I just joined the site, and had been looking for something like this anyways to post my feelings and try to get some feedback from some unbiased people. I'm gonna try to do my best to sum up my situation, and then you guys and gals can have at it. K, here goes...

I have been with my girlfriend for almost 6 years. She has two daughters from previous relationships, 16, and 10. The youngest daughter lost her father to a heart attack about 4 years ago. We have had our share of ups and downs, but have always managed to salvage our relationship. A few years ago I left and lived out of the home for about 7 months. We would still see eachother, and tried to renew the feelings and love we once had. At the end of the 7 months I decided that maybe it was time I move back in. Well, I did, and we still had our weekly issues, but we were both confident that what we were doing was the right thing.

The main reason I am writing here, in this forum, is this:

I need to give you a little background on me so you can better understand where I am coming from. I have a condition known as Kallman's Syndrome. For those of you who are unfamiliar with it, I don't produce testosterone on my won. I was receiving injections every three weeks, but recently had switched to the gel. Anyways, due to financial problems, I was unable and still am unable to afford my meds, so I have gone without any testosterone replacement therapy for over 2 years. I was always told I could not have kids, but I was never tested to prove this. It was just something I belived about myself.

Imagine my surprise when my gf tells me that she is pregnant. I was shocked. I wasn't angry at the time, but informed her as best I could that I would want proof of paternity for my own personal reasons. I understood how she was hurt by this, but did everything in my power to assure her it had nothing to do with trust. Well, she agreed to an amniocentisis, and then renigged on that claiming she was afraid for the baby. I was upset, but didn't push. I might have brought it up a few times, but when I saw it got me nowhere and her hurt, I droped it. I spoke to her about a DNA test, and she agreed, but that still caused fights between us when I was 'pushing it' by bringing it up, and trying to disuss and explain to her why this was so important to me. The arguments just got so bad that at that point I decided and told her I wouldn't bring it up again until the baby was born.

I believed in my heart that the baby was mine, but due to my condition I still wanted proof. We tried to go on with the preparation for the baby. We bought clothes, toys, diapers, lotion, changing table all the things you need. We did this stuff together as best we could, when we weren't fighting about how 'I didn't trust her'. I did my best to assure her the reason wasn't about trust, but my words fell on deaf ears. We argued a lot and during all of those times she had ample time and oppurtunity to tell my anything she hadn't shared with me yet. The arguments got so bad that I started to ask her if there was a reason for me to be suspicious, she turned it into 'How dare I suggest such a thing'. I bit my tongue, and figured I would wait. My DNA would prove I was the father, and then maybe we could begin the healing.

Well, the baby came, I was right there, got it on video and all. Crying to my gf about how wonderful she was for giving me the one thing I thought I would never have. We had a great day in the hospital, I called my mom, my boss...I was happy....

Man there is just sooo much that has happened, and I just don't want to leave anything out....

The next day when I went to the hospital to visit, after a few hours I told her I had brought the DNA kit with me, and if she wouldn't mind letting me do it here and now, cuz it just hurt me too much to wait. Well, that caused a ruckuss, and all I'm thinking is what the hell is the big freakin deal? I mean at this point I am at my mind's end. Not knowing where to turn, but told that I am a horrible person for doubting her at all, and yet she still resists helping me prove this to myself. I mean I know she is hurt, but c'mon.

I finally get to do the DNA test, and I will admit I was shocked when she finally agreed to do it. I was thinking that maybe it was just that she was messed up on hormones from having a baby and all, and that I was finally gonna get my proof and be able to move on. I had been out of the house since the day after the baby's birth, but after she allowed me to get the DNA, I thought that it was time I came back. After all I took time off from work so that I could be with her and the baby, and I was spending that time in a lonely hotel room, crying every half hour wondering why is she doing this? I came home, I started to take my place as a new daddy, trying my best to put aside my doubts until the test came back.

Well, the test took what seemed like an eternity, and finally came back that it wasn't mine. I was devastated. All of that arguing? All of those times she made ME feel bad for doubting? Those times I was crying asking her if she had ever cheated on me.....all for nothing. My life meant nothing. All the things I took enjoyment in meant absolutely diddly. It hasn't even been a week since I found out. I am just so damn lost.

I could have left right then and there. Could have just went our seperate ways. That's what I told myself I would do before the results came in if they came back not my kid. I told myslef that there would be NOTHING that she could say that would make me want to stay. So why am I still here? She came clean with it as soon as I had my results. She has apologized profusely, we have cried and tried to work past our problem together. But now I feel as thought it is too much for me. I told her I wanted to give her a second chance, and part of me still wants to, but another part of me cannot get past the hurt. I told her I forgave her, and I believe I do, but I cannot forget. This is causing nothing but distance and more arguing for us, and I and her are at our wits end as far as what to do.

I know you guys can;t tell me what to do, but I was hoping that perhaps you have some advice and stuff for me. I don't know what else to do.

Thanks

demented, on the whole...
are you better off with her, or without her?
Is she worth it?
Is there some good stuff here that we don't know about?

I'm not for people just living together, but since you aren't married and don't have kids, there really isn't anything tying you to this woman who lied to you repeatedly.

On the other hand, if you want to save the relationship, there are many wonderful recommendations here at MB... please read all about them!!

J
in recovery 6+y and glad I stayed

FIRST: I am SO proud of you for insisting on doing the DNA. You do not know how MANY men avoid it & then years later, after bonding & the relationhsip ends or whatever......they find out the child is not theirs.

GOOD JOB! You just took the first step @ protecting yourself.
**************************
**************************
IF you want to try & build a relationship & future w/ this woman, it is possible.......BUT you have to do some soul searching as to why?

IT seems she has unneccesarily put you through quite a bit already.

The burden is on HER to repair your relationship IF it what you actually want.

IT is a lot of hard work & I can't say it would be worth it since you are not already married.

I hope you are able to heal, for yourself, in your own heart. IT might be worth it for you to look into some individual counseling w/ the Harley's

I'm sorry that you had to go through this.

sincerely,
kt

Hello. I just joined on the advice of my boyfriend who posted this message originally.

I'm not going to try and justify what I did. I would like to add a little info to the story he told. There is a lot of good left to salvage, I believe, and he has told me he thought so as well, at least until today. I've always been there for him, even when we argued and when he's left in the past. I truly love him and never meant for this to happen and certainly did not plan for it to happen. This was not an affair, rather a one time thing that happened suddenly and should never have happened at all. I am sincerely sorry for all that I did and caused and just want to work through it as he said we could.

Things were really bad between us when this took place and I never set out that day thinking I was going to do this. There was a lot of neglect going on in our relationship at the time and I was feeling unwanted, alone, rejected, and depressed. It was a stupid and meaningless thing I did. I can only repeat how sorry I am for what I did. The worst part was when I found out that I was pregnant. I told my boyfriend the same day. I was so scared and confused about the whole thing. I really didn't know what to do. I didn't want to lose him but didn't want to tell him what happened and that he may not be the father. I knew it would hurt him so much and I never meant for that to happen.

As my pregnancy progressed and time got closer, I became more and more depressed and confused about what I was doing. I wanted to tell him so badly, but was so afraid. As for the lying, yes I did lie about not cheating on him, and that he was definitely the father. And we argued numerous times about the DNA test, but I never said I wasn't going to have it done. Just that I wanted to wait until the baby was born. I can't explain why I lied other then I was scared, confused, depressed, and afraid of losing the only person I've ever been truly in love with.

I know this is a really hard thing to deal with and I know it's going to take time to heal. I really want to work through this and hope that he can believe me and eventually trust me again. I'm hoping that he meant what he said about forgiving me and maybe he can give me the 2nd chance he's not sure about. I hate that I screwed every thing up and wish I could wave a magic wand to fix things. But we all know that's not possible

The hardest thing of all is for him to care about the baby who reminds him of what I did. I love her too, and I can't just make her go away. I so wanted her to be his and prayed for that to be so. It's just something I have to live with. I just hope he can too.

Thanks for listening.

READ EVERYTHING On this site-not just the forums.

The thing IS that you are NOT married---so it's a bit sticky.....what motivation do you have to stay together?

Everything on this site IS very helpful but it IS written w/ a 'marriage relationship' in mind. kwim?

IT has been done.....relationships staying together after the birth of an OC---so it's NOT impossible.

Are you willing to do the serious & necessary leg-work to rebuild & earn the trust back in your relationship sjg?

Are you guys considered counseling w/ the Harleys? I hear that they are VERY worth it.

********
kt

Ok,, so you're BOTH posting here now,,That's a good thing!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You're both hurting, scared and seem to still care alot about one another.

Please don't just push this under the rug and try to resume where you left off. You're gonna have to work through it, find out what the problems are (you seem to have been separated a few times,,right? ) and if you are both willing to do the hard work to repair and rebuild this relationship. Read all parts of this site and the suggested books. Learn all about affairs and how to rebuiild. There is no short cut.

It CAN be done,,and your relationship can be better than you ever dreamed possible.

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm here for him 200%. It's just been hard seeing how much he hurts. I'm trying to reassure him and hope he believes me. I want only the best for both of us and this family. We may not be married, but we've been together for 6 years and worked things out in the past.

One of the conditions he told me was going to be necessary for him was to make sure the father wanted nothing to do with the baby. We got past that step together and I want to move forward some more. It's just so very hard for him to move forward yet. I feel stuck and not sure how to help him. He also changed his mind today and now I'm not sure what to do. I can only repeat that I love him, want this to work out, and will be there for him.

That's the biggest step of all. He has to want to move forward. So, I'm trying to be there for him while he decides. It's tearing us both up inside. He's very angry, and rightfully so. I just can't let go of him, I just love him so much.

I will look into the counseling, but I'm not sure if he wants to do that. We were in counseling before and it wasn't aggressive enough so it only helped a little.

I just thank God he's still here and pray for strength and guidence.

SJG,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He also changed his mind today and now I'm not sure what to do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's gonna do that,,alot. That's why they call this a "rollercoaster ride." The up n' down moods can change by the day, the hour, the minute. One minute the betrayed spouse can hardly stand to look at the FWS and the next minute can't figure out how they can possibly live without him/her.

The best advice I can give you for right now is to do exactly what you are doing,,,be there for him, if he has questions,,answer them HONESTLY!!! No "saving his feelings" or being afraid to hurt him. He's already hurt,,and anything other than total complete honesty will only multiply the devastation.

Check out the link at the top of this page for infomation about counseling with Steve Harley. I think it would be really beneficial for both of you.

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Nerlycrzy ]</small>

demented and SJG,

I have a few things to say and I am sure neither of you are going to like to hear them. It has been suggested that you both read the articles on this site and I strongly encourage you to do so. I also encourage you two to read TWO books, His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair both by Harley.

This sounds like a lot of work, but compared to what is going to happen it is simple.

First, from what has been said this relationship has been failing for a long time. Lots of fights, separations, what not. This is NOT good for either of you nor the two other children involved. So if you two cannot learn how to have a relationship then I strongly urge demented to move on. I am very very serious about this. Either learn how to have a good relationship or end this one.

ON top of that there is the matter of SJG's infidelity and lying about perhaps the most sacrosanct aspect of life, the creation of a child. SJG, you don't seem to realize that you have sent demented into a male's worst nightmare, his W, GF having another man's child. It is clear that you do not understand how deeply he is hurt by this and your lies and accusations.

You are seeing a war going on between this deep betrayal and his love for you. That is why he is on what we call the 'rollercoaster'. One minute he wants to work it out, the next he does not. This is NOT of his control. He had no say in ANY of the decisions that have led up to this. Do you understand how defenseless he feels? You controlled the decision to be with another man, you controlled whether to remain pregnant or not, you controlled the lies you told him, you controlled the accusations you hurled at him, and now expect him to raise yet ANOTHER man's baby.

Do you see why he might be a bit reluctant? None of those major decisions did he have even the smallest part in. When you say you can understand why he might not trust you, I don't think you do understand. Because you don't understand how completely you cut him out of any of this from the conception to the birth. Would you sign up for someone to have that control over your life? Only with a lot of deep thought and contemplation.

Demented might decide to stay, but make no mistake it will ONLY BE after a huge internal war between the part of him that wants to protect him from this and the part of him that loves you.

My recommendation is that you two work on learning how to have a good relationship before you work on staying together to raise this child. Because if you don't have a good relationship, there is little likelihood that the child would be raised by the two of you anyway.

Please think about this.

God Bless You Both,

JL

I am going to take it a little further than Just Learning did. And you probably wont like what I say, but here goes.
SJG<, you posted about what happened. You said it wasnt an Affair. You are wrong. Anytime you go outside your relationship, shether it is for 1 time or a thousand it is still an affair. Also did you have a "friendship" with this OM? Did you talk to him about your relationship, or did you just "pick him up somewhere?" If you had a friendship with this man, where you talked to him about your relationship and confided in him, then you were also involved in an emotional affair with him. You need to realize this and accept this.
With that said I look at what you posted about why you did it. Those are excuses. You had choices. Every relationship has problems. You choose to go outside your relationship to maybe find an answer or to make yourself feel better. I Believe that you need to go to Individual counceling to found out what inside of yourself let you do this.
I also believe the 2 of you should go to counceling together. Their is alot of work that you are going to have to do to repair this relationship. It will not be done over night. It takes at least 2 yrs if not longer to fully recover from this type of betrayal. Also I think if you 2 decide to stay together and make it work you should do it the right way, and get married. Give those children a real family.

Also anytime he asks you questions about the relationship with the OM no matter how much it might hurt you to answer them, You need to answer each one of them, honestly. He will probably ask the same questions over and over. This is normal, you just keep answering them over and over. You need to do whatever it takes to help him heal from this. You have taken his heart, ripped it out and then trampled all over it.
You can heal from this. It will take alot of work for both of you. Just dont try to rush thru it. You have to walk thru the fire to get to the other side.

This of course is just my opinion.

Lori

Demented and SJ, can I ask first why in 6 years have you not married? Just curious. Is it due to the problems and conflict in the relationship thus far? It seems to me that if you are willing and able to work on rebuilding this relationship into a good solid one, you should solidify your love for one another and for the 3 girls' by committing to MARRIAGE! A commitment to one another before God with his help, maybe?

Maybe a bad idea, who knows... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> but that is my first thought!

Demented, you said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, the baby came, I was right there, got it on video and all. Crying to my gf about how wonderful she was for giving me the one thing I thought I would never have. We had a great day in the hospital, I called my mom, my boss...I was happy....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From the outside point of view----- looking past these initial stages of hurt, confusion and frustration, I see a man who could most likely never have a child to raise and love as his own. I see IF you can commit to rebuilding and eventually marriage... a man who has a little tiny precious gift that came in a painful way to all... but yet a gift to you Demented! A baby that you could never have! The Lord works in mysterious ways!

I know, Demented, that you cannot begin to see it this way in this raw and fresh pain you are in... but as I said, as an outsider, I see a baby girl who needs a father, and a man who wanted a child! And she is here!

In addition, Your relationship was not very solid and a separation is what got the xow in my life and H together. My relatinship was crumbling and so was yours.

Do you think, SJ, that you have enough love, remorse and kindness towards Demented to pull you 2 through this? It is very hard for the betrayed to not have terrible feelings towards you and the relationship now-- but the love and extra hard work of the wayward parnter CAN and WILL conquer the pain--- IF you are up to this often hard task!

Problem is, that the PRE-cheating was only the final straw-- there was obviously problems and resentments built up PRIOR to this... SO the WS has to put her problem with the past IN THE PAST and just concentrate on the pain of this ordeal IN ADDITION to trying to work out, talk about and weed through all of the problems of the past. It takes a lot of work------ but I can say and many can too--that my marriage is WAY better than before the A. I dont THANK anyone for the pain and suffering I endured...... I just thank God for his mysterious way of reaching down and shaking the h*ll out of us because our marriage was going to die -- now we know how to communicate and how to treat one another right!! I will never forget but my life and our family is waaaay stronger now than ever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now aside from trying to pick out the good that can come from such an initially painful situation..

You two may have a fighting chance and I think the 3 girls deserve security and good examples.. and a strong duo to parent them. I pray for all of you ((((((( Demented Crew )))))). I know that 6 yeas together feels and is like marriage -- I don't undermind that.

Praying for you two and your 3 girls.

Demented... you will get through this honey. I think you are being very strong and are a class act albeit the pain you are in. SJ- dont let him get away!

Stick around here and you will be amazed at home much you can learn about your relationship and how to save it and LIVE and LOVE again!

Gio

Just an other thougth to keep in mind demented:

WE can't tell the future & know what will happen BUT in most states I Fyou assume paternal responsibilities, you can be held accountabel for that choice financially. SO if you & sjg break up but you have been acting as the 'fatehr figure' YOU can be held responsible for CS for hte entirity fo the OC minor years.

Something that you should consider. There is a lot to think about but since you are NOT married, you should be aware of your options & risks here.

It woudl be smart to speak to an attorney.

SJG: you MIGHT want to consider establishign paternity by who really can be held respnsible. I would not recommend this if you were already married but @ this point......everyone needs to be protected.

IF you decide to get married then demented can adopt baby as his own & take on all the responsibilities.

I think you shoudl BOTH speak to an attorney individually to protect yourselves & baby.

sincerely,
kt

SG and Demendted------

KT has given you absolutely good and sound advice with regard to the paternity/CS issues.... this is really a must for your protection Demented.

Demented and I had already talked about the paternity issue. We know who the biological father is, that's been established. The baby is protected by the birth certificate at this point due to filling it out as father unknown. In our state we have up to 1 year to make any changes to the original birth certificate before the permanent time limit runs out.

Once Demented and I decide how things are going to be, he can make the decision to be on the birth certificate if he wants. If and when we go further and marry, he can adopt her as well if he chooses, but it wouldn't be necessary if he was already on the birth certificate.

As far as financial responsibility, if we separate, I would never ask him for anything because it wouldn't be his responsibility. As for the biological father, as I stated earlier, Demented and I agreed that we would find out if he wanted anything to do with the baby. After confirming that he did not, we were able to move forward from there as a first step of sorts.

Things right now are calmed down and we are trying to move forward together. We are still here for each other. I'm not giving up this fight. I know he loves me and he knows I love him. It's just a long way to the promise land and I'll carry if if I have to.

Thank you for explaining a point I didn't think about, Learning. You're right about not giving him the choices I made on my own. All of the choices from here out about our entire relationship and family will be made together. We have a lot to sort through and our love bank needs filling on both sides. Demented is giving it his all and I trust and love him for that. His trust in me will take a great deal more time and effort, and I understand that 100%.

As for why in 6 years we haven't married, it has been an up and down relationship. We know that things need working on before we take that step. He has proposed 3 times in those 6 years and I accepted 3 times. It's something we just needed to put off until we are ready.

I did look into the counseling, but there is a budget issue we have to deal with, so counseling somewhere else is going to be explored. For both of us and individually.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this. It's really helping us and so has this site.

Folks,

Get those books and do some reading. YOu need to address how you interact before you can address the problems in this relationship. This is very very important.

SJG, I hope you can come to understand how deeply you affected him. It is so hard to explain to you, because you as a woman KNOW that any child you have is YOURS. Men do not know this and to be lied to about such a primal matter really really destroys trust and indicates a deep lack of respect on your part. This issue will take a long time for him to get around. He can, but it will take awhile.

Finally, why don't you two start out by working on being "friends". To do that stop and discuss what being a "friend" means to each of you. Please understand for guys a friend is something different that for girls. Acknowledge that and work on what each of you can do to make the other person feel comfortable. Love is actually easier than friendship, because love includes chemistry, friendship is based on choices, thoughts, and actions.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

SJG1014 -

It also concerns me that you called the ONS "meaningless." Clearly, that couldn't be further from the truth. And how could you have a ONS without protection, not BC, but condoms? Do you even know the father that well?

Your R together is one thing. Stay together or no. But please start making better choices for your kids, esp. at their ages. The 16 yr old is at an age where sexuality and exploring etc. become important. Do you really want them to follow your examples?

Here's a thought from a betrayed spouse. I could have forgiven my ex WW for the affair. But, in retrospect, I realize it was the constant lying about it that really made me decide to cooperate with the divorce and not try to convince her to return to the marriage. She lied to me repeatedly. And then accused me of not trusting her, knowing full well she did NOT deserve my trust. That was a worse betrayal than the affair.

If I was in your bf's shoes I would only work on getting back together with you if 1.) it would eventually result in marriage (after a LOT of work, not soon!), and 2.) I could adopt this child as mine. Otherwise, why should he come back to you when you hold all the cards and have refused to play fairly in the past.

You've lived together for 6 years, off and on. During that time, you say, the relationship has been too shaky for the commitment of marriage -- yet you've continued living together, acting as a family.

Now, there's been the worst kind of betrayal added to the mix, and there's another child involved. The relationship continues to go from bad to worse, but you still stay together, all the while wondering whether you will stay together.

It sounds as if one foot is in the door, and the other is outside, ready to bolt if necessary. Sounds like someone knows this relationship is a disaster but just can't summon the inner strength to end it. Or, someone knows this relationship is worth saving, and just can't summon the inner strength to make a commitment to it.

Which is it? I feel very sorry for all involved, particularly the three children.

Best wishes,
PM

Hey all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ,

Just wanted to thank everyone for their words of wisdom. I can see from the varied responses that this truly does affect everyone in different ways. This has and will be the hardest thing I have ever experienced. But I am ready. I am ready to try again at least. SJG has been EXTREMELY supportive, to a degree I have never seen. She has allowed me to make my decision without pressure or prejudice, only to hope, and start a new relationship built on trust and honesty. These things I have wanted from the beginning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We are reading the site regularly, a few times together, and are planning on getting those books. We are bonded again with a renewed spirit, and oneness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Again, I wanted to thank you for all of the opinions. Take care, and GOD bless! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Demented <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />