I haven't posted in a while, because my h. said it bothered him if I posted details about our life. <P>I am posting this only because I need input. My h. has told me numerous times that the affair was not at all my fault. He says I didn't fail him in any areas, except allowing him to 'be bad'. <P>He says the OW was a mean, sarcastic and selfish person, so he felt comfortable being as bad as he wanted with her. (Talking behind coworker's backs, sarcasm, sex in the office, in hotels at lunch, footsie during business meetings, sex on a business trip).<P>Now that we are in recovery and in counseling with a great therapist, I still wonder how I can meet this 'need' of his to be 'bad'. I think maybe it is just a need to be more 'real', since he now openly says he is no longer a Christian. <P>This is an area where my disrespectful judgments came in, as he had been a pillar of the church, a deacon, etc., and as his Midlife crisis kicked in, I wasn't very happy with his new lifestyle of drinking, swearing and talking about other women all the time.<P>Any insights?<P>lizzie\pearl<BR><P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Good to hear from you.<P>This is interesting. My H and I have always had our faith in commen...and I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to know your H does not even consider himself a Christian right now.<P>Can I ask if he lost his faith because he no longer believes? Or has he walked away because he does not want to live by the values his faith dictates?<P>The only slimmest glimmer here is that he doesn't want to be a hypocrite...which means that he at least doesn't want to be incongruent.<P>Could it be that he was held in such high esteem within the church and within your marriage, he felt he couldn't even be human? Does your church tend to be judgemental or unforgiving? <P>But this need to be bad, thing. In Christian terms, that could be viewed as a need to sin. Hey, we all share that. The difference is he removed his filter and has openly espoused a more earthly perspective.<P>Now what is "right" and "wrong" is sometimes a gray area. Was drinking and smoking forbidden in your church, or just was it just the abuse of drinking? What is your personal view?<P>Kind of like a parent that is so strict, a child rebels and then goes overboard, a church with rigid rules can have the same effect. A behavior that is questionable is treated heavy handedly and a person throws away his whole faith over it...like the baby with the bath water.<P>On the other hand, you H sounds like he wants you to be the enabler, which is not a good position for you to be in.<P>What values exactly does he want to keep and which ones does he want to throw out or modify.<P>You don't have to be a Christian to live values, like honesty, faithfulness, staying sober, respect, etc...<BR>Exactly how does he want to be bad?<P>Do you think he is trying to get between you and your own faith?<P>Certainly we all have our bounderies. But since we can not control what another does anyway, how can you let him be bad? Does he want you to be happy about his behavior, accept it, condone it? Or does he actually want you to give him permission? What would that be about?<P>This probably hasn't helped a bit...but this pretty complex.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Just thinking...you probably don't want to answer the questions I asked since you aren't really posting.<P>Just try to define for yourself what H needs to do to "be bad" and whether or not that crosses a boundry you have. If it does, think about if you can change the boundry without compromising your own values.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi POGP,<BR> This is an interesting question. Did your H experience any negative consequences of "being bad"? One thing Steve H has said to me in counseling is that I need to make it in my H's best interest to be here with me. Kind of made me look at things in a different way and has made me look at things to play up. I've thought about it and realize that family is extremely important to my H , more important than the high , inlove feelings he was getting. Maybe you don't need to let him be "bad" but realize you obviously are providing him with other more valuable things....does this make any sense? (Probably not!!!) Lu

FHL, <P>I think he needed to stop calling himself a Christian because he didn't like the restrictions that HIS OWN brand of Christianity imposed. Some of his ideas were not ones taught in our church, just things he saddled himself with. <P>For instance, he was a teetotaller for years, and he assumed that I wouldn't 'allow' liquor in the house because my parents didn't. Actually, I love to have a cocktail in the evening, and we now share a little snuggle time over a drink every night after the kids are in bed. <P>So in some ways, I can 'go along' with his need to be 'bad' when my own values don't actually conflict. The things I am concerned about are swearing, particularly in front of our boys, who now think that's what 'real men' do; and his view of women, which has been so colored by the OW's behavior. He told me that he doesn't want to fall in love again because she proved that you can't trust women!<P>lu - I did realize a couple of months ago that if he didn't want to do the right thing for the sake of being 'good', I needed to reinforce doing the right thing because it was in his best interests! Selfish people need selfish motivations! Being here with us is 1000% better than being anywhere else, and I make sure that is true every day!<P>thnaks for the replys!<BR>liz/pearl<P>p.s. you can reach me through the Women's Bible Study any time.

The need to be "bad". Hmmm. Didn't we have this conversation over in WBS and you ended up deleting it? I believe at that time you were being a bit adventurous in your clothing. Are surprises like that enough, or does he need more?

Lor- yup, we've had this chat before!<P>Wait till I tell you what came in the mail from Victoria's Secret today <P>It's a black satin full length nightgown that laces ALL THE WAY UP BOTH SIDES!<BR>It will "debut" on Feb. 14.<P>boy, am I thankful for Slim Fast!<P>I have discussed his spiritual quest back at WBS, but I really don't know if anyone but my h. can help me sort it out. I think I will ask him about it some more when we are in our counseling session. Sort of "How can I help you not have another affair?"<P>your in my prayers, Lor, take care sweetie!<P>Lizzie\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Lizzie,<BR>My very stbx was/is the same way. When we were trying to reconcile she would talk very provacatively to me and and when we fought she swore like a sailor.<P>She was a borne again Christian way back in H.S. and all thru college she lived the straight and narrow. She was a little on the wild side when I met her which was 2-3 yrs after college.<P>My minister counselor explained it to me that for years she lived with her brain and all she could find was unhappiness. Now she is living with her heart and is doing what ever feels good. I guess this is part of the mid-life crisis.<P>My other counselor also said that justification has a large part of her giving up on religion. She knows what she did was wrong but can't face the truth, so he has to deny the truth.<P>Eventually they/she has to face reality. At least your husband faced reality with you. Give him time he will probably regain his faith.<P>God Bless

RWD,<P>What your minister friend said makes a great deal of sense. My h. has said something very similar "I tried the straight and narrow and it made me miserable. Now I do what my gut tells me and I'm much happier"<P>OUR minister friend pointed out that following his gut almost cost him his family! "Didn't work so well for you there, now did it, my friend?"<P>thanks for all the replies, I've missed you guys...but I've got to go back to keeping away from here like I promised....<P>liz\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

POGP,<BR>Isn't it too bad that we Christians have created a system that to be a "good Christian", we have to be boring? My h has not gone against God, but has become sour toward the people of the church. H has wanted to smoke, drink occassionally, look at porn, and swear. Meanwhile I was the goody tooshue church lady. I came to the conclusion that I am not his keeper and if I get out of the way, God will convict him of what behavior is acceptable and what needs to be changed. Since I came to this conclusion, h no longer smokes(he only ever did this occassionally out of the house.) and h is very guilt ridden about the porn. I think h affair was part of the desire to be "bad" also. She is a woman that likes to live life on the edge and h was attracted to that. As the wife that wants to keep her man at home, I have become more willing and creative in the bedroom. In making myself more appealing however, I cannot go against anything that God says is forbidden. An occassional drink is not forbidden, just excess is. <P>Chances are that your h will come back to God. Right now he probably does not feel worthy of forgivness and Satan is pushing that button to the limit. Some day, your h will reach the bottom point and will know that God is the only way to get through. Right now, you need to be the light of Christ to your h. Forgive and love unconditioally. Don't come across as the "church lady" patrol out to convict your h of all of his sin. Get out of the way and let God

Thanks, Derby!<P>You are so on target about me just getting out of the HS's way...<P>I will try to let him work this through himself. I think he will eventually come back to a deeper, more liveable faith.<P>Thanks, <BR>lizzie\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>