Yesterday was our ninth anniversary(wedding that is) and I left a small card for him on the kitchen table when I left for work. I told him that I loved him as much today as I did nine years ago. I also asked him to go to dinner with me which we had actually talked about doing.<P>Well when I got home from work he wasn't here no note no call nothing. He never even came home until today at noon. I had to LB and ask where he was and didn't our anniversary mean anything to him. He said he saw the card and planned on going out to dinner with me BUT always but he got drinking and said that when he drinks he doesn't care about anything or anyone. I know he cares about himself and the OW. She wasn't working last night so I would bet dollars to donuts he spent the night with her instead. What a way to remember my anniversary from now on.<P>I did tell him that I have made some decisions that I will probably move to my parents and he will be responsible for certain bills and I will pay the others. I think that floored him. I said why should I stay here and be treated like dirt. Maybe I went too far but it felt right at the time. I said I had to talk to my parents and tie up a few loose ends and would go from there this weekend. Another stipulation will be that the OW is not allowed at the house and I will be free to check whenever I want.<P>I really didn't want to leave but emotionally I can take no more nights alone. At least if I am not living here I won't know if he is home or not. <P>Then tonight he asked me for money for a haircut. Imagine that he is out of unemployment till next week but he can find money to go out and drink but wants me to give him money for a haircut. I gave him his last $20 and told him that after he spent $10 for the cut he could go out and drink the other ten.<P>Why is it he will admit that drinking is the problem but doesn't seem to sink to rock bottom to do something about it. Maybe me leaving will make him think.

BC,<BR>I KNOW exactly what you're going through. Being married to an alcoholic is so depressing, so stressful, and so painful all the time. Was there ever a time your H didn't drink? Mine quit for almost 5 years, and during that time he was usually considerate, affectionate, nice and loving. All that came to a screeching halt when he started drinking again 8 years ago. He has put me through he!!. <P>When my H stopped drinking way back when, it was because he hit rock bottom. He was also on drugs. He got fired from his job, went on a two day binge, beat me up, then disappeared. I had come to the conclusion that I was going to be a widow, because he was doing so much drugs and drinking non-stop, so I forced myself to stop loving him and stop caring. I filed for divorce. I didn't speak to him or try to make any contact whatsoever for over 2 months. Our divorce was only a few weeks from finalization, I felt it was completely over. I went on with my life. Out of the blue, he called me and started begging to come home. This went on for two weeks, with me refusing his request to come home, and him crying and begging every morning and every night. He was clear across the country from me. I finally told him when he was ready to stop drinking for himself, because HE wanted to, I would talk to him about coming home. A week later he'd hit his bottom. He spent a weekend in a bar, sleeping in his car, started drinking again as soon as they opened, got into a barroom fight and was beat up, still didn't go back to where he was living to change or clean up the blood, and started drinking the next day as soon as the bar opened. By the following night, he'd woke up to what he was doing to his life. For a long time after he came home, I didn't feel any love for him because he had killed it. The years he was sober were great, the happiest of my life. I fell back in love with him. When he started drinking again, and told me he could "handle it this time", I KNEW in the bottom of my heart he couldn't and our marriage was doomed. <P>My H is now drinking very heavily, though he has scaled back some since our most recent separation and reconciliation. He's nowhere near hitting bottom again this time, but this time I have backup in helping me deal with it - Our Lord Jesus Christ. He will deal with my husband's drinking. I have to learn to stay out of His way. <P>Don't despair. We are here to help you cope. These wonderful people here on MB have been my lifesaver during the past 6 months. I so understand how rejected and neglected it makes you feel when you're left alone while your H is out drinking it up on your anniversary, your birthday, Christmas Eve, etc. etc. etc. Alcohol does make them into idiots who care nothing about their family, just their next binge. I don't want to make you feel worse, but I do want you to know that I TRULY UNDERSTAND what you're going through and want you to know you're not alone. Please take care, I will pray for you.

