CLO: Awhile back you advised me and my H to use a "parent communication log book" to communicate with XOW regarding any non-emergency issues with OC.

My H bought OC a backpack to use for school and overnights with us. He put a notebook inside labeled as the communication logbook. He informed XOW that it was there. He puts any pertinent info in there. Mostly just things that we've worked on during the weekends (like learning her alphabet, her name, etc.) or pictures she's colored. Occasionally he'll list any issues OC had while at our home. This weekend it was that OC expressed anger with my H for abandoning her for eight months. My H told OC that it wasn't her fault, that he had no control over whether or not he got to see her, that he loved her and he would try not to let it happen again. He noted this in the book.

XOW has not written one thing in the book. Every time she calls with info, my H requests that she write it in the book instead of calling him about it. XOW said she thought the book was weird, and didn't want to use it. H insisted, XOW seemed irritated but said she would "just deal with it".

Well, last night XOW called about his note. She asked "what exactly did you say to OC?". My H said he wrote it all down in the book and that is what he said to OC.

XOW: "You told OC that you didn't have control?"

My H: "Yes."

XOW became furious with him. She started to yell.

My H: "I do not want to comminicate directly with you unless it's an emergency. When we speak, we fight. I do not want to fight with you, that is why I thought the notebook would work. I don't want to deal with you anymore."

XOW: "It doesn't work that way. You have to deal with me. OC is package deal. You deal with her, you deal with me."

My H: "It doesn't work because you won't even try it. You refuse to write in the notebook."

XOW: "I didn't refuse."

My H: "You haven't written anything...that is refusing."

XOW (yelling now): "You made your bed, now you have to lie in it! Face it! You have to talk to me or-"

My H: "Or what? You'll take her away again? This is why I don't want to talk to you....we get into a fight and then I don't get to see her anymore. Why can't you just write in the book? And while you insist on discussing issues directly, why aren't you getting her to school at eight-thirty like her teachers ask? I don't understand!"

XOW: "It's in my contract that she has to be there by nine!"

My H: "But her teachers say in order for her to catch up they would like her there at eight-thirty. So, you aren't taking her needs into consideration because nine o'clock is in your contract?"

XOW: "Don't you dare tell me how to raise my daughter."

Then she hung up on him. My H called her back to make sure he could still have OC for the weekend. XOW said she wouldn't take the visitation away again, my H said he hoped that was the truth. Then she hung up again. That's just part of the conversation, but mostly she was screaming and kept hanging up on him and then calling back.

This is the kind of drama I didn't want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I don't understand, why won't she write in the book? Will a judge look at this as blatant resistence to communicate effectively on her part, or will the judge tell my H to suck it up and just deal with dealing with her directly?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Well, that pretty much sucks, doesn't it!!!

I know EXACTLY what you're going through. I have an ex who's ex-W was just as you described the OW in your case being. (see...it's not just an OW thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

It was VERY stressful on our relationship, and our time with his kids. She had no rules, they were spoiled rotten, and whenever he(or we) tried to discuss things with her, she made it very clear that she had no intention of being any way other than she had been. Yep, it was basically "I'm the mother, suck it up".

It used to make me CRAZY ANGRY.

I don't know about the court where you are but here there wasn't anything we could do about it.

Eventually it was a very big factor in our split.

I think you and your H doing things as you have been is the best course of action because it consistently shows an effort to make the situation work.

Good Luck!!

I guess she didn't understand the whole point of the communication log! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


I would look into a mediator at this point. She can't follow simple instructions like "Communicate through a book, not on the phone" so I would go the next step and get a mediator, arrange it through the courts and just hang up on her when she calls.

Sorry that you're dealing with this. It's terrible that she can't do this simple thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ugh! KEEP using the log book. DON'T stop & when it looks like the book will be full-KEEP IT & get another one.

Even if OC mom does not use it, it will be a good record of situations & things up to that point.

Our OW hardly wrote in the log either. Therapist made it very clear to us (ALL of US) the reason for the book & OW agreed (as usual) but never wrote in it. That is when the therapist advised exactly what I wrote in the first paragraph.

OC mom MAY see it as a 'trick' for you to keep tabs on her. REally it's to keep tabs on OC & O Cprogress but I don't think anything you say will change OW perception.

Also document the phone conversations.

The therapist said she had used this saem technique (log book) for her own children after her divorce & it went in her favor in court.

Yes, if your courts offer mediation....use it. They can be very helpful sometimes. It can work wonders to hear the same POV but from a nuetral 3rd party. Not always, but it can be helpful.


xoxoxox
kt

PS: Therapist also recommended a 'bullet notes' log as well w/ this kind of info:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">overall behavior/mood</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">meals/food eaten</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">special events or occurances</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">miscellaneous</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">specefic behavior patterns (ie: bed wetting/nightmares)</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Ugh!!

When my H picked OC up from daycare, the notebook was no longer in her back pack! It's gone.

Not only that, but XOW has called my H once a day since their initial argument to tell him what time she got OC to school each morning and other useless facts....Calling and calling and calling some more.

On top of that, the tension between my H and I seems to be increasing at an amazing rate. We're starting to bicker and snap at eachother a lot.

I'm trying hard to be understanding of his mood, I know it's hard for him to deal with XOW, especially when she seems to be baiting him. But, I feel like he takes it out on me. And boy, does that make me burn! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I told him last night, I don't want C with XOW/OC to ruin our marriage. He doesn't want it either, but still we fight. It is beginning to feel like my H is not going to be able to have both C and M - and I don't want him to have to choose. But, I don't know how much more our relationship can take. The more XOW pushes, the more my H and I fight.

I laid the girls' clothes out last night, I was rummaging through everything they've got and started to realize that our supply of clothing is getting awfully thin. It's been over a month since we've started keeping OC and XOW is still sending her in clothing that's too small.

OC and our DD both wear the same size. Every time we send OC to XOW's in something cute or something that fits, we don't ever see it again. And now, we're going to have to go clothes shopping again.

I'm so frustrated. At this point I feel as though C is going to kill my marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

^

Shameless, I know....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him last night, I don't want C with XOW/OC to ruin our marriage. He doesn't want it either, but still we fight. It is beginning to feel like my H is not going to be able to have both C and M - and I don't want him to have to choose. But, I don't know how much more our relationship can take. The more XOW pushes, the more my H and I fight. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gee, tell me about the fighting. Low and behold this past friday I was enfuriated w/my stepchildrens' mother (not oc) because of all the slack and mess I have to clean up for her/her children. I love them -no doubt- and take care of them out of love-- but I feel I am getting taken advantage of and H NEEDS TO PUT his foot down. So.... we didn't talk all weekend and it just escallates. In addition, we cloth,feed, drive, doctors, etc... for my stepchildren (one lives w/us, one still with her mother) -- and the clothes thing.. psssf- I live at the Goodwill buying sacks of clothes because my stepdaughter comes in yuky stuff and then takes her nice clothes home. No problem with that, if I wasn't already broke from supporting everyone's children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, these irritating things happen even without an OC situation.

Now, ADD ONTO THE NORMAL EX AND KID CRAP....because this is an OW STALKING your H-- and she is CALLING him all the time (oh big freeeaking no-no)... no log book ETC ETC.. how the heck can you stay "up" and positive all the time?

Like I told my H-- HOW THE H*LL do you suppose you'd take all this CRAP? Do a little rollplay w/H-- and make him sit and pretend YOU HAD THE OC from your womb-- and HE had to take this crap sweet and kindly. You could just have a hotline to your xOM and he'd be okay with that?? I THINK NOT.

You are catching me on a bad day AVictim because I am SICK and TIRED of all of this also.

Yes OC nees this abnd that and everything else but so do YOU and YOURS and YES sometimes the OC and the M cannot co-exist. These situations are a mess most of the time.

IT IS NOT YOU who will be making him "choose" between you and OC. It is his prior and CONTINUED insensitive behaviour (i.e. making YOU feel like a meanie because you are having a tough time with this utter bullsh*t). As I say a lot- many if not most of these situations can and will be the unltime demise of your marriage-- the OW and the antics and the pain, etc-- will pick and poke at you and eventually crumble you both down. NOT ALWAYS but many times-- its just a no win situation with CONTACT!!!! (except for OC's sake which is great - but what about you and yours???)

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

I can totally relate to the arguing and bickering that goes on while dealing with c with oc. It's been over a month since we have seen oc and I can say it has been extremely peaceful. During the time that we were keeping him when ow couldn't provide H and I arugued constantly because of c. C with oc means contact with ow. It's a stressful situation to be put in for anyone involved and it is difficult to make work. All the love in the world for oc is not worth the breakdown of your marriage period! Ow only wanted us involved with oc if it was at her beck and call, and I was getting tired of ow thinking she was going to call all the shots. The day ow picked child up with the cops I told her then and there that I was through until something was established legally. We only called to say Happy Birthday to oc. she had her sister call advising us that oc was going out of town for a couple of months with the aunt until ow could get on her feet. I think she thought that it would get our attention again, but we just ignored it. I refuse to let this situation get the best of me or my marriage, so c has been stopped until our court date. We tried to make it work without getting the courts in it but it just wouldn't work. I was getting too frustrated, and the mess they made is just that, why must I pick up the pieces?

