I did not want to threadjack so I will start a new thread.

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just feel you should not put all ow/xow in the same catagory that is all and I've seen you do more than once.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If memory serves me I have only did that once, when I said an OW will open her legs to anything that walks or something like that.

Yesterday I told a certain someone to send his "slut packing".

When it comes down to it are OW's really that different from each other? They all do the same things...like help break up families. I don't want to hear that BS about the OW not having made the commitment to the family. She didn't but she still has blood on her hands.

I acknowledge that are a few xow that post here like you and joshmom who I would call respectable but I believe that is not the norm. So therefore I will continue to lump all OW's together.

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: CodyG ]</small>

Cody, No, you've done it like three times really. But who's counting. Also, I have to disagree with you. I know that you were very hurt over what your dad did. You should be. NOt fair, but it's normal for you to be. I've gotten alot of support from both sides and I can tell you that not all ow are the same. Also, if you must catagory them as the same, then you need to put all the mm in the same catagory which would include your father. And by what you've said about your father he does not seem to be that way. Yes I will agree that some ow are as you said, but that goes for any person at all. The title has nothing to do with it. I have met quite a few woman that regret there actions. Just as you protect your mother and father we (xow) will protect our children. I would walk on fire for all kids. Maybe as time goes on and you grow more, you'll see that. I hope so anyways. I would never lump all bs in the same catagory as it's not fair. I have always felt that the title means nothing. It's the person themself. If they are mean and vendictive then they will always be no matter who they are. The point of these boards is to support, learn and grow.

I'm not coming to the defense of OW's (for obvious reasons of my own) but I just want to ask you....what about WS's? It takes two. Are you as bitter towards them? How is your relationship with your dad, if you don't mind me asking?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what about WS's? It takes two </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Either way, doesn't matter if it's an OW/OM, MM/MW, hell MOW/Mom they all break apart families. The two who cheat are responsible for it. You say a OW will open her legs for anything that comes along, what does that say about the MM? He will whip it out for anything that comes aklong....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CodyG:
<strong>
When it comes down to it are OW's really that different from each other? They all do the same things...like help break up families. I don't want to hear that BS about the OW not having made the commitment to the family. She didn't but she still has blood on her hands.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cody,
Not all OW's are told that a Wife and Child(ren) exist. Not all OW's know that they are OW's at the time. Not all OW's know that they are breaking up a family because they may have been told there IS NO LONGER a "family" to be broken up.
There are some OW's who think they can go into an A and then end up breaking it off because they know it's wrong and they can't follow through with it.
There are some OW's who enjoy being OW's because they can have their fun and send the MM on his way.

There is a BIG difference between OW's. You've got the Drama Queen OW's, the Rational OW's, the Evil & Vindictive OW's, the Remorseful OW's, the Care-Less OW's, the Obsessive OW's, the Psycho OW's, etc. But you know what Cody? You'll find a variety in "OW"'s because they are INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE.

Not All OW's set out to destroy families.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not All OW's set out to destroy families.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HMMMM. Okay. Negligence does not negate responsibility.

Sorry. No get out of hell free card on that one.

OW are responsible for OW's actions. Period. Because a OW was fed lies for pabulum and not only digested it, but believed it, it is still OW's fault.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> kimmy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Regardless to what, the OW & MM are to blame together....I can have some sympathy for some OW's who were lied to (2 points for Cheerfulone)and then immediately stopped the affair from that point on...but those who KNOWINGLY went into the affair ( knowingly meaning, knowing man was married, had a family, etc.) and continued with this charade, I have no remorse for there pain, MM included. I have no remorse because they are complaining about there kids not being able to spend the holidays with there dads, limited time etc...sorry OW, should of thought about that before u decided to play this game with your childrens lives, the BW's life, and even the sorry a*s MM's life who may have said...I don't think it is a good idea for u to have this baby...but u had it anyway. (MM has no say so in the matter after the fun is over...it is too late...u play with fire ...guess what? U get burned the hell up!!!Take what u get. Suck it up and deal with the sorry consequences.

Sorry to be so blunt...but it is the truth. I know I am off the subject...anyway OW come in all flavors...arrogant, humbled after the fact, confused, bewildered, pyschos, fatal attractions, ...and then there are the misled, the ones who may have meant well...just trying to have a relationship with a man who they thought was free and clear, but then found out otherwise...they then proceed to move on with there lives with this OC who is a product of an affair...having to live with the shame every day for the rest of there lives of what they participated in. (That is punishment enough don't u think? I am sure us BS's can think of other punishments to add to that burning ball of fire.lol) No one is perfect, we all make mistakes.

On a serious note, as adults we sometimes forget that when we make choices, we are governed by those choices, and we then either reap the benefits of these choices or suffer the consequences. That is how it goes.

gofigure I actually agree with some of what you say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Just as YOUR husband was in some sort of "fog"........why is it so much worse that the ow was not in the same? The mm as YOU stated is just as responsible! You go on to forgive your h and see the changes in your husband. What makes it so hard to see that the ow can't change too. LIke for instances in my case.......I was temporarly out of my mind. No excuse. Had never had one before and trust me will NEVER EVER have one again. I know what I did was wrong. I have NO clue what was going through my mind. It took a brick to fall on me to wake me up.....but thank God it did wake me up. I have lived with the conqueses (sp?). I would say I've lived with them more than xmm in my situation. I don't hear you calling your husbands that, nor do I hear you call an xmow that. I hear you saying this about xow. Come on now fair is fair and fault is fault. If you can change your mind about a husband who has done this, you should be able to change your mind about the xow. Remember guys the emotions that go into all this is high and overwhelming. We have to look at our situations and realize that they are not all the same. Nor are people (anybody) made of glass houses. Some of us make whopper mistakes, and some of us make smaller mistakes. A mistake is a mistake and hurts no matter what. It's what you do with those mistakes and your future that really makes a difference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dealan-de:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not All OW's set out to destroy families.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HMMMM. Okay. Negligence does not negate responsibility.

Sorry. No get out of hell free card on that one.

OW are responsible for OW's actions. Period. Because a OW was fed lies for pabulum and not only digested it, but believed it, it is still OW's fault. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kimmy I'd say it's ow/mm fault. PERIOD!

Hello Needtomoveon,

Thanks for your response.

First of all, by no means am I cutting any slack for my H or any other MM who have A's. Believe me, they probably carry way more guilt(after, not during) than u for there participation in an A because they know they are already married. Believe me I am not one-sided about the blame...MM & OW are both to blame. I am probably correct in saying that most BS's blame our H's more because no one put a gun to his head, and told him to go cheat...they married us, not us and OW....yeah we all get lonely, or sad, or whatever other excuses there are for this behavior,but does that mean that we have to go out and have an A? There really is no excuse...if u want to cheat, then dissolve the marriage first, and then run wide and act a fool on your own time. BS's find a way to slowly but surely
( if we choose) forgive OUR H's...to keep the marriage & family together with hopefully a new start based on new morals. Sorry, but we do not have to forgive OW for anything...yes, it probably would help healing wise or whatever...to forgive all parties involved, but that is our choice. I thought I gave my "sorry I got caught up" speech regarding the OW and her being misled, and eventually moving on with her life, but that is as far as it goes. As I said before, everyone makes mistakes, everyone. If I had anything good to say about OW in my situation, then let the praises ring...but I don't because she has done nothing but try to make my life a living hell. I am not saying that all OW are evil & twisted, but in my situation, that's the way it is.

I guess sometimes the truth hurts. The pain is thick for everyone involved...even the people who never asked to be in this situation.

