Could some of you who already have an OC in the world list some reasons why you think C or NC is right for you. I believe NC would be best for all concerned here, but I don't know that it's going to be possible in my situation. My H and OW run in the same circle of friends and to pretend the child is not his isn't really an option. Also, I don't want to force a decision on my H that he may later resent me for. I know he made this mess and what I deal with is ultimately up to me, I just don't want to play God here and I want my H to be able to make a decision he can live with. So, I'm not really asking for advice for my situation, just what were your considerations when making your decision? And how is it working for you now? Thanks!

right now H and I have limited contact w oc. We're currently overseas. But we have choosen c for us. we made that decision simply because we felt it would be unfair to oc to be w/ a dad. It has been hard on our marriage and at times I wonder if nc would make recovery easier, probably so. At the end of the day though I know that doing whats right by the child is whats best. he's the only completely innocent in this story and deserves to be protected and loved by all.

1)First off get a DNA test. NEVER EVER take the word of the OW no matter how much she insists he is the father. If she will sleep with a MM then she will open her legs to anything. Your H should NEVER sign anything.

2)I personally believe contact is a bad idea if the OW will not be cooperative. My parents gave it a chance and were not willing to go to court for 18 years. Dad walked away with no regrets knowing he at least tried. Contact is not worth it....not at the expense of your children or marriage. I think C can work if all parties are mature but from personal experience and reading this board that is not the case. OW's are so bitter and angry about being discared like a peice of trash that they are that they lash out and try and use OC as leverage. The only power she has is the power you give her.

3)Your H must respect your boundaries and feelings. That means him not being alone with OW at pick up and drop offs. Or talking to her on the phone about OC. I think those chatty conversations would drive anyone insane. I don't know how the BS puts up with that.

There are so many thing you have to consider. Sorry you are in this position.

We have contact and it is limited for the time being since we have not gone to court. We do see OC. In the begining H actually said he didn't know if he wanted contact. I think he might have been feeling me out. I told him that I wasn't sure if I was even going to stay w/ him, so not to think of me when he made that decison. He needed to decide if it was something he could live w/ or not. When the OC was born he said he "couldn't be that much of a jerk not to be involved." We both felt it wasn't the OC's fault and she does deserve to have both parents even though it does make it harder on us. In our situation we haven't been to court (we would pay more in CS), but it does give OW more control over visitation, etc... which I think is what she wants. H still needs to get the paternity test done. I definitely would push for the paternity test, and then get court ordered visitation if you choose contact. It's harder w/o it. The XOW gives us some problems, but the OC is a joy. She's a sweet, calm baby. I enjoy being w/ her when I see her, and I enjoy seeing that H is so good to her.

coldday,

We only recently moved back to the same town after being long distance 6y. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So, we've had limited (mail) contact, no contact (2y), and now: visitation!

Very important--we decided (w/a counselor) beforehand what our boundaries are. POJA, we are willing to cut contact if xow became/becomes any threat to our family. I am not willing to be a doormat or screw up my kids' lives.

After mail contact went sour (due to xow), no contact was VERY PEACEFUL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

DH and I actually EXPECTED visitation to go badly, to be forced to NC b/c of xow... However, xow (who initiated visitation!) has respected us, and visitation has gone very smoothly. OC is very loving and enjoys her visits very much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We think we are a good (if limited) influence on and resource for OC.

My DH is very grateful for my cooperation and loving treatment towards OC, and he works to keep my trust. He still has guilt, but not as bad as it used to be; visitation helped him. It's been akward at times, making OC "public", but not as bad as I expected. The kids and I enjoy OC visits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I feel relief not having to "hide" her existance anymore. I do not regret visitation FOR US at this time.

But contact only works if ALL adults act like adults and respect boundaries. Sometimes that's not possible. Be careful. Be a class act, and you'll have no regrets. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

J

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>

So, I'm not really asking for advice for my situation, just what were your considerations when making your decision? And how is it working for you now? Thanks!

We went into it (C w/ OC)a little naive & learned some things the hard way.

H & I kept flip flopping back & forth when things would get 'ruff' & we were stressed out.

FINALLY we POJA'd (duh!)& made an agreed personal boundary for our family. What our limits were & what we would do if our limits became pushed, keeping in mind our kids as well & agreed to watch for signs of stress in them.

We even consulted a therapist who was working w/ ALL of us. (OW, me & H) Therapist agreed w/ our plan & knew what we were up against. We had a list of steps we would take BEFORE the ultimate of NC.

When the time came that our boundary was crossed----we knew it would be the LAST time & felt @ peace w/ our decision & went NC, except through the mail w/ OC.

We had a plan & stuck to it and were able to feel very peaceful about it once it was done. We were confident in our decsion & knew we had done everything we could to avoid it, NC was a last resort.

xoxoxo
kt

Thanks for the info everyone. We are leaning towards C, but I think I'm thinking like you KT, that it will make me feel less vulnerable if we have a POJA written up as far as the boundaries for him and her and how much we will "put up with" before enough is enough. What were some of your "conditions" if you don't mind me asking?

ColdDay, glad you brought up the issue b/c we are debating the same thing in my household. We received DNA results last week and as expected, H is the father. There are alot of factors in our decision making and I too am not going to be the one to tell H what to do for fear that it will fall back on me later down the road. Our OC, his mother and her H live a few blocks from us. IMO, there's no way for NC in the current living situations of both parties. So, either they would have to move or we would have to move and I told H that if we move it'd have to be out of state. I also said if he wants to pursue C then there will be a list of "Michele's Rules" and that more than likely xOW will not like the rules but that's the way it will be. And there will be no 3 strikes you're out...he breaks one ONE time and that's it. He's voiced understanding on both options and I'm still just waiting for him to make up his mind. I've contemplated the idea of all 4 of us adults sitting down to discuss this delicate issue but I don't know if we can all keep emotions aside...especially myself cuz I still get the feelings of wanted to beat her a** on occasion!! My H is all paranoid that I'm going to leave him, especially now that we have proof in hand of paternity. I told him if I could withstand him telling me he was in love with someone else, him telling me that he has had numerous A's throughout our marriage and even brought those women to my house and in my bed on occasion (while I was away with our kids on vacation) that I can handle a baby for crying out loud. I haven't suffered and put myself through torment after torment to just walk away. I'm stronger than that! I'll quit rambling....

I also thought we could all sit down and come to a visitation agreement, etc... that would be acceptable to all 3 of us (H, me and XOW). XOW refused to meet w/ me. She thinks she can talk to H only and that it is their child and I am not a part of the decisons. I reminded her whenever she calls H and asks him something, he tells her he'll call her back. I explained during this time he was calling me to see if it was acceptable to me. I am involved in the decisions whether she likes it or not. She got really quiet. I don't think it's really changed anything though. I think it's better to go through the courts and have an enforceable agreement if you can.

We are in Contact.
Tylor was almost 7 when I found out about him.
My H had always been a part of his life. (As well as H's mother and other family members).
I never even thought about NC. I love children. all children.
I have become friends with his mother. I know strange situation.
They live 800 miles from us, so we dont get to see each other often. We talk on the phone often. we e-mail each other as well.
I include Tylor as one of my children. I dont hide him. when he is here for visits I take him with me to church and to family (my family) outings. He has been acepted by all.
To me Children are gifts from God.
Maybe if I didnt have my faith in God, I wouldnt be able to accept him and love him, and be friends with his mother, What I do know is that ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THRU GOD.

What were some of your "conditions" if you don't mind me asking?

1. OW sticking to the court order.

We understood occasionally things 'come-up', dr. appts, sick child, what have you....but then we woudl expect the time to be 'made-up'. OW never allowed time to be made up. If OC was 'sick' too bad, OW expected us to forfeit our time w/ OC & just let OW keep her.

OW would make dr. appt.'s for OC on OUR time & not allow us to make up the time.

OW would say that she agreed to the co but when it came time to make due on the co, OW would flat out lie & say she never agreed.. (OW did this IN FRONT of the therapist we had ALL made the agreement w/. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

2. Signs of stress in our oldest son.

He had some very visible signs of depression when we began C. IT took awhile for us to put all the pieces together & realize it. Once we did, he got a little better & we helped him work through it. BUT I made sure to keep an eye out from then on & if I saw ANYthing like it again----that would be it!

Sure enough, he started getting headaches, nausious & vomitting everytime we would go to get OC. (towards the end)

I was about to end C right then & there (& spoke to the therapist about it, who also recommended cutting way back on C w/ OC, @ least) but H convinced me to wait out the summer schedule to see if it got better..............it would be our 'last chance/attempt' (OUR poja), I agreed.

The summer did go better but then OW started to break our boundary #1. (1 dr. appt was ok, but then there was another, after we ahd spoken to the dr. ourselves who confirmed it was an UNnecessary appt. that could be rescheduled w/ no problem, OW refused.) The therapist was aware of our plan by then and fully understood our position & decision.

3. C went through me, via email.

I know many have differing opinions about this & some even find it offensive. Originally C was strictly between OW & H, I was usually right there while he spoke to her on the phone or son was w/ him when he dropped OC off @ the door. BUT then OW conversations began to get personal, about the A, ect. OW requested I & the ktbunch NOT accompany H to visit w/ OC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> {that NEVER happened though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> }

H & Ow began to disagree constantly over OC issues & then OW would bring up A whenever there was a disagreement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So we transitioned all communication via log book that traveled w/ OC AND email. THat worked well for awhile. Whenever there was a 'disagreement' then OW would start to demand that she could/would ONLY communicate to my H about OC.