Gio et al:

Ebay, ebay, ebay. All the kids play clothes and some of their "nicer" stuff come off of ebay.

If oc is younger you can find "lots" of clothing in various size ranges (ex: 24mo-3T all in one lot). I once bought a lot of 15 pieces for my youngest for $7 plus shipping (around $10 total).

Can't beat that with a big stick, eh?

Oh, and I'm NOT above asking the tart for mija's clothes back....of course most of the time they aren't the same color anymore - usually anything that goes to her house doesn't get washed again till it comes back to mine...even tho it's worn multiple times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Thank everything holy for OxyClean. I shudder to think what mija's pretty pink jacket will look like next time I see her. The tart didn't send the kids with jackets last time (or long pants). Did I say ARGH today?

I'm gonna have to talk to Nio about the book. That seems a good idea, but I'm pretty sure OW would freak monkeys...she seems to live to be able to drag us into her drama.

- Kimmy

This was one of my parents main concerns. To have contact meant being in conflict constantly. Even with a court order she still found a way to cause trouble. In the end it wasn't worth it.

If the OW is really interested in having a father in OC's life she would not be causing trouble. Hell she should be bending over backwards and making herself scarce to make things easier. IMO it's not worth fighting for contact if the STOW is causing any trouble what so ever. It's not worth the PEACE you have to give up. In the end the STOW will be 100% responsible for OC not having a father because she could not act like an adult.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hell she should be bending over backwards and making herself scarce to make things easier. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've said this in so many words over and over.

If I were an xow, let alone the embarassment having to face the W, etc.... I'd be sooo freaking gracious!!! I'd know I helped cause the situation and humble myself.

No one has to kiss butt.. but just YES trust the guy with his kid-- and know that people don't let even a BS abuse or hurt their Oc! (unless terribly SICK PERSON)

And also can women just have the pride to send their kids in things that are not dirty and gross-- I'd make sure my kids were perfectly clean, tidy and have nice things-- this is a reflection of us as parents, anyway.....

Kimmy--- I buy beautiful clothes at the Goodwill and swear by it for my stepdaughter. Little girls stuff there is awesome! I am not checking ebay or anywhere else because my love for "other children" is not going to change-- but my pocketbook is CLOSED to EVERYONE for now. I am BROKE and sick of dishing out and not having enough for my OWN blood son. grrr bad mood t'day!

Gio - from your mouth to God's ears sister! I hear you on the closed purse (tho I do ebay for my hair supplies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'd make sure my kids were perfectly clean, tidy and have nice things-- this is a reflection of us as parents, anyway..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know! You wouldn't believe the stuff she sends the kids in...too small, excessivly dirty (and she DOES have a washer). I always make sure the kids are clean and their hair is neat when I send them home hoping she'll see how beautiful they are and at least attempt some hygeine. (sigh)

It bugs me when my DD's hair is messy and we're going somewhere....I wouldn't be able to breathe if I had 6 all dirty.....I mean, I'd effin go nuts with the comb!

- Kimmy

HA! My kids are always doing that thing where they jerk away like "GET OFF ME ALREADY - MY HAIR IS FINE" ! LOL !

They are too old for the lick fingers thing so I just use dry ones now! haaaaaa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CodyG:
<strong> Even with a court order she still found a way to cause trouble. In the end it wasn't worth it.

If the OW is really interested in having a father in OC's life she would not be causing trouble. Hell she should be bending over backwards and making herself scarce to make things easier. IMO it's not worth fighting for contact if the STOW is causing any trouble what so ever. It's not worth the PEACE you have to give up. In the end the STOW will be 100% responsible for OC not having a father because she could not act like an adult. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This could be a page right out of my own life story!!!!!!

Amen brother!!!
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AVNL---if C continues......send OC home in the clothes she came in. When you have her, she can change into something nice, decent & properly fitting @ your home but send her back in what she came in.

Gio---right there w/ ya' @ the thrift store!!!!!! ESPECIALLY for GILRS!!!!!!!! Beautiful dresses are to be had for a dime a dozen! LOL Clothes...clothes...clothes.....You can't even imagine all the wonderful hand-me-downs I get---WHY???? Because GIRLS have WAY too MUCH!!!!!!!!! Actually, I rarely BUY ANY clothes for my kids becuase they get SO many great hand-me-downs!