Alcoholic's Wife<P>Thanks so much for the reply. It is good to know that people out there have gone or are going through the same thing I am and that I am not alone. To make things even worse after he came home yesterday he was only there for about four hours to sleep,eat, shower and leave again. I haven't seen him yet this morning. <P>I know everyone says that they have to hit rock bottom before they want to quit drinking. I just don't know how long I can wait for it to happen. When he goes on an all night binge he always says he has to stop be doesn't.<P>Yes there was a time about 4 years ago that he stopped for about a year. He was a different person. But then he started again and it has become progressively heavier. He has some friends that are in there 20's and he is 36 and he thinks he can drink and party like he was 20 again. He has aged so much in the past year it is very scary. Also the OW is a drinker too and she has no problem sitting in the bar all night with him drinking etc. I can't do that because I don't want to and that makes him mad.<P>I would like him to move out but he refuses. That leaves me to be here nights alone while he is out wondering if he is ok and when he will be coming home. In fact everytime he walks out the door I'm not sure if he will be home that night. This is why for my sake I am thinking about going to my parents for awhile. Maybe if I am not around he will realize just what I do for him and mean to him. Then again maybe not. But I might realize that he doesn't mean that much to me anymore.

BC:<P>I, too, know also how you feel. Unfortuantely. I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I discovered my H's affair only two weeks ago. I told him I was leaving, and he promised to go to therapy and quit drinking. He said he had an "awakening". We had our second therapy session last night. Tomorrow he will be sober for two weeks. <P>I am so afraid that what has happened to you and to Alcoholic's Wife, will happen to me - regarding the proverbial "falling off the wagon". I have gotten a lot out of this site. So much in fact that just within these past two weeks, I feel like I have a whole new H. <P>The OW is a freak (she called me last Thursday "to apologize" and then had her friend call me on Friday to give me another number where I can reach her in case I ever wanted "to talk". The nerve of some people. I think she was trying to see if she could push me. She can't.). She's gone a bit pyscho about the whole thing, and he's done everything possible to make sure there is no contact. He's been writing in a journal about his feelings and how he didn't like the person he had become, and realizes it was from the alcohol.<P>He's in construction, so if you're familiar with that industry, drinking on the job is very prevelant. They'd start drinking at 10AM and then hit the bar for lunch and then again after work. He'd come home and pass out on the couch. It's like I lived alone.<P>I'm afraid of that day, where he will think "he can handle it". <P>I'm pretty new here, and usually a lurker. I feel that I'm not one that can give advice yet. <P>Other than, just hang in there, and like Alocholic's Wife said, there are people out there just like us. You're in the right place for support as I believe that to be the same for me. <P>As hurtful as it is, thank you for sharing your story with us. I was beginning to wonder if anyone on these boards were dealing with an OP AND Alcohol abuse.<P>Keep updating. I'd like to see how you are progressing.<P>You are in my thoughts. Thank you again for posting. I personally, really appreciate it.<P><p>[This message has been edited by purplemag (edited February 04, 2000).]

bc,<P>I think you are doing the right thing. You can't make him quit. It is terribly painful to watch someone you love destroy themself and I know you want to save him. When he comes to his senses enough to get the help he needs he will need you to be strong and understanding. You can't do that if you let yourself be torn apart by what he is doing. Do what you need to do for youself. That is not selfish or unloving. I think it is best thing to do for both of you, otherwise you are an enabler. Have checked to see if there is an al-anon group in your area. I know someone here talked about it but said they were from a small town and didn't want to go. I understand that, but I'm worried about you. You have been through enough. Tough love is hard but he needs it.

bc...<P>I replied to Alcoholic's Wife, a bit similar to your situation. My advice is the same. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to cut & paste here.<P>Maybe you can check out my responses to AW in the Women's Bible Study Forum. I replied twice to her to her most recent post.

BC, whatever you do, don't compromise your integrity in any way just because he wants a drinking partner. I used to get that line too - "have a few drinks and loosen up, that's whats wrong with you". I have no desire to drink after watching what alcohol has done to him. If he could only see himself drunk. My husband's OW was also a bar fly that liked to get drunk with him. My husband tired of her very easily. He stays with me because I have morals and live my life with integrity, something he knows he could never expect from the OW. He realized what she really was, and knew deep down that she was NOT the kind of woman you build a life with. His response to me when I asked him why he wanted to come home was that he couldn't forget the life we had built together by ourselves, and wanted to be proud again of the home we have together. He would never have that with her. <P>Sounds like your H maybe subconsciously fearing midlife. Mine was. He was 34 when he started drinking again, and 39 when he started really going down the tubes. He's 42 now, and last year and the year before was doing the same thing your H is - hanging around with party boys in their 20's that have no family responsibilities. He used to spend an enormous amount of time in front of the mirror, trying to pluck out all his gray hairs. By the way, my husband also is in the construction industry, and what purplemag says is true - they do hang out and drink at the jobsite or head to the bar after work ALL the time. What I cannot understand is how their employers can let this go on, since they will be liable if one of their drunk employees has an accident in their company truck on the way home and kills or hurts someone. I would think their insurance carriers would be checking up on things like this. <P>Stay in your house, don't let him have it. If you leave, and worse comes to worse and you end up in divorce court, you will have next to no chance to move back into or keep your house. Even if he doesn't leave, stay anyway, go to Al-Anon. Pray and pray and pray. God will be with you, He will take care of you. You're in my prayers BC. God bless you.

bc,<BR>Another hand goes up in the "my h is an alcoholic" club.<BR>My H moved out 6 weeks ago to live with the OW, who happens to be a barfly. I have been hurting like I never have before. But everyday I try to think of one positive thing out of all of this. I don't have to sit and worry if he's gonna make it home or not. I don't have to deal with the anger when he comes home. I don't have to deal with him feeling crappy the next day. And the list goes on and on. That is basically how I am getting thru this.<P>I do want him to come home and I believe in time he will. I just need to wait a while longer. He's only been with her a few months and the newness is still there. Plus she is the type to move on very quickly.(She's already been seen with other men, but H won't believe it)<BR>So, for now I wait.<P>You are doing a great job. I know it's hard. hang in there as long as you can. Only you know when you've had enough.<P>Prayers,<BR>Mitzi

Thanks for your replies. It is again reassuring to know there are others out there with the same problems that can understand what I am going through. My H is also in the construction business and is usually layed off in the winter months. He also would go out after work all the time with the guys and have a "few beers". (A few too many) I also don't understand how they do it. He wouldn't drink at lunch time but after work every day. I wouldn't be able to function at work if I had a few drinks (which I wouldn't because I don't drink). He did admit that he ran into the OW the night of our anniversary. How coincidental that they just happen to run into each other. What a joke. <P>I spoke with my mother today and she thinks I should stay here in the house too. I told her that he is driving me nuts if I am not already nuts. I feel so awful when he doesn't come home at night thinking every minute of him with the OW. I think the bar fly definately fits this OW too. He tells me he doesn't want her because she has too much baggage (a H and two kids). If thats the case why does he continue to see her. Just as a companion while he is drinking. She has no morals, scrupels, or self esteem. If she did she would have never been willing to try and get involved with a MM. <P>I think I am leaning towards giving him to options. I know it isn't a good idea to give ultimatums but my physical and mental well being are at stake here not to mention my job. If I don't do something to change the ways things are, I am afraid of what might happen. I want to sit him down tomorrow morning, lock all the doors, turn the phones off and tell him he has two options.<P>1. He can break off all contact with the OW with me either hearing it in person or over the phone, be at home every night, and get help for his drinking problem. <P>OR<P>2. He can have a divorce. And this includes me getting the house and the OW getting him and all his problems. <P>My H is the kind of person that the only thing that might put a bind in his life is lack of money which means lack of freedom. He could always count on me to make sure the bills were paid, the checkbook balanced etc and money in his hand when he asked for it. This often meant robbing Peter to pay Paul, which I became very good at. The problem is that while he got to do everything he wanted and buy the things he thought he needed, I went without. So if I am not there to bank roll him he might find it isn't easy to come up with $100+ every week at least for his beer habit. And I know for a fact the OW doesn't make enough money to keep him in the style he is accustomed to so to speak.

