Hi Buck, thanks.

Before this happened, I would have said the same thing about my wife too. It's kind of how it spiralled out of control -- I cheated, so there was no going back once she knew. As it turned out, she was very patient and suffered through a lot of pain for the sake of believing I'd come to my senses and return. Which I did, and I think I would be willing to do again, better this time. The fact that she's exponentially more wounded now of course makes everything different, and I don't really blame her for what she's decided.

A lot of the pain I've felt about how this was handled was because it was so different from everything we'd discussed up until she filed, and it took me by surprise. Do I deserve it? Probably I guess.

I have no intention of ever failing to meet all my financial responsibilities.

Ok, but do you want your W & marriage back or WHAT?

We all know what you deserve(IMO ALL of us have WAY more than ANY of us deserve in our lives already, so that was not meant to sound judgemental) but your obviously NOT the first spouse to have ever put yourself in this situation, & as long as I've been here, we ALL know you will NOT be the last. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Why do you hae a problem w/ just choosing to do the RIGHT thing & try to reconcile w/ your W?

Why is there any doubt in your CHOICE @ all? I am still not understanding that part.

Yes, I kow you say it is your W... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...but yet YOU are the one who has said you 'don't know what you want'.

Suppose your W said she was willing to 'tuff it out'? THEN would YOU be willing to do the RIGHT thing & work on your MARRIAGE?


???????????????
kt

kt, if my W were willing to work on everything -- not just the A, which I realize would be a massive and time-consuming obstacle to overcome -- I think that I would soon be ready to work on the marriage. I say "soon" because as much as it hurts me, I can't let my desire to be liked and accepted be the driving force behind that decision. It is really a function of my love for my children and (as moronic as it sounds) my values about marriage itself. Unfortunately when I asked her about it, she said no, and I don't think given the restraining order I should keep asking her.

I've got one foot out the door at my job with no prospects on the horizon. Leaving this job would be essential to going to NC with the OW. If my boss were here today, it may well have happened already, based on some of the stuff the OW unloaded on me this morning...

A summary -- I said (1) that to keep making progress in therapy I needed to have time with no contact outside work and (2) that she needed to proceed more deliberately in her divorce (though they are separated, she still hasn't filed) and therapy, and that I wasn't comfortable with the role of even tacit interloper in her own marital problems. She angrily responded that based on her H's abusiveness toward her and her kids, reconciliation was out of the question no matter what happens between us, and that I should stop pestering her ("(blank)ing shut up" were her actual words) about therapy because she has an appointment scheduled for this week. I went to her house, removed my handful of personal items, and returned her keys.

Upon discovering this (when do we actually work, I'm sure you're wondering), she called and accused me of abandoning the baby. I said the baby isn't here yet, and when it is I will not abandon my responsibilities in any way. She said what I do to her now, I do to the baby (because of this today, she's sick, coughing up blood, etc. -- my fault). In my current state, it's very, very hard to stand up to that kind of guilt -- and she knows it, I fear, since it's worked before.

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

**********edit**********

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Lost, do you actually want to live the rest of your life (even though I can guarantee THAT won't happen) with an OW of her caliber? Yikes, she seems vicious. Far more vicious than your W seems. So you say her and her H are separated? What prompted that..the A? Is this her first A? I know you're battling your job situation. It's definitely not a good position to be in. My H's XOW and her H live 3 blocks from us in a small town. Our 12 year old sons are friends and go to school together. Our daughter and the OC (whom we haven't decided if pursuing C will be the best for) will be in the same class at the same school if both families continue to live where we live. Everyone tells us to move. It's hard to do so I totally understand you and your job situation. Are you 100% positive that the unborn child is yours? Could it not be her STBXH?

(removed response to edited comment)
______________________

Michele, yes, she has a mean streak, that's for sure. She says this is her first A. Their separation, from what I have heard and seen, was rooted in (1) his addiction to teen porn (2) his laziness around the house (e.g. grass untrimmed around the house since it was built four years earlier, cat box in the basement unchanged for five months, no help with dishes/laundry/etc.) and (3) his losing $25,000 of their retirement and kids' college money in options, then subsequently lying about it for months -- it was only discovered (along with the porn) using a keystroke capture program to access the account balances.

But the affair happened at the same time, so it's impossible to really separate. She says that when her and her H talk about their situation, reconciliation, etc., the A is incidental and not really the big factor that stands between. He said I'm her "hobby."

I'd say I'm 99% sure it's mine. She swears it can only be mine, her husband upon hearing the date was positive it couldn't be his, and the timing would make sense that it was mine. Regardless, there will be a paternity test to protect everyone involved.

One of the tragic errors we made when we tried to reconcile this fall was not to just walk away from this job and her forever. My wife and I agreed that financially it would add too much stress to our situation. Predictably, continued exposure to her was like emotional radiation to me. I've heard of people in NC who are doing fine, bump into the OW at the store for 60 seconds, and are emotionally messed up for weeks afterward. I worked with the OW every day, eight hours a day, within earshot of her desk. Honestly, I would have been willing to move to another state just to get a clean start, but my STBXW has very close family ties nearby and does not ever want to leave this area.

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CodyG:
<strong> ****edit***** </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">****edit*****

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Lost, I've only read bits and parts of your story. From I can tell your still talking to both? Am I right? It sounds like you want your marriage, but your wife only wants to work on the Affair and nothing else? Well right now that is smaking her right in the face. Sometimes you have to deal with what is smacking you before you go on to other things...and was you at least have a handle on that smack then you go start doing other things. If the ow is that bad stay the heck away from her. You are not legally obligated to her until that child is born and proven to be yours. OR maybe you just need to stay away from both for awhile and go to counseling and figure out what is what....and then mc with your wife as well. I'm not trying to bash you, but let you see from a womans point of view. Everything else will come to place when it's time.....the affair is right in your wife's face right now and that needs to be dealt with. Also remember everyone is different. It may take one person longer than others to start getting past the whole thing.

Oh, I know exactly how it is. We see XOW on occasion and my H's mood instantly changes. (of course mine does too because I so still want to kick her butt!) It's hard for us to contemplate packing up and moving. We live in the small town that we both grew up in (we were high school sweethearts), our children are going to the school we went to, (we have a 15 year old, a 12 year old and our newest addition was born Aug. 1, 24 days before OC was born)both of our families live nearby, etc. etc. Of course if H decides to pursue C with OC, we'll have to see OW on a regular basis. I think it's a matter of commitment on your part. I understand your W is hurt and confused. I threatened D. I was damned close to filing. I, too, almost got a RO on H because there were times when he didn't seem too stable and it scared me. But something clicked in his head. Him and i went to dinner (by ourselves...a rarity in our house) Saturday night and I briefly discussed your situation because the way you describe your feelings is so eerily similar to his. He was very interested in hearing what you had to say. Maybe he'll find a chance to post something to you sometime. I really think he could help you, and I really think I (and the other wonderful BS's in here) could help your W if she'd join.

I've been pregnant 3 times now, just gave birth 6 months ago and was under so much stress (I guarantee far more than your OW) from this whole mess, and I've never once coughed up blood. I think she's full of s**t. Don't fall for it. If she's that sick, tell her to call her doctor and not you. And you do realize she's already using OC and he/she's not even here yet?? What kind of mother would use her own child for her self-gratification? Please tell me you see through that. You seem like a very intelligent guy. Don't stoop to her stupidity.

Lost71,

I am sure your wife has had the same thoughts after each d-day. She probably cried in agony while you were off doing god knows what with OW. You get no sympathy from me.

NTMO,

I missed your comment but I am have a good idea of what you said.

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: CodyG ]</small>

needtomoveon, I am not talking to my STBXW anymore, mostly because of the restraining order (not a personal protection order) issued with the divorce petition. I am still talking to OW -- we work together for now -- but I was trying to pull out of that too when she flipped out today.

