I have posted something similar to this on GQ with little response, so I thought I would try here.

I haven't posted much here for a while, so let me catch you all up.

OC was born in Sept. At this time, H and I were getting closer, but he had not moved home (separated since 2/04). He had not been in contact with OW much, but when OC was born, that of course, changed. He went to see OC the day she was born at the hospital and continued to visit at OW's house. Well as OW became more civil to him, he once again became confused. Since then, OW has used manipulation, threats, etc. to keep her claws into H. I am really at the point, that I think I need to move on - only out of frustration and lack of effort by H. However, in talking with my H lately, this is what I am hearing:

I don't deserve to come home to my family.

I am not worthy...

I am too consumed with guilty.

I have ruin everything, and it can't be fixed.

It would be better for everyone if I just stayed away.

I don't trust myself not to do it again.

etc... You get the idea.


My questions to FWS's, is this a normal stage. I really think he wants to be home, but he just has not forgiven himself and is not dealing with this mess he has made. I continue to be supportive and encouraging to him - telling him that I still love him and that we can work through this.

Is there anything I can do to help him through these feelings? Or is this just something he has to do himself?

I get so frustrated, because he has been gone for nearly a year. He basically is trying to keep OW happy so he can see OC. He says he only talks to her once a week to see when he can pick up OC and sees her only for PU/DO. He has not done a DNA test or set up CS or visits legally yet. When these subjects are discussed w/ OW, she freaks. She has threatened that if he comes home, she will do her best to keep OC from him. I keep stressing to him that if it is done legally, she looses control and it will not be a problem.

I have kinda strayed from my original questions though. What can I do to help him through this guilt? I so very much want to save my marriage and am just so frustrated because he has done little to work on that. I think he needs to work on his issues first, but I cannot seem to get him into IC. Is there hope? Will he eventually work through this? And what can I do to help?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - from anyone!

Thanks!

This is just MHO, if your H has been gone a year and done little to help save your marriage, then he has already made a choice and his choice is pro OW and anti-marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My H fed me all of the lines you're getting, but I got them before I kicked him out. After I made him leave it took less than three months (and the threat of divorce) for him to come back and devote his life to our marriage and children.

If you have decided to continue to try to save your marriage you need his cooperation. It takes two to make a marriage work.

Have you tried marriage counseling? If not, it may be wise. I would also suggest individual counseling for both of you. You need to lay out the rules of reconciliation (no contact with OW/OC without you present, DNA test and court-ordered visitation/custody, whatever will make you feel secure). But, from your post it doesn't sound like your H wants to reconcile, he's riding the fence. If he did want to save the marriage, he'd have done something more by now.

My H rode the fence for several months while we were working "Plan A", it took "Plan B" to get him to choose.

I know this is hard and painful, but what you might want to try doing is filing for a legal separation. This gives you and your H 90 days to decide what to do. This gives your H a deadline.And if he hasn't decided at the end of ninety days, file for divorce. You can always go back and drop the motion, but it may help him realize the hard consequences of his behavior.

You sound like a really sweet person, but as my therapist said "Girl, you need to stop twisting yourself up into a pretzel to make your H's life easier! What about YOUR life?!"

I agree, take the attention off of your H and focus that attention on yourself. And give him an ultimatum (and the deadline) - take control of the situation!

You've got to look out for you now! I hope this post doesn't upset you, these things worked for me and it took a lot of advice from wiser BSs over many months before I realized they were right. I was basically giving my H permission to continue the EA/PA by remaining passive and supportive to him. Finally, I had to stop letting him call the shots. It was the paperwork for the divorce that really snapped him back to reality. He's been faithful and loyal for three years now, even with contact with OC and occasionally OW.

I hope this helps, I'm sorry for your pain. Keep your chin up and remember to pamper yourself - you deserve it!

T

Thanks T for your response. I appreciate your opinions, but I am not ready to give up yet - been close at times- but H actually seems to be putting some thought into how to handle things.

I guess what I was looking for was some input from some FWS's on if these are typical thoughts and feels they experienced and if there was anything their BS's could have done to help them out.

If there is something I can do to reach him, then I want to try. If I need to backoff and let him handle his feelings on his own, I want to know that too. Just looking for advice from someone who has been there.

<small>[ January 17, 2005, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: KrisM ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My questions to FWS's, is this a normal stage. I really think he wants to be home, but he just has not forgiven himself and is not dealing with this mess he has made. I continue to be supportive and encouraging to him - telling him that I still love him and that we can work through this.

Is there anything I can do to help him through these feelings? Or is this just something he has to do himself?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone and every situation is different, so who's to say exactly what "normal" is. That being said, I'm going to be very blunt. I think your H's excuses are a bunch of Bull$h*t. If he really wanted to be home, he'd BE home.

You have made it more than clear you are willing, ready, and able to forgive and reconcile. From what I've read Kris, you have been pretty good at not LB'g. You've put the ball in his court, letting him know where you stand, and after ONE whole year, he's not made a decision. Actually, I shouldn't say that. He has made a decision. He's made a decision to continue to live two lives. I'm not saying he's still having an A, (although it is a possibility), but I am saying, what is obvious, and that is, he hasn't committed to the M. He continues to leave you hanging, and he knows exactly how to do it too, and how to get away with it...by playing on your heartstrings. Saying he has issues trying to forgive himself--B!S! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> If YOU can forgive him, trust me, in time HE can forgive himself, BUT he doesn't need to live in a separate apartment to do so! He can work through all his issues at home--if home is where he wants to be. That's just the way I see it.

As a FWS I'm only an expert on my own situation. But for some reason, I get really pissed off at these other (F)WS!! I get mad that they play off the fact that their BS is patient, and willing to wait and put up with a fair amount of crap for an indefinite amount of time.

I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure my H would NOT have put up with me if I dilly-dallied around this long after D-day.

I don't get why some WS think they should be entitled to time away from home to go through THEIR stages. GMAB!

I'm sorry to be so grumpy today Kris. I just feel angry for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I know that is of absolutely NO help to you though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> You already know I'm a big advocate for Plan B. Although it's been stretched out too long, I believe you've done a good Plan A--which is critical if Plan B is to have hope. I could kiss you for what you wrote in Sisters, regarding Plan B. Usually we hear WHY someone CAN'T do it. You were very honest in saying why you DON'T want to do it. I think if more BW examined their reasons for not doing it, they'd find it's not that they CAN'T, but that they DON'T want to, because it could mean the end for their M.

Kris, how long do you think you can go on with a H who hasn't lived under your roof in over a year, and who hasn't committed to the M? How long are you willing to put your life on hold? It may seem like the ball is in his court, but really it's in yours, by default if nothing else, because he's failed to take any REAL, meaningful step toward reconcilliation nor ending the M. Don't fear the outcome of Plan B, honey. It will at least be an outcome, instead of this limbo-land you and your children are living in now. Honestly, I think he wants to remain married, or he would've D already. I think he's just being a garden variety cake eater. He needs to know the cake's about all gone now, time to grow up and make a decision about which life he's going to live.

((((((((((KRIS))))))))))

~ad

Thanks ad! I think I needed to hear that. Believe me, whenever I hear one of these new excuses - that is exactly what I tell him - that it is just another lame excuse. But like you said, I have let him get away with it for far too long - mostly out of fear. I guess I was just hoping there would be something else that someone could suggest. Thanks - you have given me lots to think about!!

I think one huge issue for us right now is the DNA test. He is so sure OC is his that he does not see a need to do it. I will not tell our kids about the OC until the test is done. Therefore, I think part of it is that he feels the only way to keep seeing the OC is to stay in the apartment. Now who is making the lame excuses!! At least he is no longer visiting OC at OW's house. All visits are at the apartment - so I have been told!?!

Thanks again! Talk to you later!!

Call a laywer and get child support and spousal maint. set up for you and your family. This will let him know that you are serious here. That while he made a mess of things, he still can't expect everyone to live their lives on hold. It will also make sure that your children get to the money first, hence a larger share.

I guess my advice would be to tell him flat out that you are willing to take him back and work on the marriage and then state what your needs pertaining to oc are. Then be firm. He has had more then enough time here. If he so much as starts on his pity parade, tell him you know how bad he must feel, but it is time for action. Either he wants his family or not.

But first and foremost, get yourself financially protected. Make sure you are 100% knowledgeable about family finances, etc. Plan for the worse and hope for the best.

I agree with Autumn 100% also. That was excellent advice.

Hi Kris,

I haven't posted n quite sometime on any site, but have been missing you girls terribly. I am sorry to hear of your pain with H, but I clearly know what the suffering feels like. I know you don't really want to go to the next step, but I think it is time honey! His indecisive attitude is what keeps you hanging on, but on the other hand it shoule be the thing that makes the decision for you.

He has made no move to come home and work 100% on the two of you without interuption from OW/OC. He is telling you what he thinks will keep you holding on. I know you might be tired of hearing it, but it is time for you to get on with your life. You have been waiting in limbo long enough it is time to stand up and walk!!

I wish you much happiness in your life and hope that you can get the courage to stand up and walk alone without him!!

Love Ya,

JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />