</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by giovanna123:
<strong>

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<small>[ January 23, 2005, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Gardenbunny,

Yes, I was crazy to believe the words that spewed from xMM's mouth- but that's why they're X MM and we are X OW's.

We saw the light! LOL!

As gardenbunny says, an ex-ow is no longer being stupid. But when you are OW and you are proud of it or love to revel in it- that is stupid, insecure, needy and just plain evil.
I have great respect for people who turn their lives around. Every human on earth does stupid things- BS, WS OW alike- it is who learns the lessons and does something about it that matters.

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hurt5-04:
<strong> um, i never said that her sleeping with my H had anything to do with how she is raising the baby. And I didn't forget to finish my sentence. I was just leaving it open in regards to that all OW's tend to be pretty stupid. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very nice Hurt, and I thought I knew you better than that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> My mistake.

I'm sorry to all those OW's or XOW's but if you are saying that you weren't acting stupid at the time of engaging in *****ing around with a married man, then I think maybe your way of thinking is a little off. Let me REPHRASE myself for all those that take SUCH offense to a simple statement of truth. A marriage is TWO PEOPLE. It isn't a bond that allows for ANOTHER PERSON to come into and RUIN EVERYTHING. I am NOT saying my H isn't stupid because he was. Maybe instead of using stupid I should use words or phrases as lacking morals, unbelievable selfish, or lacking self esteem to be unable to go out and find an UNMARRIED MAN. I'm sure this agrument could go on forever while it keeps going back and forth with those OW's that are still bitter they lost their MM and with the BW's who feel that OW's aren't in their right minds.
As for my situation, let me say that my H's XOW is stupid. She still claims her love for my H even though she knows there is no chance. HOW MANY MEN are in the WORLD yet she and other bitter OW's who can't let go continue to fight for something that is USELESS?
This is going to piss a lot of people off I'm sure but OW's don't understand ONE OUNCE of what I or ANY OTHER BW deal with. Even those having to deal with the OW's that are pathetic enough to get pregnant....Goodness gracious. If those want to continue on here to make excuses and explain themselves of WHY they felt necessary to play with fire (a marriage that WAS NOT THEIRS) then GO AHEAD but I see it as if that is how you are going to be, then you will get burned and will have to deal with all those people that were raised CORRECTLY and made the RIGHT decisons not to mess with fire.

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong> As gardenbunny says, an ex-ow is no longer being stupid. But when you are OW and you are proud of it or love to revel in it- that is stupid, insecure, needy and just plain evil.
I have great respect for people like autumnday who turn their lives around. Every human on earth does stupid things- BS, WS OW alike- it is who learns the lessons and does something about it that matters. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">adgirl excatly. But it's hard to see that a xow could ever change her life around as her morals are just over the top in the first place. It's common for the mm to change and become a great person from this, but the xow has no remorse, or feelings of what has happened and tried to trap the mm by keeping the baby. This is an old post of sorts. We've been round and round with it. It's amazing though.........I'm probally more of a strick mother than most out there because I don't have there father around. Rountine and sturcture is very important to me. Not that I don't spoil my kids....but I'm pretty darn strick. Ask them they'll tell you. I also admit to them when I screw up and let them see me make it right. People are going to screw up no matter who they are. But it's what you do with it and learn from it that is even more important. You can't take away the past....you can only change the present and future. If you continue to dweal on the past and look at all the mistakes and not see what people do to change or make a mends etc., then your not only allowing yourself not to grow and heal from things in life (and just not affairs, everything) and you'll become stagmit and bitter. Hurt has every right to vent here....this is her place to do it. I feel she was purposly being mean towards all and I pointed that out hopefully in a tactful way that she was generalizing. I have many conversations with hurt on another board and felt very bad for her that she was going through. I was just very shocked that came out of her mouth from past conversations with her.
edit to add......bon bons.......they are vanilla icecream balls covered with hard choc. You find them at the movie theatre. I guess the stores too. They are yummy with the right brand you buy....and yes peg bundy ate those <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

Well my ex's -ow was married too so they were both acting stupid. She even left her son for my ex. BUT if she changed her life around and was remorseful and did something to get her act together, I would be thrilled. She is in my prayers because I want her life to not be wasted. That's what stupid is- wasting life by doing dumb things and continuing. How sad and pitiful. But miracles happen every day- people can change- and if they ask God to change their heart and lives- He will.
Best of luck to you marysway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A marriage is TWO PEOPLE. It isn't a bond that allows for ANOTHER PERSON to come into and RUIN EVERYTHING. I am NOT saying my H isn't stupid because he was</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hurt, I advocate nothing for ANY OW who was simply dumped and NOW is FREE OF GUILT.. or an OW who is a PRESENT OW.

I challenge you to remember that the xow had NO special powers over your H. Do not give the ow that much power!!!! She was accepted into the marriage by our H's. It is an unhealthy road for you, Hurt, to believe that this woman was that powerful. If it was not her-- it would have been someone else. Forget about your anger towards OW-- forget HER!!!

You said yourself-- the marriage is between YOU AND H NOW! Keep her OUT of your marriage by keeping her at BAY AND OUT OF YOUR MIND -- if she has no power over your mind you will HEAL! The best revenge for your vengence towards OW is to POOF HER A** Hurt!!

I challenge you to take this advice as kind and loving, and please understand I am on your side! I never allowed the xow to bother me because I knew how wonderful I was-- and how sorry she was- and I proved that to H. Our actions of SQUARING up our shoulders.... holding our head high..... putting a wiggle in our a**--- and mustering up the confidence to SHOW H that you REALIZE that you are ALL THAT and she is NOT!!!!

Your H was as guitly as the OW- and owed you your vows.... BUT the difference is that like my H-- he chased me down and became finally humbled by the strength and shine that I regained-- he wanted A WOMAN LIKE HE HAD-- NOT OW! If the xow in your life---- or any xow is ridiculous and filled w/false entitlement and/or after your H-- then she is stupid, sure! So let her live in her miserable version of life and love and normalcy-- let her stupidity fuel you to be proud of YOU!!

And any PERSON, not even OW who is remorseful, smart enough to change, make life better, etc-- does deserve what any human does--- love, understand and forgiveness. All the ladies that come here w/a good spirit, a brain, and a heart- they deserve our hand of help- just as WE would want our H to have this forgiveness and hand extended to HIM if HE changed.

The ideas above WILL keep you healthy and thriving!!! I have lived it!!!

Hurt, I know how you feel- and I know you would respect people as they deserve respect!

I have respect for those that respect me. I don't however respect those that are going to overly analyze such things. If I must retort my last comment on all OW's being stupid, then I do. The XOW in my situation is and I'm sure there are many BW's that will agree that their's are stupid as well. I will not however assume all are stupid if those that feel their ow's aren't. Then that's great. I also did not say my H was not to blame. I take everyone's post as advice and yes, sometimes I don't agree. I am not someone who goes out of my way to hurt others because that it pointless.
As for the OW in my situation, yes, it still bothers me. Some of you say that we shouldn't let it effect us like that but then maybe I have yet to come to that moment in my life where it won't. With OC being born, it opened up a lot of freshly healing wounds and I'm sure many of you would agree that when your OC was born, it wasn't easy.
Therefore, I am sorry if I offended anyone yet my outlook on our OW and some others I've read about still shows me that those particular people are stupid and ridiculous.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe instead of using stupid I should use words or phrases as lacking morals, unbelievable selfish, or lacking self esteem to be unable to go out and find an UNMARRIED MAN. I'm sure this agrument could go on forever while it keeps going back and forth with those OW's that are still bitter they lost their MM and with the BW's who feel that OW's aren't in their right minds.
As for my situation, let me say that my H's XOW is stupid. She still claims her love for my H even though she knows there is no chance. HOW MANY MEN are in the WORLD yet she and other bitter OW's who can't let go continue to fight for something that is USELESS?
This is going to piss a lot of people off I'm sure but OW's don't understand ONE OUNCE of what I or ANY OTHER BW deal with. Even those having to deal with the OW's that are pathetic enough to get pregnant....Goodness gracious. If those want to continue on here to make excuses and explain themselves of WHY they felt necessary to play with fire (a marriage that WAS NOT THEIRS) then GO AHEAD but I see it as if that is how you are going to be, then you will get burned and will have to deal with all those people that were raised CORRECTLY and made the RIGHT decisons not to mess with fire.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HURT' Amen! ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> you go girl!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hurt5-04:
<strong> I have respect for those that respect me. I don't however respect those that are going to overly analyze such things. If I must retort my last comment on all OW's being stupid, then I do. The XOW in my situation is and I'm sure there are many BW's that will agree that their's are stupid as well. I will not however assume all are stupid if those that feel their ow's aren't. Then that's great. I also did not say my H was not to blame. I take everyone's post as advice and yes, sometimes I don't agree. I am not someone who goes out of my way to hurt others because that it pointless.
As for the OW in my situation, yes, it still bothers me. Some of you say that we shouldn't let it effect us like that but then maybe I have yet to come to that moment in my life where it won't. With OC being born, it opened up a lot of freshly healing wounds and I'm sure many of you would agree that when your OC was born, it wasn't easy.
Therefore, I am sorry if I offended anyone yet my outlook on our OW and some others I've read about still shows me that those particular people are stupid and ridiculous. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hrut I won't address this all in order but of course it still hurts you. I will give you that and you have every right to be hurt....and I can just imagine how you felt the day the baby was born. I'm sure it brought up all kinds of wounds and triggers. And really you were pretty new to it when she did have the baby. So there is no need to apology for that. As far as respect goes, I don't feel I've ever disprescted you ever. I also have learned in the last year that respect is what some what to call it and others don't call it. I know that made no sense, but maybe you understood it. I don't agree with everything that you think or feel and vise a versa, but I learned to know hurt as you and know you as I think you do.....and for that we can agree to disagree. Everyone does what they need to do for there own reasons. We all have to live with what we do. No matter if it's taking a different job to things like this. Your smart woman and I know with time your going to be fine. And to be honest with you it did insult me what you said, as I felt you were generalizing, but this is more your board than mine. Yes I'm a member, but I also am on the other side of the fence trying to make my way through all this mess too. I know what i did and how it affected everyone. I know I had to do what was right for my family as xmm did too. That does not mean however that I will forever wear the title and be penalized for my past actions. I have worked my butt off to work on me while raising a family and working and keeping up house. It's not ideal to most here, but it's the best I've got with what I've got and my kids are doing pretty darn good because of it. They are better off then alot of others. I hope that one day you can see that not all ow are mean and stupid. They just made a stupid mistake with MM and all are having to do what needs to be done to get on with there lives. Okay.........off my soapbox now! Where the heck are those bon bons????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

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<small>[ January 23, 2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Hurt5-04 ]</small>

Hurt- you are doing, actually, REMARKEBLY well for how fresh this is-- oh BELIEVE me I have much respect ... you ARE gona make it !

I COMPLETELY understand you- feel you-- I do NOT think it is even reasonable- if at all possible- right now to "forget" about OW-- its just something you keep telling yourself and trying to live over and over---- and then Hurt one day-- its AMAZING-- you ARE TRULY living it-- and ENJOYING life again... you are all the sudden worried about REGULAR things AGAIN!!

You are going to be blessed and rewarded - you are the solider I speak of in the last big OW ridden post -- LOL!

I minimize NOTHING of your journey, your plight-- I consider myself ONE year into recovery to be JUST LEARNING myself!! And I'm ONLY sharing my view from the place you will be in soon... !

((( Hurt )))) We need to start a new thread-- something more poositive ! LOL Goodnight all.

Cor , as for morals JEEZ.........what was wrong w/ your H's morals? It's a rhetorical question, no need for a nasty reply. It's easier to believe all OW are the same but they're not.

Cordelia

Please ignore Lonely... she doesn't get the point. I suspect she never will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It just more edvidence how low some these STOW will go. Its never them..NEVER. They were brain washed... the poor souls.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just imagine..they are raising children...

My heart goes out to those children..their own mothers...screwed them over. They purposely put their own children in jeopardy... they deny their own children of life with both mother and father in the home.

And I can't find it in me to respect anybody that would do that to their own child nor do they have any concious about screwing over another family.

Its pathetic.

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Hurt you are doing remarkable. Stay strong and healthy...

I was thrilled for you, it sounds like your H is doing the right thing. I am glad to hear he didn't go to the hospital....

And Don't allow the manipulation of the OW get in the away of you having close bonding time with your H and your beautiful baby coming into this world.

Trust me when I say, you can have a happy and fulfilling life...
The OW is absolutely insignificant in our lives...My wonderful H and I refuse to give her even a second thought...