It's like letting everyone else buy the ktbunch name-brand clothes! LOL Ds #2 just got about 15 (no lie!!!) pairs of shoes from 1 friend, little doc martens, numerous converse & vans. They were all in about only 2 different sizes....That is just WAY too many shoes for a little boy---needless to say, they were barely worn! LOL

Go ahead people, SPOIL your kids...I'll be right there to pick up the left-overs! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

xoxoxo
kt

Thanks for all the responses....but, it doesn't seem like there's any hope.....does anyone have a positive story of Contact??

KT: My H doesn't want to send her back in the clothes she came in because he drops her off at pre-school and wants to make a good impression with the teachers. Plus, he's embarrassed....I don't blame him, the stuff XOW sends her in is, well, AWFUL.

It doesn't seem like there is any way to protect my family!

We've spent more money on OC in the past months than the rest of our children combined! Goodwill, all the way, but even that gets expensive if you're going once a month!!

My H and I are having much difficulty with this. I don't know how to keep XOW's antics from destroying us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't know why XOW insists on behaving like a spoiled child. Lately, I've had a lot of hatred for this woman.

I don't know how to handle things from here. My H and I talked this afternoon and we've decided to put another notebook (for communication with XOW) in OC's overnight bag and start photocopying the pages in case it disappears again. I changed my H's cell phone number this morning so she can't call him there anymore. My H promised me that as soon as the paperwork is finalized he will be more up front with XOW and tell her to knock it off.

We'll see, lately I don't feel like my H and I are a team anymore. I can't stand feeling like I have to tiptoe around XOW and her moods. I shouldn't have to censor myself at all when it comes to her, she shouldn't be calling my house!!

ARGH!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Honey do you think that maybe that is a ploy for her to force you the buy the child more clothes?

I would just return her with the clothes she came to you in to preschool handing a note to her teacher for the XOW saying please send the clothes we bought her back or some decent clothes for the child to wear to school.

Then the teacher would know why the child was dressed so badly.
If you wanted her to, the teacher would also note that in the child records probably. This way you can tell the Teacher as a favor to your husband so the OW cant claim she never got the note to pass it along. This would prob prompt the support of the school for you and your husband.

Cordelia,

That's sounds like a good idea, and if I were the one in control of things I would do exactly that. In fact, I would do many things differently than my H.

I will talk to my H about that, although I'm sure he won't go for it - at least until the hearing is over and things are finalized. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

There are just days when I feel like this is going to be a never-ending nightmarish power struggle. When I know it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

Sometimes I truly believe that the world would be a better place if women were in control of things... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The OW wil handle things for you just fine... right.. AV????

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This situation STINKS.

I COMPLETELY feel for you. I mean, how hard is it to sit and shut up while your H is helping the mess to stay put--- and even HARDER is listening to him and OW bicker and argue as if they are a couple or something????

Not to mention- you are his guiding light in many home/family/child issues, so just letting him handle or mishandle this crap eats you alive.

I go through this with my H's ex (mother of my 2 stepchildren). I have learned to just let him deal with her stupid, immature, a p*ss-poor mothering skills and her irresponsibility. Thats one compartment in my life that I learned to let go of! However---- I have no bad feelings or hurt involved with her-- if it were OW... arg... how do we control our temper on these issues?

Do you control your temper mostly, or mostly lose it? Just curious because I am never sure if I have a bad temper, or if its normal to act like a maniac and lose it when dealing w/this GARBAGE thats been dumped on our lawn???

Gio, I have a very hard time keeping my temper. What makes it worse is that I cannot vent to my H. He gets angry and defensive with me. He says I need to seperate OC and XOW (which doesn't make sense to me because I feel I do), I think he feels guilty and when the situation upsets me he feels responsible and then feels the need to defend his stance.

I hate listening to them bicker. There are many days I think about just walking away. I love him, but I'm not sure how long I can take this. I'm open to whatever happens, even if it means my marriage will end and I'll be alone.

I have tried to keep OC best interests at heart, but I truly feel this is more than even her mother gives her. Which makes it even more difficult, because my H is coddling XOW and ends up bowing down to her, this doesn't help OC at all.

The more they're in contact, the worse things get between my H and I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

All of this just brings back so many painful feelings. Right now I feel my whole life is in limbo. And my guts don't feel right, but I can't decided if it's my H's behavior or XOW's behavior that is causing me discomfort, perhaps both.

I don't know...I'm confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />