I haven't disappeared from the face of the earth in case any of you were wondering. I was unexpectedly taken out of town for several days. I was stricken with the news that H and OW are still hot and heavy in the A. Boy, it's amazing how things can change at the drop of a dime and send you into a tail spin of uncontrollable emotions. You'll all be happy to note that I'm starting intense IC and H is starting IC sometime this week so that we can get our own lives figured out before we make a step towards a life together, if that step is even there to take.

Very sorry to hear the news, Michele, but glad you came back and posted. After your comments last week and your absence, I was afraid something might have happened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Breathe in, breathe out.

Lost, been thinking about you and hoping that you're doing ok! Saw that Mrs. Lost posted but haven't really had the time to read through all the posts that I've missed for the past week. Would like to talk to you some more about your situation because I've learned quite a bit the past week. Do you welcome personal e-mails?

If you're not comfortable discussing it here (keep in mind how much it can help the lurkers!), you can certainly email me, but we would need to copy Flukeboy during the discussion for accountability for me.

Lost, it's not that I have anything to hide from the lurkers but I guess my hope is that you will personally open up to me (even though you don't know me from Joe Blow) and be totally honest and I'm not sure that you're doing that now posting here. I know you must hate living your life the way you're living it and your story/situation is almost mirror-image to that of mine. Flukeboy can be cc'd if you feel like you can be completely honest with him.

Not only can I be totally honest with Flukeboy, if I'm ever not, somehow he can tell immediately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> He's said I've done a good job getting everything out in the open here so far, and he knows it all.

If you think I and my M could benefit from your insight, or vice versa, we could certainly discuss it in email. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

I have no idea how to look up your e-mail (or if it's even posted under your profile) but mine is so I don't mind posting it here. Send me a Hi or something at michelerhall2001@yahoo.com and I'll email you back.

Hi Michele,

Our discussion in email today has been interesting, and I feel OK about talking about it on the forum -- certainly nothing more personal than I've already disclosed!

Is it OK with you if I post the email thread here, and we keep talking in the forum? I think it could be of interest to others in these situations.

Let me know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Not a problem Lost. We can post here. I'm glad (and actually quite impressed) with the fact that you've recognized the issues at hand. Has this been the first real time you've looked at your actions dead on or have you come to these realizations in the past, only to relapse? I understand you're in IC now. That's an excellent start.

It's been a long process. I've made a lot of connections in the last six months though -- not soon enough to avoid the relapse, unfortunately.

You asked in our email if speaking with OW helps soothe any emptiness. All I feel right now toward her is regret and bitterness -- really. Since she's pushing the NC thing even today at work (steering necessary work-related stuff to the baby, etc.), I can say readily that I feel sick and stressed hearing from her. In the past though, when the A was going on, yes, she was a comfort to me, though over time that comfort became more and more transparent; it was increasingly clear that it was my neediness, not love of any kind between us, that led me to seek her.

Maybe this might be a ? for the Missus...since she would've been outside looking in on your behavior pre-A and beginning A, but was there a trigger where you just gave up?

For Nio, it came to a head after a series of unfortunate and stressful events ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). First, his brother who had downs was hospitalized for months with pneumonia...we thought he was going to die at many points during his hopitalization. Then I got pg with #3 - that in itself was joyous beyond belief, but I had complications resulting in our deciding to not have anymore babies after him - we'd both wanted a huge, kid filled family, and were crushed (me more than him...he actually got a taste of loosing me right after son was born because of birth realted complications, and was very vehement about our decision). When our ds was 4 mo. old, his mother was diagnosed with stomach cancer. She passed when he was 7 mo. old. We decided to take temp custody of my bil and moved into my mil's house so that he would not have to move out to the country and miss out on the special needs programs that were in the city. That meant putting our brand new house on the market....for months. Vandals broke into our house and burned it to the ground, and insurance only covered the cost of the house, not the interest. 2 weeks before his mother passed, Nio took leave at the sheriff's office where he was a deputy, to run her businesses - 2 pubs. He decided not to return to being a PO, and took the businesses over. They were failing. My grandfather passed, and we had a new home built that was better suited for our bigger family. But he was never home...we'd literally see each other in passing. All of the above coupled with the grief of loosing his mother, and beginning to drink himself silly were contributing factors.

