Why do you think that OW's that post on BW's questions and opinions feel they need to stand right up on their soapbox and ramble about trying to see this and trying to see that? They post their opinions about what WE should be doing and feeling. They post comments that are not really wanted. Why do you feel they need to do that. OWs NO NEED TO RESPOND TO THIS but I know of one that will....I really feel that OWs and BWs don't mix, like oil and water. Ows can call me immature and this and that, but I guess in my opinion, your opinions about me or any other BWs don't matter. Ows are the ones that did things wrong, NOT the BWS who chose to stand with their H's and try to piece their marriage back together.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Hurt5-04 ]</small>

Hurt,

I am only speaking for myself here, I have found that most OW are just women who have made some bad choices in life.
The OW in my situation has become my friend.
I know that doesnt happen often. Most people think I am nuts, but it is what works for myself and my family.
My H and her are Tylor's parents. It makes the situation a whole lot easier to deal with.
As for the OW on this board. I have learned alot from some of them. some of them I call my friends.
I think some of them have learned alot from the BW's point of view as well.

Hurt, I too, only speak for myself.. What I've seen here lately is really everyone getting along great, nobody standing up on any soapbox (unless I've missed something?). I would never EVER presume to tell anyone what they would or should be feeling, especially if I've never walked in their shoes. I will however, point out something that (IMO) needs to be pointed out. Like lumping everyone together into one group. I don't think that's fair to anyone. We're all different, our situations are all different. I'm no longer an OW. I'm a Mom first and foremost.

She is talking about me. I took something private with her and asked her why. So Hurt your right the XOW you mentioned is responding. I never once said you should not post what you feel. I just asked you not to lump us. As fpar as what I've done to this society, Hurt I'm forgiven for what I've done with the only person that counts. I am STILL an active member in my communty and do a lot of communty work and have a great support group who know what has happen in my church which is Christain deomonation. I too am no longer a ow and dont' consider myself one. I am a mother first and foremost and put my family and there needs first. It's what a family is all about. I too have not seen any soapboxes here lately either unless I too have missed something. I have learned more than anyone can imagine through talking to Bw's and I was a BW not once but twice. So I have walked in your shoes except I have never had to deal with OC on your side. AS you asked me on another public forum board not to PM you anymore and I quote I'm "blah blah blah", I will grant your request. But maybe just maybe you might want these other bw's on this board know that when you first found this out that I was a friend to you and talked to you forever and ever as well as very understanding with your situation. It was me who spent hours reading your PM's to me and me writing PM's to you too. I was sincere in my words to you and when I Pm'd you last night i was hurt that you would say what you said and lump us all together. I guess if I had not gotten to know you as I did and spent so much time with you It would not have bothered me and I would have taken it public what I thought about what you said.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
<strong> She is talking about me.
AS you asked me on another public forum board </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I get it now. I was reading this thread thinking "What the heck is she talking about? I thought everyone was getting along just fine.".

Hurt, why would you bring something personal with marysway from another board over here? To play martyr? Can't you email or PM her with your request? Why start a board war?

Or better yet:
Just put a little exerpt in your signature line like the other BW who doesn't want to hear from OW's.

I don't see any OW's ever responding to her.


(You're making a public scene!)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What is the big deal if any BW "lumps all ow together" Good grief. You make it seem like in the overall scheme of things the worse thing in the world would be to be called a "STOW"


All ow are the same. They have no problem whatsoever in participating in an affair, that will knowingly hurt another yet, they take no responsibility.

Then they have the oc and look out. The "behave like adults" come trotting out of their mouths "what is best for the children" is another. Yet, those qualities ONLY apply when it serves THEM. Suddenly they see themseleves as victims of some evil man and his more evil wife. Poor poor ow. That is how THEY see themselves. So they come here and pontificate on how injust it is for their child...blah blah blah.....

Ask them how fair it is for your child to have to accept the oc and they will trot out "well that is the fathers fault..." Another one that is standard ow garbage is "...bc will evenutally accept oc....."

OW are different but are all alike.

Well done Lynn

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> What is the big deal if any BW "lumps all ow together" Good grief. You make it seem like in the overall scheme of things the worse thing in the world would be to be called a "STOW"

**JM: I'm not a STOW. I'm a woman, and a mother.

All ow are the same. They have no problem whatsoever in participating in an affair, that will knowingly hurt another yet, they take no responsibility.