We have better marriage then ever..I know my H..he would die for me if he had too. He made huge mistake..and he pays for that...

But one thing that we do cherish is the little boy that has brought a lot of joyment to us... and odd twist I know. We felt we had no choice but to get full custody... the OW was real screw ball...

I do though side with LynnG... I don't advocate contact... NC route seems to better for both child and families....just from my many years of experience with this situation.

You're amazing Hurt...

wiz

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> Cor , as for morals JEEZ.........what was wrong w/ your H's morals? It's a rhetorical question, no need for a nasty reply. It's easier to believe all OW are the same but they're not.

Cordelia

Please ignore Lonely... she doesn't get the point. I suspect she never will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It just more edvidence how low some these STOW will go. Its never them..NEVER. They were brain washed... the poor souls.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just imagine..they are raising children...

My heart goes out to those children..their own mothers...screwed them over. They purposely put their own children in jeopardy... they deny their own children of life with both mother and father in the home.

And I can't find it in me to respect anybody that would do that to their own child nor do they have any concious about screwing over another family.

Its pathetic.

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wiz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wiz that was a little out of line....about how someone is raising there children. OUCH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mary..Mary...Mary

You know me by now. Right? Seriously though... we have seen many of these board wars.

You were disturbed by my statement of, these people "are raising these children"

Not for one moment do I believe that ALL would set themselves up this way or for their children. I am talking about few of sickos that purposely and knowingly put themselves in this situtions...and then they have the nerve to cry "victim"

And I have always said, that the buck stops with a woman..she is the one creating the baby inside her...

Since men have little legal power wether to choose to keep a baby or not..then I think its the women responsibility what they are subjecting their child too. If the child is stuck with an [censored] DAD. Then you know who I blame the "woman" SHE picked the father.

Truly, I do advocate the rights for children, they have the right to be given the best possible enviroment...

I am amazed at how many of them just get finish having a baby and she already has another man in bed with her... I see this all the time. I read it on your board.

Or how about this one, and I was never so sicken by a post in my life: The OW is breastfeeding the MM child that he had with his W. Can you get over that? The W doesn't even know that the OW has his child too and their child of the marriage around this peice of trash.

Or how about the OW in Mom3boys situation... she had no qualms about going into their married bed...while she is attending after her dying father... three little boys live in that home. The OW knew this...but did this to them anyways..not that I am not blaming the H. It comperhensible to me. Woman are doing this to each other. She thought NOT once of those three little boys...I am astounded about how low some can get.

Although Mary I mention few, do I believe that are all like this no.

But look at Cheery, your friend... no doubt is another nut, she took on the MM last name even though he didn't stay with her. Instead of getting a life of her own she living on CS. And she's gloating about it... she is so proud.. PROUD. Makes me wonder what kind of message she is going to give her child??

For you Mary, I don't even put you in the same class... I have seen almost every post... Your not hiding behind roses. Your doing the smart thing..get everything done legally b/c every child should be supported and you don't minimize your role in this. You are at least damage control. And if I know you ..you would not wish this situation on any of your girls.

wiz

Dang it! I missed all the good stuff again! LOL

And w/ all this editting I was confused for a moment about where I was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I saw where hurt had written the whole 'stupid' comment & I KNEW someone would jump all over it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> & I THOUGHT maybe I should point it out, BUT then I thought about it some more & if you think about it, it is NOT a stereo-type.

A stereo-type would be IF you said EVERY woman who was EVER, @ any time in their lives an OW IS still stupid & will forever be stupid.

But for those of you who USED to be an OW or were @ some time in your life but are NOT now---------then her comment would not have applied to you right?

OR would you be brazen enough to say that when you WERE an OW that it was NOT stupid of you & you were NOT acting stupidly?

I would still say that any married person actively involved in an A IS stupid, being stupid & acting stupidly as well as any OW/OM actively involved w/ a married person is stupid, being stupid & acting stupid.

ONCE they are out of that situation/relationship/A, then they are no longer a WS/OW/OM then are NO longer stupid/acting stupid/being stupid, RIGHT?

OR would ANYONE dare to say that being involved w/ a married person is NOT stupid & was a SMART thing to do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Actually, I think a few posters here might.......but I hope not.

SO if you are NO longer an OW why would you take offense to someone saying OW are stupid? That's what I don't get?
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Also, many of us here realize that EVERY person is different & don't regularly make general statemenst anymore but you better believe when we were in the thick of it & still new (does this response ring any bells for any 'cross posters' of other boards? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) EVERY OW looks the same & the feelings of disgust towards any OW is the same. kwim?

If you are more past it then great, get on w/ your life & extend some grace towards those that are still new & hurting.

It's the least you/we can do.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxxo
kt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> Mary..Mary...Mary

You know me by now. Right? Seriously though... we have seen many of these board wars.

You were disturbed by my statement of, these people "are raising these children"

Not for one moment do I believe that ALL would set themselves up this way or for their children. I am talking about few of sickos that purposely and knowingly put themselves in this situtions...and then they have the nerve to cry "victim"

And I have always said, that the buck stops with a woman..she is the one creating the baby inside her...

Since men have little legal power wether to choose to keep a baby or not..then I think its the women responsibility what they are subjecting their child too. If the child is stuck with an [censored] DAD. Then you know who I blame the "woman" SHE picked the father.

Truly, I do advocate the rights for children, they have the right to be given the best possible enviroment...

I am amazed at how many of them just get finish having a baby and she already has another man in bed with her... I see this all the time. I read it on your board.

Or how about this one, and I was never so sicken by a post in my life: The OW is breastfeeding the MM child that he had with his W. Can you get over that? The W doesn't even know that the OW has his child too and their child of the marriage around this peice of trash.

Or how about the OW in Mom3boys situation... she had no qualms about going into their married bed...while she is attending after her dying father... three little boys live in that home. The OW knew this...but did this to them anyways..not that I am not blaming the H. It comperhensible to me. Woman are doing this to each other. She thought NOT once of those three little boys...I am astounded about how low some can get.

Although Mary I mention few, do I believe that are all like this no.

But look at Cheery, your friend... no doubt is another nut, she took on the MM last name even though he didn't stay with her. Instead of getting a life of her own she living on CS. And she's gloating about it... she is so proud.. PROUD. Makes me wonder what kind of message she is going to give her child??

For you Mary, I don't even put you in the same class... I have seen almost every post... Your not hiding behind roses. Your doing the smart thing..get everything done legally b/c every child should be supported and you don't minimize your role in this. You are at least damage control. And if I know you ..you would not wish this situation on any of your girls.

wiz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wiz okay you got me........all those situations you mentioned are discusting. In fact if you saw that post on the ow feeding the w's child even all the people who were or are ow reacted as you did. In gal is breat feeding her baby right now and I think if she could have jumped through the post and belted her she would have. That had to be the most discuting thing in the world. And as far as momto3boys ow sleeping in her bed while her father was dying.......that was bad....it was bad anyway to invade the wife's home, but to take advantage of that situation is worse. The list can go on....but also they are few and far between if you count all the ow in the world. I don't know who CLO is. She does not post on Tow. When you said it wiz, I took it as a blanket statement. Maybe I should not have. It came across like that. And you know me.......I think I've learned to pick my battles carefully <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I agree with you that we have to protect our children. We have to do what is in the best interest of them. Just as you have made some statements (that we both have seen about what some ow have done are doing) the same thing goes for some bw/mm. It's just sad that adults have to act like kids and NOT put all the children first, or justify all the actions being done to make it okay. It's not okay on either end. It's just not. I can't imagine having to deal with some of what we all have both seen on both sides. I've dealt with enough on my own, and it's nothing compared to what I've seen some deal with. I will say if I ever caught some woman trying to breast feed my baby that woman would be in the grave and I'd be in jail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

KT says:
OR would ANYONE dare to say that being involved w/ a married person is NOT stupid & was a SMART thing to do?

Actually, I think a few posters here might.......but I hope not.

SO if you are NO longer an OW why would you take offense to someone saying OW are stupid? That's what I don't get?


Okay, I understand your point. But knowing how the statement was made and later admitted to it's content I don't think I was far off. I did take offense only because her ow is no longer an ow (well at least not that we know of) so as you said she is no longer an ow right? But still stupid....and I must admit which I am sorry for I started the board war on that one when I read that statement. So why take offensive to that statement???? Because it was meant as it was written and not as you just explained it KT. If it was meant how YOU just explained it then it would not be offensive.