All of those bad things happened within months of each other. We'd literlly be regaining some balance in our lives, when BANG! Hit again.

None of them are excuses, but rather they enable me to step back and recognize why he broke. And he did break. I often wonder why I didn't break also...

So, did you break too Lost, or what were the failings in your life that allowed you to do the things you've done?

I swear I'm not throwing stones...I am genuinely interested as I think that people do have breaking points - else or there is always something deeper that led to their bad decisions.

Many thanks for your attention,
Kimmy

It may have been a little of both, Kimmy. As NotTooLost mentioned, I've overcome with some successs many addictive behaviors -- drinking (rarely), pornography (never), spending (still a struggle), etc. If there was anything that built up to a "breaking point," it may have been that the loss of these coping mechanisms led to the depression that preceded my A. I further look at my sexual history and see that in many ways, it fits that same "comfort" pattern that the other addictions do.

As I relayed to Michele in email:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right after my parents' divorced, when I was eight, we were staying with my mom's uncle and his family for a while. My 14-year-old step-cousin (a girl) and I spent several weeks that summer sneaking around, heavy petting, and even slept together naked one night. Looking back, I see how abusive that was, especially at that age. I bitterly felt the abandonment and rejection of my father (an alcoholic and serial adulterer), and the feelings of acceptance and care and intimacy were powerful with my cousin; I now know that that age in particular is a crucial time in the development of sexual attitudes and values.

It certainly seemed to shape my attitudes. I had sex for the first time at thirteen, and had many sexual partners (often cheating on girlfriends) throughout high school and college. I now can look back at all the sexual experiences I had as a kid and even later and see that in some way, it's recreating that experience with my step-cousin. Weird, I know. But for whatever reason, sexuality and affection are definitely my highest emotional needs -- it speaks right to me, ten-to-one the most powerful feelings of being loved I can have. When those needs went unfulfilled for various reasons in my marriage (they certainly aren't my W's highest needs), without realizing it I became more and more susceptible to an A. To the point that, despite all her many shortcomings, the affection and sexual relationship with OW really pulled me. It's taken a lot of reading and prayer and therapy to see that as the bio-chemical response it was.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So it's kind of both, I guess. Why do some give in under certain circumstances and others don't? I'm sure life history, upbringing, etc. are big factors. But like Dr. Harley says, virtually ANYBODY can give in to an A under the "right" conditions.

BTW, we're scheduling an appointment with Dr. Harley for Thursday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

Thank you for your candor.

Michelle,

I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am. I know the pain you are going through and I know it's horrible. Please take care of yourself. What has happened? Where is H?

Wife30, unfortunately I'm unable to go into details as to what has happened over the past week or so (just trust me on that one...you'll all eventually find out) but what I can tell you is that I found out A is still going on and H has some very deep emotional issues that he has finally admitted to and is wanting to face head on through the help of IC. As it stands today, H is moving in with his mother temporarily and I'm staying at the house with the kids. We are awaiting word on IC (because I've been instructed to go to my own as well) and are anxiously awaiting it. OW (or "girlfriend" as she has stated she prefers) and her H are now separated as well and all 4 of us are trying to step back from this horrid situation and deal with our very own issues from the inside out. How do I know this? I've been in direct contact with OW and OW's H. They are seeking IC as well and it should start soon too. I have no idea what's going to happen, I have no idea if my marriage can be saved (if you can even call what I've had a marriage), all I know is that I have to work on ME because I've put myself aside through all of this and I've really damaged myself from that aspect.

I'm so sorry Michelle.

(((squidges)))

That seems to be the hardest thing for me is knowing what will make me happy. I've spent so long focussing on a life w/ H and now it just seems I can't find what makes me happy. I feel like I also have lost myself, and I'm just not sure where to start to put things back together. I am in IC, I just started again, I'm just not sure how much it's helping.

Whoa! I can't imagine what has happened BUT I am so sorry.

Yes, do take care of yourself. THe IC can't hurt & I bet some 'you' time w/ a big sugary sweet cinnabon & a pedicure would be very therapuetic too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care of yoruself & your kidbits.

xoxoxo
kt