OW would revert to 'ONLY H' could transport OC to/from school & drop-offs/pick-ups (after I had been the one doing the first day pick-ups for months now {or even the past year}, again, going against the co) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So those were our boundaries/conditions.
The therapist was well aware of them & made them known to OW. THerapist knew that it was up to OW to maintain.

OW didn't so C ended.
Therapist also knew that we would continue communication w/ OC via regular mail after C ended & we have ever since. Of course, we never get a reply. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

{we had also tried mediations, the courts & therapists. we agreed that we had used up all our rescources & had no more $$$$$ to go back to court. so this was our last resort, everyone (therapist & OW) was aware of that}
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I think as long as you & H are both in agreement THEN you will feel @ peace about your decisions & boundaries.

xoxoxoxoxox
kt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CodyG:
<strong> 1)First off get a DNA test. NEVER EVER take the word of the OW no matter how much she insists he is the father. If she will sleep with a MM then she will open her legs to anything. Your H should NEVER sign anything.

~~~~~Wow Cody that is a harsh and generalized statement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I can HONESTLY say even though I DID have an affair with a MM I have NEVER slept with more than one man at a time, and I can count on one hand who I have slept with.

2)I personally believe contact is a bad idea if the OW will not be cooperative. My parents gave it a chance and were not willing to go to court for 18 years. Dad walked away with no regrets knowing he at least tried. Contact is not worth it....not at the expense of your children or marriage. I think C can work if all parties are mature but from personal experience and reading this board that is not the case. OW's are so bitter and angry about being discared like a peice of trash that they are that they lash out and try and use OC as leverage. The only power she has is the power you give her.

~~~~~~~Again generalization. Disgarded like a peice of trash that they are???? You've heard one story and really you don't need to hear the other, as it's your parents and her business and all, but not everything is as it seems. Also I agree with you that contact can only work if all the adults put forth the effort to act as adults and put all the children first. No parent under any circumstances should use there child as leverage. Again, you are only hearing one side and don't always know all the facts. Sometimes it's not just as you stated.....sometimes it is.

3)Your H must respect your boundaries and feelings. That means him not being alone with OW at pick up and drop offs. Or talking to her on the phone about OC. I think those chatty conversations would drive anyone insane. I don't know how the BS puts up with that.

There are so many thing you have to consider. Sorry you are in this position. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I was and will alway bee 100% pro no contact. I feel it is best for everyone.

1. Do you have children? How do you plan to explain this child to them? Are you going to get angry with them when they don't want anything to do with this child? How are you going to handle the stress of this on your children?

2. I hear how you don't want to force your husband, fearing a backlash. What about what YOU want? Not what you think is best for anyone, just YOU. Think about this, knowing you don't have to share that thought with a single person. Knowing what you do right now, what do YOU want? Then you and your husband need to sit down and discuss this issue. Really hash it out with the what ifs.

3. I think it is best to pay child support and move on with your lives, and ow/oc move on also. Due to the actions of two people, many others are now paying the price. EVERYONE is getting a a piece of the hurt pie here. I believe it is best for everyone to move on and past the mistake.

4. What is best for YOU and your family, may not be what is best for ow/oc. If you put the needs of the oc above those of your own children, you may be sacrificing them. The needs of EVERYONE need to be addressed, not just the oc. The oc is one of many who get hurt. YOU need to look out for you, your children and your future. If you don't who will?

This is not a normal situation. There is a reason that children grow best in a marriage situation. Now that a child may (or may not) be your hushands, you really need to do some deep thinking. It is afterall, quite possible that he is not the father anyway. But if he is, be prepared. Use your head and really think this out. Contact sounds so politically correct and has such good intentions......however, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I say no contact and move on or you will be putting up with ow/oc drama forever. You only get one life, go and live it.

Lynn, I understand where you're coming from and I don't look down on anyone that has chose NC. It is a tough situation and you have to think about what will be best for all parties involved.

Personally when we made this decision, I made H make it on his own. I drew guide lines that I could live w/, but the actual decison had to be his. I felt he should have contact, he wasn't sure. I encouraged him for the sake of the child. When he mentioned NC, I told him he needed to make a decision he could live with. I don't think it was in fear of repurcussions from him per se. But if he made a decision he might regret later, he needs to live w/ it.

The contact we've had has been sporadic, I don't think it's the best way either, but sometimes I think it's easy for the WS to use their BS as why they want NC and they need take responsibility for their actions and any decisons they make.