Yes, I regret that I wasn't bright enough to wait for a Divorce, but I don't regret our relationship because of what it has given me.

Well that sounds a little better- It isn't that I want anyone to live in guilt, shame, regret or their past. I just can't understand people who have no remorse. But I think those people are just lonely and insecure.

I understand what you're saying.

I (personally) just can't associate the terms remorse or regret when I think of the events that led up to this miracle in my life. I'm just thankful. Even if xMM isn't a father in the physical sense, I am so thankful for this beautiful child that he gave me. I will always be grateful to him for that.

I just feel very lucky and I usually try not to dwell the negative aspects of the situation.

It took 4 years for my divorce to be final. We seperated when I was 29, I guess in my mind waiting until the slow court systems were done would be wasting valuable time.

Turns out I wasted it anyway being in a relationship with a MM but...

Today, I wouldn't go near anyone whose divorce isn't final...not so much for fear of reconsiliation but more because of the emotional crap that you go through during the process. I want a healthy relationship, it is hard enough without having to deal with "all that". CLO is right though...I'd say about half the men on the dating scene are "divorcing". Maybe that has more to do with my age bracket than anything else. There are sg's out there...just got to look for them.

Also remorse and regret are not mutually exclusive. I have huge remorse for what I did, for his family and mine. The last 2 years have been hell, even for my friends and family having to watch me struggle. I can't speak to his family because we have NC but I'm sure it hasn't been a cakewalk there either. I do not however regret having my daughter. I try not to live with any regrets in my life, just don't think it is healthy to live wallowing in past mistakes. Deal, learn and move on...we can not change the past, only make a better future.

p.s. Divorce was final in December..phew, another break from the past...didn't realize how freeing it would make me feel considering how long it took.

Hmm...I can see both points here, kt and CLO.
kt - I see what you are saying about how would you even trust someone who you know is still married (whether he SAYS it's over or the D is coming soon yada yada)and how men do not have that bond that mothers have. AND kt I also had a crappy bio-sperm donor but God blessed me with a wonderful man who is forever my Dad. BUT I also agree with CLO in I understand that my H could not live his life with a good conscious knowing he produced a child he is not involved with. His father basically did him the same way and he swears he will not do that to any of his kids. I find that honorable, but I also see it as I either have to deal with this for the rest of my life or get out now. Some men are like my H, some are not. That doesn't make anyone right or wrong; just different..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I suppose everyone has their own take on that word. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that's where trouble begins. When we define a word in a way that works for us.

Divorcing is NOT equivalent to divorced, no matter how much one may want it to be.

It's still adultery, and it's still an EMR when separated too, because separated isn't equivalent to divorced either.

Also remorse and regret are not mutually exclusive

I would agree with that.

You go Autumnday!

Cheery, I think it's vital that W who were once OW realize (for future reference) that a MM is still married and no matter how separated from his W, he is not showing you his whole self and is, just by virtue of what he is doing, NOT being honest. I was an OW for a short time in my early 20's and I never really got this until I was married myself. I ultimately ended the A, because on a gut level I knew this, but now after being married myself I understand it all so much more.

It helps me to recover because in my situation I knew my H was not "himself" while this was happening and we were separated. I knew in my gut something was going on.

People make mistakes, and can change and I'm sure you've learned your lesson, I just wanted to make this point.

Just like the MM trust the OW to NOT get pregnant when they say "I'm on the pill" or I can't get pregnant because .......... this is not a dig at any OW here in general, just to point out that trust is tricky thing and should go both ways. What do OW truly think will happen when they start an A? I just don't understand and I've seen it first hand with friends.

CLO-were you the one gloating about living off the xMM/W's money? I can't remember which OW made that comment in another thread. It would be hard to respect that OW!

I like a lot of the OW here and respect their point of views but I don't get the whole xMM is an asDad for not seeing a child but just supporting them financially. I think women in general are lucky to get CS for their kids period, divorced or illegitimate. CS is a right in this country because the gov't is sick of supporting women who can't learn to control their reproductive systems! Are women who give up their children horrible people for life? Are they going to be horrible to future or existing children because they made a hard choice?

I can't imagine C or NC is an easy choice to make and because I'm a woman/mother I would never in a million years give up a child of mine. I don't expect OW to give up their child either to abortion or adoption but if the choice to keep the child is the WOMANs (OW<W<GF) she should shoulder the responsibility 100%. If my H walks away someday, I'll be able to work my butt off to provide 100% for my kids with no charity CS.

edit to say:
If you can't support a child 100% on your own with out a man/CS then don't get pregnant. Its not difficult to NOT conceive a child <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Or have a child knowing you give it the life of poverty or less extra's but thats not necessarily a bad thing. I know people who had NOTHING (and I mean nothing!!) growing up but had a loving family and THATS what makes a good child not MONEY!

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Gwenieinabottle ]</small>

I don't know if Cheerful was the one gloating about living off XMM's money, but I do remember her saying she changed her last name to XMM's so she can have the same last name as her childs, and then saying "One big happy family" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And no, I never asked H if he was cheating & he denied it.........I never suspected or expected such a thing.

But the OW KNOWS he is married.

This is a funny conversation because it reminds me of one I actually had w/ OW. My ONLY point to her was YOU KNEW HE WAS MARRIED. I think that one statement speaks for itself.

OF course she tried to tell me that she didn't know but the more I pressed her the more she revealed that she DID know. SO basically she was just stupid & was trying to cover her butt so she wouldn't look bad.
***************************************
OW said :
1) I didn't know he was married
me: How could you NOT see the ring on his finger & ME when I came to his job & when I called?
2) well, he told me you guys were separated
me: that's STILL married.
3) & would be getting divorced when you finished school
me: then WHY would I be hanging around & living w/ him?..because we're MARRIED
4) you were only living together until you finished school
me: so we weren't separated? Because we were MARRIED
5) there was no relations between you 2
me: ok we were living together, sharing a bed but NOT having sex? AND we're MARRIED.
6) OC was concieved in your home! (a lie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )
me: so you saw all my stuff there, KNEW I was still living there, saw our WEDDING pics on the walls, as well as our SON'S pics & you had sex w/ MY H anyway, while you KNEW we were MARRIED
7) HE said he didn't think that was HIS son!(another desperate lie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )
me: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
*********************************
*********************************
I laugh everytime I think of this conversation, now. It just proves what a liar OW was (is?). And that she knew EXACTLY what she was doing, what she was getting into & that she was NO victim in this. Because that was her thing---that NONE of this was her fault.

Easy to portray when you only have to tell YOUR side of it but when you are called on it? Then it falls apart & it all comes out. All I cared about was that she KNEW---there was NO advantage taken.

This is only MY experience BUT it seems MOST (%99?) OW KNOW what they are getting into & most (%99.9?) BW do NOT. SO I can't see WHERE any OW can put any blame anywhere but on her own actions. From her POV. Just as MM can't blame anyone but himself as well.

My H was man enough to take his responsibility, the least OW could do was take HERS!

There is nothing MORE pathetic than when a guilty party tries to blame someone else for their OWN actions. THAT'S when you LOSE respect for a human being.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
kt

I think I should just stick to these conversations about crochet from now on.

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Yeah, Yeah, that was me.

I only work 25 hours a week, but I have a very high paying job.

I don't "live off" of CS, it does what it's supposed to- pays for childcare, clothes, food, activities and medical expenses.


Someone made it sound like I live off CS so I just fed the thread, that's all.

MY motto is: LEAST amount of effort for the MAXIMUM return!

IF you can afford to support your family off a 25 hour per week job------------GO FOR IT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It BITES us (BW) becuase you are also getting a chunk (no matter how large or small) for the support of YOUR child that you are not earning.

SO we resent it becuase that is $$$$$$$$ OUR kids are NOT getting. (not that YOU personally are using MY H money, just making a point)

WE used to pay over $500 for ONE kid (oc) & the judge 'awarded' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> us a hardship amount for our 2 kids of LESS than that---------------better believe I was resentful!!!! Who wouldn't be?

But it is a more reasonable amount now. And it is taken out automatically so I don't even think about it. I've accepted it.

I CHOOSE not to think about it actually.
No use obsessing over something I have no control over. I'm learning.

I'm not against CS----just UNFAIR CS.

xoxoxox
kt

It is very nice being able to have that extra time with my children and bring in enough money to make ends meet.

I've worked hard to get where I am today and it's paying off (most importantly, for my children). There was a time in my life where I was working 60 to 80 hours per week and I missed out on a lot where my children are concerned. I'm thankful that I have so much time to really enjoy them now.