**JM: Come on Lynn - that's crap and you know it. Maybe OW that are active in the affair, but I KNOW that there are EX ow (myself included) that accept the responsibility - moreso than their xMM, and feel regret over their actions - that are IN THE PAST.

Then they have the oc and look out. The "behave like adults" come trotting out of their mouths "what is best for the children" is another. Yet, those qualities ONLY apply when it serves THEM. Suddenly they see themseleves as victims of some evil man and his more evil wife. Poor poor ow. That is how THEY see themselves. So they come here and pontificate on how injust it is for their child...blah blah blah.....

**JM: *I* do what is best for my child. *I* take care of him. *I* look out for his best interests. As ANY mother would do for their child.


Ask them how fair it is for your child to have to accept the oc and they will trot out "well that is the fathers fault..." Another one that is standard ow garbage is "...bc will evenutally accept oc....."

**JM: Again. That's lumping all OW/xOW together. I have no problem with NC (now - 7 years ago, I had a problem with it). I don't expect or WANT ANYONE that is not "for" my child to accept him.

OW are different but are all alike. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">**JM: No way.

Lynn, again I'll repeat what JM said. NO WAY. I even think you mentioned one time in one of your post how you know that at least "I love my chidren". Really what this is about...a personal PM I posted to Hurt. I know hurt and have talked to her and have been there for her. It's not about that. It's wrong and you know it to lump everyone together. That would be like me lumping you with ent, or hurt, or anyone else who has contact and has feelings for there oc. KWIM? I don't lump all you guys together. And if you want to go STOW..........let's do it STBW. The majority seem to think that a ow can never change there spots? Now how hypicritical is that? How fair is that? That is like saying a mm will never change his spots. That to is not true. Your husband changed his? Right? KT, changed his right? Most here have changed theres. Let's play fair here and see what the meaning of this thread was really about okay?

Bottom line is this is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site, not a site for OW to complain or badger a spouse making decisions to their marriage.

In the marriage the ow, is not a concern. If you change your spots, so be it. It is no concern or care for the couple in the marriage. We, as BS can forgive our spouses, and move on from an affair. The marriage owes the ow nothing. No consideration. No concern. No respect. Nothing. What happens, good bad or indifferent to the ow is a moot point. She doesn't count and doesn't matter. She may matter in her own family, but in the marriage that is healing, she is nothing.

As for loving your children. Well, I would think so. I think you do. Of course I do. What I don't understand is why so many ow get so unglued when the family chooses no contact, see's the oc as a mistake. Suddenly it seems it is up to the wife and her children to make the oc life all warm and fuzzy.

I hear over and over the "act like an adult" spoken by many an ow. What it means is the betrayed spouse shoud accept the oc no matter what it does to her or her children. That everyone needs to act "adult" really means that everyone should cow-tow to the ow/oc cause the oc is "innocent". Totally disregarding the wife and her children.

Lumping ow together is quite simple, they are all alike. They are women who think nothing of participating in the hurt of another. That sums it up in a nutshell.

This being a marriage builders site, what does it matter anyway? What/how the ow feels about anything doesn't really matter anyway. Here, the only feelings and concerns are for those couples who are rebulding their marriages. Their decisions are made by them and what is best for them. Nowhere are the needs/wants of an ow even worth a thought.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> Bottom line is this is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site, not a site for OW to complain or badger a spouse making decisions to their marriage.

~~~~NTMO: I don't see anyone badgering anyone about making decisions regarding there marriage and that is not what this thread is about.

In the marriage the ow, is not a concern. If
you change your spots, so be it. It is no concern or care for the couple in the marriage. We, as BS can forgive our spouses, and move on from an affair. The marriage owes the ow nothing. No consideration. No concern. No respect. Nothing. What happens, good bad or indifferent to the ow is a moot point. She doesn't count and doesn't matter. She may matter in her own family, but in the marriage that is healing, she is nothing.

~~~~NTMO: Again, that is not what this thread is about. I don't recall anyone bringing that up either. It's about lumping people all in the same group.
As for loving your children. Well, I would think so. I think you do. Of course I do. What I don't understand is why so many ow get so unglued when the family chooses no contact, see's the oc as a mistake. Suddenly it seems it is up to the wife and her children to make the oc life all warm and fuzzy.

~~~NTMO: That was never said either. You seem to always bring that into the threads where a xow is involved in it. The mother of that child can make oc life all warm and fuzzy.

I hear over and over the "act like an adult" spoken by many an ow. What it means is the betrayed spouse shoud accept the oc no matter what it does to her or her children. That everyone needs to act "adult" really means that everyone should cow-tow to the ow/oc cause the oc is "innocent". Totally disregarding the wife and her children.

~~~~~~~~~NTMO: I've never ever once said that acting like an adult is cow-tow down to anyone. That is not being an adult. That is being selfish. Again this thread is not about contact vs. no contact.

Lumping ow together is quite simple, they are all alike. They are women who think nothing of participating in the hurt of another. That sums it up in a nutshell.

~~~~~~~~NTMO: I disagree. I think your nutshell has cracked.

This being a marriage builders site, what does it matter anyway? What/how the ow feels about anything doesn't really matter anyway. Here, the only feelings and concerns are for those couples who are rebulding their marriages. Their decisions are made by them and what is best for them. Nowhere are the needs/wants of an ow even worth a thought. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes Lynn I know we are not worth a thought to you. That is not the case with everyone though.
You have made this point over and over even when (as in this case) not what the thread is about. All I'm asking of you is to please see what the thread is really about and play fair with your words. Is that really to much to ask?

Lynn,

If every one was the same, then their would not be so many diverse situations. All MM are not thinking of the family when they have an affiar. Does it mean they can never redeem themselves and be a family again? Of course not, Every one makes bad choices in their lives. We all learn from them and move on. What else can you do?

The only thing that doesnt change is two people made a bad choice. I dont know, my family and friends do not ever refer to me as a Former OW! They Just think I am a mother, friend, co-worker, student. No different than MM, JUst a person who made a bad choice. I dont think any one has to act like an adult, unless of course you choose contact. must mean your willing to be a good parent, other wise why bother? In that case, yes everyone needs to act like an adult, because you have the wellbeing of a child to think of OR if their are children of the marriage. Then they will handle things as they see you handle things.

I do not see myself as a victim of any thing or any one, I believe we make our own life. Meaning no matter what took place, I believe I am responsible for me. I am responsible for my children, it just so happens we share responsibility for one.

Of COURSE people change. The XMM can be forgiven by his wife and family if he is sincere, etc.

Of COURSE YOUR friends and family don't think of you as an ow. But want the truth? YOU ARE SEEN AS AN OW within the marriage of your XMM and his friends and family. THEY will see you as an ow and all that entails. Does it matter what they think of you? Of course not.

This is a MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE. And I find it amazing that with all the emotions, pain and upheaval some woman is feeling, an OW is upset at being "lumped in with other ow.." Come on.

This IS STOW behavior. ME ME ME ME ME. Who cares if an ow is lumped in with others? This is a MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE. Not a site to coddle the ow. Once again. The ow is NOTHING to the marriage. You want support and high fives, the go to your friends and family. Just as his wife and family forgave him and sees him as a loving father and husband, your family and friends will see you as such. But you can hardly expect HIS family and friends to see you in a positive light. Just as many OW families are upset when the XMM and his family turns their backs on the ow/oc. IT IS CALLED REALITY.

This message was about OW trying to ram their thoughts and how a wife SHOULD be feeling and I agree with Hurt 5-04. Also, she clearly stated she did not want OW responging and look what you all did???

STOW behavior ladies. Just read this post. Some BW is hurting about something and all a OW can think of is how SHE feels about being portrayed as an STOW....how dare she be lumped, yada yada yada.

STOW....perfect example above

Lynn, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

NTMO---what is the big deal about being lumped with other ow? Really?

What is the point? How does how an OW feel, rebuild a marriage? What good does it do for the marriage?

And, since she specificaly stated she didn't want any OW answering, why did you answer it? To stir her up? To bug her? To dig at her?

This woman, for whatever reason, is hurting and is on a MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE, asking why we think ow post their needs here. What is wrong with that?

I, as a BW, clearly believe that OW come here to whine about how THEY and the oc are treated. How unfair the XMM and his evil wife are to the oc, etc. I find it simply amazing that many ow can't grasp the plain and simple fact that they are not wanted, or thought of in the marriage.

I firmly and with resolve will always tell these poor betrayed wives that what the ow wants/needs is NOTHING to them. THE WIFE and her wishes are all that she needs to concern herself with, along with those of her family. Is that a problem with you? Is she supposed to worry/care about what an ow thinks or wants? Should she completely alter her own beliefs and wishes to accomodate an ow? Hardly.

I can see my mom now..."Respect, courtesy, and manners!!! You don't have to like what you hear, but you DO have to mind what you say!" I agree with her.

I've been here for several years, but this last year has been pretty nasty...and with certain someones consistently staring through crosshairs, taking aim.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

It's very sad to see.

Lynn first of all, you don't know the whole story and frankly you don't care so I won't go into it. As well it's betwen her and I. It was not to stirr her up in fact quite the oppitsite. Sometimes if you could just go out of the box once in awhile instead of staying in the box. We are all woman going through something simular and can learn from each other. Do we all agree with each other? NO. Can we have civil debates, conversations and learn abosultely. You automaticly think that because someone is an ow or has been that they just want contact and stay in the business of the marriage and care nothing about anyone but themself. That is so far from the truth. Every Thread that an ow posts on you automatcly respond with the same thing. stow, contact vs. no contact. Ow only cares about herself and oc. regardless of what the thread is about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As ANY mother would do for their child.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JM - so sorry, but VERY untrue. A more aptly put statement would amend that to say, "As most mothers would do for their children."

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am so glad your ds has such a staunch supporter as you are! But unfortunately, A LOT of us here have STOWs as opposed to having FOWs. That "f" for former means so much to me personally. That is your part in the affair that you take responsibility for and therefore can be forgiven of. Not that you need MY personal forgiveness - it's just that it...oh jeez...what are the words? It makes you approachable. It makes you...um...what/how do I say this??? It enables me to say, "yep, that sucks all the way around, but hey?! She's a great person now."

I've a friend on one of these boards who happens to be a FOW. I knew she was a FOW from day one. But her past decisions/behaviors, while they sucked rocks, were PAST. Her decisions/behaviors TODAY and her determination to make certain she NEVER harmed anyone else with that kind of selfish behavior again is what endears her to me. I ADORE her. I'd trust her with my babies...and more, I'd trust her around my H (as far as we're supposed to according to SH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What/how the ow feels about anything doesn't really matter anyway. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since there are FOW here that are trying to re-build their own marriages, some of whom have OC, I think their viewpoints/feelings DO matter. Very muchly so. They have as much a right to be here as I do, or as anyone who wants to make their marriages stronger and safer do. JMHO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can see my mom now..."Respect, courtesy, and manners!!! You don't have to like what you hear, but you DO have to mind what you say!" I agree with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen OB1. No wonder you have a sensei's initials. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

- Kimmy

Respect Courtesy Manners.....had all the ADULTS in this situation acted in such a manner, there would not have been a problem.

As for the ow. If there is a FOW here, rebuilding her marriage, would you be telling her she has to listen to the XMM and be concerned for what it is he wanted? How her decisions she makes with her husband IN THEIR marriage need to consider XMM feelings? Doubt it.

I am wondering why there are so many ow on a message that this wife did not want them on? She clearly wants insight from BW as to why WE think ow are on here.

As for my feelings on ow's. I want to warn each and every newbie to not get caught up in the maniulative ow drama. That they do not have to do or concern themselves with what an ow thinks they should do. Especially THEIR ow.

I am making sure they know that the OW is not part of their marriage, and therefore her wishes/needs don't matter. What's wrong with that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Respect Courtesy Manners.....had all the ADULTS in this situation acted in such a manner, there would not have been a problem.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No argument here. So how do you change it? How do you go into the past and change the stupid choices, the hurting words, the thoughtless behavior?

I cannot change what is already done. I CAN, however, impact the present and the future. I CAN control how I behave from this moment on. That's all any of us can do. For me, I choose to extend respect courtesy and manners. It's funny how much more you can accomplish that way.