My last real discussion with my STBXW indicated that to her, the affair is the only real issue in our marriage. While I of course agree it is gigantic and would require years of hard work, much of it one-way, I also had concerns about the state of our marriage before the affair. She seems to have concluded that anything she did wrong up to then was because of my baggage and my brief affair while we were engaged which she never knew about until last fall. Maybe it is, I don't know. But I do know my needs were not being met -- NOT that that justifies the A in ANY WAY.

Reconciling just seems so impossible now. She is unwilling, and even if she were, her family and most of our mutual friends who'd welcomed me back after the mess this summer now despise me.
___________

Michele, I'd be very interested to hear your husband's perspective if he ever has time to post here. I have definitely appreciated yours.

I don't know what it is that attracts me to OW. It can't be healthy. At the simplest level, she easily meets my main emotional needs of affection and compliments et al in a way my W found very difficult the few times she tried. We have similar backgrounds, poor, messed-up families, worked our way to success in our careers. In her better moments -- when she's getting her way, probably -- she is fun, insightful and supportive. When she's not getting her way, it does seem like nothing is beneath her. I forgot to mention that after the "false" pregnancy last summer, she claimed she actually had cancer and didn't want to tell me. I didn't believe her, and she later admitted that was a lie, too -- she had growths a few years ago, but nothing lately.

Why do I forgive stuff like that from her? I don't know. I've thought about it a lot. Somehow, being so messed up too, it's like I get why she did it. And that somehow I think we could help each other be better people because we're both messed up and we understand each other. My therapist calls that "magical thinking" -- that can't be good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh puuuuuhleeze!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She makes you feel like a KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR! That's why! You want to RESCUE her & FIX her is why! Can't you see how UNhealthy that is?

'broken people' are attracted to other broken & weak people so that they can feel strong & NOT broken! DUH!

Your W is stronger & you are right---------why is it you can be so 'forgiving' to OW but yet NOT your W? WHich is so misplaced anyway!

I completely understand that there are issues that go both ways in a marraige whenever infidelity is involved but HOW DARE YOU even try to bring that up to your W @ a time like this. I bet your W would have NO problem meeting yoru needs IF you weren't so busy meeting OW's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Really--------stop blubbering & be a MAN! STOP making excuses---stand up & take responsibility for YOUR part. Forget about whatever part your W played in this------you can only change YOU---so stand up & do IT!!!!!

STOP blaming the NC on your W--that SHE wants it ect! YOU want it or else you would be having C w/ her & NOT OW.

HOW dare you treat your FAITHFUL W like this. YOU messed up, she took you back & YOU had the nerve to do it again.

DO you know how lucky you are that you even still have your genitals? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> good grief!

AND now after ALL that--------------you have the nerve to STILL talk w/OW. Your W is not avoiding you because you cheated 2x but because you are STILL cheating. Read up on Emotional Affairs buddy!

I take back what I said about trying to C your W. She is effectively using plan B. MAYBE SHE IS READING HERE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lost W if you are reading----------WAY TO GO GIRL! Keep up the good work! Stay strong!

kt


editted 4 typing

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

kt, wow, thanks. Seriously.

I need to get out of this job.

Lost, I was in denial of being a part of the faults of my M also. It took quite a while for me to realize the problems that I had. I had to take ownership of them. H had to take ownership for his. H had to take ownership of the affairs. They were his choices and they were the wrong choices. He owns that and will admit it. If your W decides to try to reconcile, you definitely need to check out the Needs questionnaires on this website. More than likely, your needs will be totally opposite of hers, which there is nothing wrong with that but you have to learn compromise. Have you really thought about the needs that your W does meet? Putting it into perspective, Ow probably doesn't meet those and probably can't meet those. Obviously she's not meeting the needs of her H, hence why they're having problems too. It takes alot of listening, and alot of constructive criticism. That's what recovery and therapy are all about. But you're going to leave one bad situation to be involved in another bad situation if you do D and be with OW.

Lost - You do know that there are people who've had much WORSE sitch's than yours and their M's have survived???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Geez o'Pete boy! You aren't the first person that this has happened to.

Quit whining and DO. Aren't you tired of living like this? DO. The only way to PROVE yourself to your wife and to yourself (b/c these are the only two who really count here) is to DO. Nothing else will suffice but action. Quit talking. Do. Act. Be. Tell me you're learning through this...but keep doing. All I've seen is a lot of jaw flappin' and no action. That's all your darling W has seen, too.

You cannot be the person your wife needs by talk. She needs action. If, IF the baby is yours, you cannot be the father you want to be by talk. You must do.

And OW's bs is BS. Period. I don't mean to sound unsympathatic, but unless you signed on the dotted line when you guys dropped trou that you'd always be there for her no matter what, she IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Her feelings are not your responsibility. Quit letting her dictate what you are doing to her (her telling you she's spitting up blood...she should get her butt to the doc instead of wasting time carping at you and you should've told her that). She made an adult decision to have that baby BY HERSELF. There were no guarantees that you'd be there forever....ever! She should've thought of that!

Time to think of you and W. Baby is on it's way no matter what. Can't change it...all you can do is control how you react to it all. Right now, tho all I see is no reaction...just scared fence squattin'. I'd hate to have you walk around with the damn thing poking outta both ends.

- Kimmy

I just love women who lay it on the line. Way to go Kimmy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CodyG:
<strong> Lost71,

I am sure your wife has had the same thoughts after each d-day. She probably cried in agony while you were off doing god knows what with OW. You get no sympathy from me.

NTMO,

I missed your comment but I am have a good idea of what you said. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cody <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I just feel you should not put all ow/xow in the same catagory that is all and I've seen you do more than once.
Sorry for the threadjack

Lost, I don't know what to tell you. I can tell you this....we all make our bed. I'm not sure if you figured this out or not, but I'm an xow with oc. I don't regret my daughter AT ALL!!!! She is (along with my twins) "my night and shinning armor". But I am not proud of how she came about. I'm not proud that I had a relationship with a mm for over a year. I'm not proud that I justified my actions for that long. You are still justifing your actions. So you and ow are two pees in a pod? Are you keeping her hanging on because your wife is not? come on....if you really want to fix yourself then get away her and work on LOST!!!!! You don't need a woman in your life to be complete. How can you help her if your just like her and messed up?

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

kt, Kimmy and ntmo, thank you very much. I'm still processing your latest responses.

I made the mistake of calling MOW last night to see how she was, and I'm almost embarassed for her to post her answers. Hospital, feeding tubes (she's vomiting up blood, not coughing it up - my mistake), all stress-related because according to her doctor the "guy who got her pregnant" isn't there taking care of her. (She has the preachiest doctors. Last summer, while she was faking the pregnancy and I asked to go along to an appointment, she made up a histrionic story about how her doctor thought having this baby out of wedlock was such a mistake and she should abort it.)

The critical need for immediate NC for my own mental health is very clear. If my boss ever gets here today, we will talk.

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

Oh Lost...you poor thing! Oh the tangled webs we weave...

I started this whole separation with the goal of getting to a place where I could be OK with me if I were totally alone, without either woman, and paid child support to two households. Somehow, after the divorce was filed, I lost sight of that goal, and I started being more worried about what MOW would do, what would happen to OC, etc.

In the last couple days I'm seeing just how thick the fog can be. I don't know what exactly it is, but something about MOW really scares me -- not physically, but I find myself over and over responding in ways to keep her not mad at me. That's my old behavior in a nutshell -- I want to be liked, I don't want people mad at me. Well, she will be mad, just like my W is mad, and I need to keep trying to find my way regardless. It's a huge obstacle for me to work on.

A couple of you have really nailed a few things in particular, some of which my wife has said almost verbatim. If there is not NC, the emotional affair continues. And in the meantime, I've been almost all talk and no action, however justifiable I mistakenly think it is by having some plan in place to achieve it. Because in the meantime, I blow it, backtrack, and end up starting the process over.

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>