I know it's xMM's money that he could be using for his children of the marriage. I know this. He also knew what he was doing when he became involved with me. He lied to me about his sterility. He told me he had a vasectomy and he lied (again- why am I not surprised). I could say "I can only blame myself; I could have taken steps to ensure that I would not get pregnant" but once again, I believed this man. Needless to say, I was very surprised when I found out I was pregnant (I was very happy though!). So, we are both to blame.
I must admit that sometimes I feel like I was "Man-Trapped" if that makes sense. Such as a woman who lies about her birthcontrol to a man, I was lied to about his vasectomy.

Oh well. I'm not upset about it because my life is so much richer now.

While we are on the subject- yes- it was cheerful who said that nasty ugly comment.

I cant understand,though, if you are so very grateful to MM for the baby AND he is paying you decent money--- WHY do you feel the need to hurt people here? Why?

Also- in my one convo w/xow- I told her she was an IDIOT for letting ANY man ESPECIALLY a MM or a man who is clearly involved w/another to have sex WITHOUT protection! She said "oh well what about HIM" I told her DUH he's MAN-- if you let a MAN decide such things --YOU ARE AN IDIOT-- MEN will GO RAW without a thought-- MANY of them. I remember being single and how men would try to BEG you to forego the condom-- NO WAY buddy! For health reasons #1... and then for the simple fact that any woman should KNOW the nature of our (sweet) BEASTS called MEN is to get the sex even IF the heat of the moment prevents birth control!!

BUT WE HAVE TO CARRY the child-- and WE KNOW that men throughout history and forever, will NOT ALWAYS be there for us! I won't even let my own H do this with me if my birth control is not on target because I've missed doses,etc!!! Hecks no!!!!

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

I'm not trying to hurt people here.

I had never planned on posting, only lurking.

When I did register, I was only going to post when an OW opinion was asked. I'm an OW and I have opinions. I've already posted here far more than I ever wanted to.

My opinions will rarely be liked because I'm on the opposite side of the situation of the majority here. If I sugar coat my opinion, will it make a difference? Probably not- because the message will be the same.


Regarding your comment about unprotected sex, we are STD free and were monogomous.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Regarding your comment about unprotected sex, we are STD free and were monogomous. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You got lucky on the STD thing, its a gamble. I got lucky too- I suppose- since H took my choice for monogomy away.

Also,I highly, seriously doubt that he was not sleeping w/wife-- this is highly unusual in most of these cases- but oh well-- I'm done with this particular thread as we are so off topic and we could go on about this forever -- taking us further away from the originator's theme.

Goodnight, all..... going to get off of here before H and kids have a heart attack. They have infultrated the sunroom like 50 times already. They are sooo NOSEY !!! Time vacate the premises ! LOL!

CLO-
Thanks for clarifing. Maybe it was the way that thread was going, it just seemed like gloating off of xMM and his W. Mentioning the W is what got my attention. I understand the xMM part but the W did nothing to you personally. (that I know of).

I can be honest and say I'm jealous of you and ANY Mom who can work part-time or be a SAH. Thats what I wanted more than anything else but we have a lot of bills (medical mostly) and enjoy an above average life style and unfortunately H's job is not that great paying but has good benefits and I can earn more than him so I stay at work. We thought about him quiting to stay home with the kids but he has to pay CS for the OC so that won't work. But my kids are bright, polite and terrific! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I spend every second I can with them and take as much time off work as possible get to have a fun Mom and me day!

CLO-I would be pissed at MM in that situation too. I'm sure the pregnancy was shock to him too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I believe in the "trapping" pregnancy thing completely, you usually just don't see it in the reverse situation.

I like OW to post here as long its not a feud. I read over on TOW sometimes but never posted. I don't think they even let BW post there anymore, do they?

Sorry didn't mean to TJ. My bad!

I am truly sorry I started this debate/argument. All I was really trying to convey is in my quote below - from my original post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AUG12:
<strong>
My point and my advice to all of you on the forum – the decisions and actions you make and take today live on forever and impact the lives of people yet to be born. If you can’t be honest and loving during these very difficult times, you will have to face the consequences later – and even if you don’t have to face them, some innocent person may.
Aug 12th </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">