In response to your question:

I don't think the women here are self-centered, I think they are family oriented and there is a difference.

I just think it's a shame that some xMM don't consider their OC as 'family'.


I think it's interesting that there are so many BW's here and no xMM EVER EVER EVER post on this board to defend their choice for NC or to even flat out SAY "I don't CARE about this child, I don't LOVE this child, This child is NOT a part of my family and it never will be.". It's always the BW sticking up for the NC decision making these statements on 'behalf' of their H so the BW then gets the bad reputation. OW's don't believe what BW's say because we don't hear it from xMM himself. But how can we? He doesn't post.

He's got no scruples to show his face and defend his actions.

They've got all the scruples in the world until they're caught red handed and then they just go *poof*.

If an xMM wants to be a father to OC, he will be a father. The BW may put limitations on her H, but the H ultimately decides to abide by her wishes.

HE is the only one who can be father to his child and HE chooses not to be.


Yeah, I'd love to hear from a NC xMM. I'll grab my videocamera because I'm sure pigs will be flying that day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
He's got no scruples to show his face and defend his actions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he had scruples ... he would not have chosen to be an adulteror.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They've got all the scruples in the world until they're caught red handed and then they just go *poof*.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your kidding?

He had all the scruples in the world when he became an adulteror? This makes no sense.

Just make the best you can of the aftermath of adultery .... and accept that there are no scruples when adultery is choicen.

What is left after ... is limited.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

Pepperband,
I just re-read your post.

It's so interesting how we interpret this situation.

You're saying the BW thinks he's got no scruples when he has betrayed the W and Children of M.

We think they have no scruples when they betray their OC.


We think he's got scruples when he's choosing us over his W.

The BW's thinks he's got scruples when he chooses W over the OW.


We've got the same thinking going, we're just on opposite poles of the story.

scruples

an ethical consideration or principle that inhibits action

Having scruples STOPS us from doing stupid or evil things ... scruples do not give us courage to act wrongly... look it up

Pep

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I'm using "scruples" as a slang synonym for "****" because I know Justuss will come around and edit that word.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

***note** How'd I miss this?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
JustUss

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

~ gall~

Is probably a better choice

brazen boldness coupled with impudent assurance and insolence

certainly not any word associated with good ethics!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "****" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">***** without ethics or self-control along for the ride ... is just an immature act taken without caution or forethought.

Pep

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Good choice!

I always think "He doesn't have *****" when I hear "He's got no scruples". LOL!

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

LOL! It's so funny how the same word can mean something different to another person!

See, I hear "*****" and I think anatomically "Oh, manly, powerful, that Tool-Time grunt, testosterone, etc."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Men.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, I hear "*****" and I think anatomically "Oh, manly, powerful, that Tool-Time grunt, testosterone, etc."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does not take "*****" to screw the OW. Only poor judgement.

Pep

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We think he's got scruples when he's choosing us over his W.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Explain to me how you think any person's betrayal of their vows can be considered an ethical choice.(AKA scruples)

Not just a man ... but a woman as well. DE-gender your answer.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We think he's got scruples when he's choosing us over his W.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Scruples is when one is deciding how to behave based on a code of ethics that limits bad choices ....

Scruples is NOT deciding which woman to choose ... What you are describing is desire ... something completely different ... and not necessarily ethical or unethical.

Try not to confuse yourself about the difference between desire-based choices and ethical-based choices.

Pep

Oh Pepperband,
You are the Pick-Apart-A-Thread champion.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Okay, if I disassociate myself from the fact that this man is M, he is choosing to be with me above and before any other person.

I say "disassociate myself from the M" because that is what we (OW) do.

They are M, yes. They don't act M, they tell us their M is ending soon, they are not happily M, you name it. We don't look at it as a betrayal of vows because he tells us there are no M vows to uphold. It is very easy to believe that someone you love is being honest with you. We have no reason at that point to distrust them.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Explain to me how you think any person's betrayal of their vows can be considered an ethical choice.(AKA scruples)

Not just a man ... but a woman as well. DE-gender your answer.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try again CLO ... PLEASE ... try to de-gender your answer
and
answer this question not just based on your experience
but
based on the principles you NOW use in your life.

Don't answer from the past ... but from the present.

I am REALLY only interested in you as you are today ....
What do you think TODAY about this question...

Do you think that any person's betrayal of their vows can be considered an ethical choice?

Pep

Betrayal of vows is not an ethical choice.

One should END one relationship before diving into another.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are making changes in your life that are positive and produce likely possibilities of a good outcome ... right?

Living with our choices is easier if we weed out the bad ones using our ethical standards.

Pep

I'm going to cut in for a second.....

EVERYONE makes bad choices, you are only untrustworthy when you do not learn from your mistakes and continue to make them.

You become respected when you stop blaming others and try to make amends for your mistakes.

You become wise when you teach others not to make the same mistake for themselves

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by happymom:
<strong> I'm going to cut in for a second.....

EVERYONE makes bad choices, you are only untrustworthy when you do not learn from your mistakes and continue to make them.

You become respected when you stop blaming others and try to make amends for your mistakes.

You become wise when you teach others not to make the same mistake for themselves </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXactly!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, I hear "*****" and I think anatomically "Oh, manly, powerful, that Tool-Time grunt, testosterone, etc."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does not take "*****" to screw the OW. Only poor judgement.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really enjoying this post but not the discussion but the two girls on the other fence from each other and Justice has come in and edit each of these posts and you keep on going, but it is truely fun and enjoyable. And also a open "nice" so far from what I've read debate.