If u want to start a thread about MM and why they are cakemen, in fogs or whatever, be my guest. No harm intended. Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gofigure:
<strong> Take what u get. Suck it up and deal with the sorry consequences.

~~~~~~~~~~~

they then proceed to move on with there lives with this OC who is a product of an affair...having to live with the shame every day for the rest of there lives of what they participated in. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GoFigure,
I can't speak for other OW's but my child and the raising of my child without xMM is not a "Sorry Consequence" in my personal opinion. I feel very lucky and I am very grateful for our child.
And once again, not speaking for other OW's, but I don't live with shame. I had a wonderful person in my life who gave me a wonderful child. I believed a man who lied to me and ended up being part of an A, but I don't live in shame because of it. There are too many great things in life to appreciate rather than dwell on the "shame" that society thinks I should have when it comes to my relationship with xMM.

I consider every day that I have with my son a blessing. Well, except when he's forgotten his meds LOL (he's ADHD). I have NEVER looked at him as a shameful consequence of my actions. He is a consequence of TWO people's actions, and if xMM feels shame - well he owns it then. I'm not proud of what I did, and I would never EVER do it again, but I took the HARD way - knowing that I'd be a single parent, and trust me - he's tough sometimes - but I wouldn't give him up for the world. But shame where he is concerned? NEVER.

No one is saying to be ashamed of your child----I think go figure meant the shame of being in an A, having a relationship w/ a MM.

Hasn't this been said a million times already? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

THAT is what is so heart-breaking for BW---you (ow) STILL get the 'good stuff', kwim?

While WE are left picking up the pieces & cleaning up the mess.

xoxoxo
kt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong> No one is saying to be ashamed of your child----I think go figure meant the shame of being in an A, having a relationship w/ a MM.

Hasn't this been said a million times already? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

THAT is what is so heart-breaking for BW---you (ow) STILL get the 'good stuff', kwim?

While WE are left picking up the pieces & cleaning up the mess.

xoxoxo
kt </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ahh gotcha. Well, I'm past that point - I've forgiven myself, but it wasn't easy. And KT - TRUST ME - I've spent the past 8 years picking up the pieces and cleaning up the mess of what my life used to be. I made a HUGE bad choice, and the way I look at it - in a tongue in cheek sort of way - is that we ALL make stupid decisions in life - I just have permanent proof of mine. And the decision being the A, not my son.
But believe me, it's not all rosy on "my" side. But this is what I signed up for when I decided to go ahead with the pg. So I go on with my life. And do the best I can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Gofigure I never said you had to forgive the ow. That was not my intent. I just took your post as you I explained it. As far as the fog goes........I was using that as a word that was understandable here and all. I meant nothing by it. I guess my point was we are people too. It is great that the bw can put her marriage back together and eventually forgive her h for everything. That takes a lot of strenghth to do so. I was not underminding that either. Forgiveness is a gift to have. I mean that. It's probally one of the hardest things to do, but one of the greatest things to give.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JoshMom:
<strong> I consider every day that I have with my son a blessing. Well, except when he's forgotten his meds LOL (he's ADHD). I have NEVER looked at him as a shameful consequence of my actions. He is a consequence of TWO people's actions, and if xMM feels shame - well he owns it then. I'm not proud of what I did, and I would never EVER do it again, but I took the HARD way - knowing that I'd be a single parent, and trust me - he's tough sometimes - but I wouldn't give him up for the world. But shame where he is concerned? NEVER. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here here. I agree with everything you say. Hey my kids that are from my marriage and don't have drugs to forget are a handfull too sometimes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Don't forget I've been home none stop for there 4 day weekend! It's done nothing but rain that entire time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Again if he feels shame being involved in that your right JM it's his shame. I have no shame for my daughter. In fact I'm cracking up at her right now crawling her little butt off to catch one of the twins!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong> No one is saying to be ashamed of your child----I think go figure meant the shame of being in an A, having a relationship w/ a MM.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kt,
I know that she meant the A and not OC. Still, I don't feel shame about the A. The A is what created my child. I (personally) just can't separate the two and say I feel shame for the A without having it connected to my child.
Heck, I can't even think ill of xMM because he's OC's father. I still think good of him and I remember the good parts of our R. I'm not one to dwell on the bad and I'm definitely not one who lives in shame for anything I have done.
I haven't always made the best choices but I live and learn. No dwelling. But that's me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JoshMom:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong> No one is saying to be ashamed of your child----I think go figure meant the shame of being in an A, having a relationship w/ a MM.

Hasn't this been said a million times already? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

THAT is what is so heart-breaking for BW---you (ow) STILL get the 'good stuff', kwim?

While WE are left picking up the pieces & cleaning up the mess.

xoxoxo
kt </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ahh gotcha. Well, I'm past that point - I've forgiven myself, but it wasn't easy. And KT - TRUST ME - I've spent the past 8 years picking up the pieces and cleaning up the mess of what my life used to be. I made a HUGE bad choice, and the way I look at it - in a tongue in cheek sort of way - is that we ALL make stupid decisions in life - I just have permanent proof of mine. And the decision being the A, not my son.
But believe me, it's not all rosy on "my" side. But this is what I signed up for when I decided to go ahead with the pg. So I go on with my life. And do the best I can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I gottcha too and I can totally agree with JM. I have permament proof of mine as well. I totally agree with that. Nor has it been rosey for me either and it's been hard, but I knew it would be and that is what I signed up for. The things I blame xmm for has nothing to do with most say we complain about. It's about other things that are just uncalled for as two wrongs don't make a right and a ticket to continue the bad choices.

Congratulations Ladies & Gents ,

We were able to have civil disagreements w/o actually ripping each others heads off verbally. That is so refreshing.

Thanks KT & Cheerfulone (yes), for having my back on the being a shame of your child thing....I meant the affair, not the child, as u both clarified. If u r a mother, then u know u will go thru hell and high water for your kids...no matter how they were conceived...I guess its an automatic override.lol. All of the kids are innocent.(OC's & BWs kids) Point blank. They didn't ask to be born into these kinds of circumstances...they didn't have a choice.

I think Cheerfulone actually summed things up best in the Fencesitters post when she said something about a person choosing to dwell on hardships rather than just picking up the pieces and moving on... (that was very deep CFO...all three paragraphs at the end)... easier said than done, but nevertheless, it can be done...we all know it is not healthy to be stressed and miserable, but everyone has there own timeframe as to how they deal with the many situations that occur in this world.
It has been said that when u go thru downs in life, that there is always a bigger and better picture waiting at the end of the road..u know, when one door closes, another one opens....something like that.

The bottom line is, its your life, put it on a pedestal, nurture it, and treat it like gold....life is what u make it.

Take care. I hope I offended no one.