it doesn't mean that I have to have a relationship with them. Or at least not the way that it was. I don't even think my H wants that. I am glad for your helpful words. I will keep working on it.

LBelle,
I'm so happy when I can help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I and H have to talk to & see xow to arrange visitation schedule, drop-off/p-u, medical, etc. H and I keep things "light"& friendly, stick to business, and don't bring up the past.

XOW (even though married) acts like she wants to be "friends" now that we're back in town. She called H at work and H told her to quit. I've turned down invitations to her house and to OC's grandparents. We are not and canNOT be "friends"!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> DUH

I'm trying to say we can act civilized without trusting or loving people who've betrayed us. Kwim?

If xow does not respect our boundaries, then we'll reduce contact until OC is old enough to contact us on her own.

You could do something similar with your in-laws. Respect the rules or you can't see us. That's very forgiving and reasonable!!

God be with you,
J

<small>[ January 09, 2005, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>

Hi everyone. In reading your responses on forgiving OW I have a question for anyone who wants to answer. Let me briefly state that I HAD forgiven OW (who happened to be my best friend at one time)only to be left a mockery because she was STIll screwing around w/my H, so it's come to the point now that anytime I see her in town I want to absolutely ring her neck. We are getting ready to go through the paternity testing and then visitation will start (hopefully) with the OC and I just don't know how to get past the anger and betrayal that she gave me in order to be civil with her when we have to meet to get the baby from her. H and I talked about this last night and he thought he was making me feel better by saying to me "Doesn't it make you feel better knowing that you have what she wants?" meaning him of course. That doesn't make me feel any better and I told him that. I made it a point to him that he was never "hers" to begin with, that I've been his wife for 13 years and have "had" him for 13 years. Plus, it almost sounded like an egotistical statement coming out of his mouth. Please tell me if I'm wrong in looking at it this way. Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Just need to know how I can get past the anger for her in order to be civil. Please advise. Thank you!!!!

LB. I will tell you that the greatest gift that God has given me is the gift of forgivness. Its not an easy thing to task. You cant just wake up one day and say OK I forgive eveyone that has done me wrong and life will be great. It doesn't happen over night. It has taken me 2 bible studies w/ a support group in order to get where I am now. Please look at this series
Getting alone w/ others

Forgiveness to me is NOT selective! If you forgive your H then in order for your M and this situation to be laid to rest, you will have to forgive the OW.

Things to me that distroy a person from being all they can be and all God intended them to be are
anger, hate, greed, spite, Jealousy.

In order for you to have the relationship you need or want w/ Christ. You will have to forgive. Not being able to puts a wedge between you relationship w/ him. And you will see this if you get involved w/ some bibles studies.

I felt that I wanted my relationship w/ God not to be hendered by ANYONE. Including OW or H! no one to me, is worth Christ weeping for me! He has given me free will but it is up to me to use it in the way that pleases him.

ALso look here for some answers on forgiveness.
Exploring faith - forgiveness

I must say this is not easy and something that I have to work on daily! I hope this helps.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Michele,
I think it's pretty typical for men to just want us to be "over it" and to help "fix it" by these sayings... Yea, I'd be annoyed too, esp. if he kept saying it. But he probably means well (if he isn't egotistical about himself generally! lol)

It's like the stupid things people say when we lose a loved one, trying to "make it better" (God wanted them more, you can have another kid, etc.) when you really want sympathy or remorse for your pain. You're still grieving and not ready to "be all better"!!

It takes time and working through the stages. H still owes you sympathy and understanding, since he got you guys into this mess! Just don't rub his nose in it.

You could explain to your H what you'd like to hear and how it helps you.

I don't know how you can be civil to xow, given your fresh anger, except to preserve your OWN dignity--that's important!
Can you guys use a third party for drop-offs/pick-ups? That way H doesn't have to be alone w/xow and you don't have to see her. Or someone you trust to go WITH your H?

Just some thoughts.
Best wishes to you,
J

Sunny

You are so right! It is hard to forgive. I dont know if I have truly forgiven OW. I think I have forgiven H but its only been 7 months. It takes time. You can not forgive overnight. It just does not happen that way/

Jenny, thanks for the words. It makes sense hearing it from someone else! Anyway, it was suggested by OW's H (yes she is married also) that him and I do the pick up/drop off of the baby but my H shunned that idea. He despises OW's H now (they were best friends as well) and I think he just wants to make his life as miserable as it could possibly be, even though he's already done a pretty good job of it, and since it was OW H's suggestion my H won't go for it. There definitely won't be any one on one contact between H and OW, I can guarantee that one. Guess I'll just suck it up and deal with her. It's not like she's going to be out of my life anytime soon. She had mentioned to my H at one point in time that she was afraid I'd be mean to her baby because of the circumstances and that was one reason why she didn't want to go thru w/paternity testing. She's warped!

Wow Michele, they read off the same sheet music!

Xow said several times to H that she was afraid I'd be mean to OC; if you knew me and the whole history, you'd know that's looney! It must be xows was of distancing us (wives) in their own MINDS. Yet she was the one who initiated visitation--go figure~

Actually, you and her H doing the drop-offs sounds really good, except that the 4 of you were all friends, which is so messy and emotional. I know it's really different for me to know SOOO much about xow compared to an xow who is a stranger.

Our xow re-married and part of me just wishes stepdad had adopted her and given ALL of us a normal life. Like you, I've got a child same age as OC, so everyone can tell the OC is from an affair. It's tough at times, but it's not as hard as it once was... kwim? Time heals and life goes on.

Best wishes,
J

OW behavior----->A w/ my H, honestly does NOT bother me anymore.

IT was her behavior towards me & my children that I take issue w/. I am working on getting over it, forgiving her, moving on, letting go---whatever you want to call it.

Mostly I try to not think about it, which for me is like a conscious effort of forgiveness.

I can think of other people who have wronged me in my life that when I think about thier abuses, I 'feel' absolutely nothing. My emotions are not 'stirred up'. But frankly I can CHOOSE to no longer have them in my life & I have........but that is usually NOT the case w/ OW w/OC now is it?

See how that works?

salt on the wound........picking a scab........OW w/ OC IN your life............pretty much all the same for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
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In the mean-time.....this is what I do.....

CHOOSING everyday to NOT dwell on or think about OW & her idiocy.

Praying FOR OC EVERYDAY...........& sometimes for OW. God knows my heart & my struggles.

HE knows the nightmares I have @ least once a month of OW & OC........

Eventually........all will be well w/ my soul.


xoxoxoxoxoxoxxoxoxo
kt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Michele Hall:
<strong> H and I talked about this last night and he thought he was making me feel better by saying to me "Doesn't it make you feel better knowing that you have what she wants?" meaning him of course. That doesn't make me feel any better and I told him that. I made it a point to him that he was never "hers" to begin with, that I've been his wife for 13 years and have "had" him for 13 years. Plus, it almost sounded like an egotistical statement coming out of his mouth. Please tell me if I'm wrong in looking at it this way. Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Just need to know how I can get past the anger for her in order to be civil. Please advise. Thank you!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michele yes it does....but I'm figuring out that most men have that trait.......I'm not sure why God put that gene in most men........I would say all men, but there could be one or two without it...hmmmmmm

I think almost all OW think that the the Wife is going to hurt their child. My OW is/was the same way.

Keeping it in mind that the OW have heard NOTHING but the BAD stuff about us? I mean what would you think. When the guys get busted, what do they do? Turn it around and OW is a crack hoe and this and that and dont know if its mine? All the bad stuff they can say about the OW is to us? And if it is a one night stand, they we dont know them and they dont know us? Would you let a stranger watch your baby? I wouldn't! Not taking up for any OW using that as a pawn in a game that may play, but it could be a liable reason for (some) of their/ our concerns. I can / will show compassion to people who want to move on and improve their lives after making mistakes in them.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sunnydale:
<strong> Keeping it in mind that the OW have heard NOTHING but the BAD stuff about us? I mean what would you think. When the guys get busted, what do they do? Turn it around and OW is a crack hoe and this and that and dont know if its mine? All the bad stuff they can say about the OW is to us? And if it is a one night stand, they we dont know them and they dont know us? Would you let a stranger watch your baby? I wouldn't! Not taking up for any OW using that as a pawn in a game that may play, but it could be a liable reason for (some) of their/ our concerns. I can / will show compassion to people who want to move on and improve their lives after making mistakes in them.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't buy/fall for that one sunnyd.

I understand that SOME ow may have heard bad stuff about us but if that is the case, it seems that it is usually about BW beign bad wives not bad mothers.

And as far as giving my child to 'strangers'................well the DAD is NOT a stranger & will be right there.

PLUS................many women today, more-so single moms, put their children in daycare as infants even. Yep, the mom might go & see how clean the center or home is but the fact of the matter IS that the workers are STILL strangers...........you don't really know them & you surely can't know them from a few visits/hours of supervision.

Soooo...if you don't know the man you are sleeping w/ that well (to leave your child w/ them) then how can you decide it is a GOOD idea to have HIS baby that he has EVERY right to & every right to introduce his child to anyone he wants.

So no, sunny, I don't feel any sympathy for that aspect of it.

I don't want my 'babies' being raised by strangers so I made sure I was married to their dad AND we raise them ourselves---------they are not in any daycare, & they only get watched, occasionally (date nights <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), by grandparents.

See how that works?

I do agree w/ taking things slow @ first....that can work if everyone agrees.....but I don't think it is absolutely necessary if there is C from birth.

And of course...this is only MY opinion.

(coming from the girl who can't even be trusted w/ candles! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

xoxoxoxoxoxxoxoxoxoxxoxoxoxo
kt

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PS: what happened to the topic of forgiving OW-I really wanted to discuss/explore that idea further & was interested in reading what everyone's thoughts on that were........