My H the other day, just realized he's saving $100+ a week by not drinking. That shocked me. I couldn't believe he was spending so much just on beer. It's also scary. Like Alcoholic's Wife said, you wonder about the employers. However, in my case, it is the employers that bring the beer by - here - have a beer, you guys are doing a great job. <P>As for the barfly...the OW was a barfly too, whether or not SHE wanted to admit to it. With the whole morals thing... she has a H and 4 kids! I just can't imagine.<P>I would do as others are saying too, please keep that house. Don't move out. I was one to always handle the finances too. The checkbook, the bills, everything. In the past couple of weeks, it's become 50/50. I know you're not at that level yet of recovery or working things through.<P>I truly hope things work out for you. In the best interest of you! If that includes your H, even better. <P>I, myself, have never been to an Al-Anon meeting. I chickened out. So I can't give advice as to whether you should go, but seeing as it's helped so many others in these situations, I would go. It doesn't hurt to have support. The more the better.<P>I think too, what makes it hard in these situations, is that when you read all the information, and believe me it's been SO helpful for me just as a person and for us as a couple, it's always talking about the betrayed not meeting certain emotional needs. I think the only emotional need we never met was to be their drinking partner. And, being a non-drinker, that's so hard to take in as being the cause of an affair or H being miserable. They have everything else. Everything. <P>It's scary to see what alcohol can do. It really is. And everyday, I wonder if he'll come home with alcohol on his breath. It's a hard road to travel.<P>But, as most everyone here on this site knows, this is the best place to be for support other than a counselors. I have received so many answers to so many questions. It doesn't make it any easier, but it helps me to understand WHY. <P>Again, I'm rambling, I am sorry. If we stick together, we'll make it through this whatever the outcome. <P>You are in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there, seems such a lame thing to say, but it's all we can do, right?

Hi from NZ ladies - I read your posts with much understanding and empathy.
Around 4 years ago I met a man who had been through a rehab program and who was sober and happy, handsome & positive - in a nutshell he was "never going back there". The first year that we were together was a wonderfully happy time - my boys (then 7 & 9 ys) and I fell head over heels in love with him. When we had been together around 9 months I began to realise that he was carrying around some heavy emotional baggage (he was badly abused as a child). I truly believe that at the time we met he was still in a euphoric state that stopping drinking meant to him, his life was perfect, with a perfect woman (he saw me as!) and wonderful children who he could love as his own. But as the alcoholic fog lifted (which can take months) his emotional problems (that had for so long been numbed with alcohol) began to surface and he began to be very difficult to live with. He was moody and depressed alternating with happiness when an 'issue' was put to rest (and man, he had a lot of issues).We did a lot of work with a counselling book around overcoming bad feelings from childhood, and we spent hours talking through his sessions with his counsellor (which I never minded, his anger & upset was never directed towards me - and I understood that you need to work out baggage rather than just put it down - and of course, I was very much in love, I wanted him to have peace).<p>At around the 18mths mark of our relationship, my youngest son (who has cerebral palsy) had to have an orthopaedic operation to help his walking. Mike (my partner) was supportive in the lead up to this happening and was happy to look after my older son as I would need to stay in hospital with Darryn (youngest son) for around 5 days and then be transferred to a convalescent hospital. While I was in the main hospital, Mike came to visit Darryn the day after his op, he told me that he had had a couple of glasses of cider in the afternoon. He said it was hot, said that he'd dealt with so many of his issues that drinking wasn't a 'band-aid' anymore, that he wouldn't need to drink as he had, that he and Mitchell (eldest son) were just having a ball, everything was OK at home - he seemed just great - and looking back I think that was the main concern to me at the time (other than being in hospital with a child who is in a lot of pain of course) that everying at the 'home end' was OK in spite of the upheaval I found myself in - it was one less worry I guess.<p>How wrong I was! It was a massive worry!! Mikes drinking escalated over the next year until he was drinking every day and quite heavily at the weekend. All of a sudden, the anger that never used to be directed at me, seemed to be aimed at me completely. His hatred of women (and because I took it all personally, his hatred/love of ME) became very apparent. He continued going to counselling, but would never tell her just how much he was drinking/smoking pot. He wasn't always angry, when he was sober he was fine, but as soon as he drank moderately you could see him change, and when he drank heavily it was like having an armed landmine in the house. <p>Everything culminated one night in a he!!ish argument in which he screamed at me, broke the house up, tore the phone from the wall, the curtains from the windows and offered to throw me off the verandah. You know, love like that you can do without! (because he still professed to love me, would die if he should lose me, blah, blah).<p>I left for the night with a frightened child and I was an emotional mess. He never laid a hand on me but the strength of his rage had terrified us. It was a terrible thing to have put a child through, but I never saw it coming.<p>The next day, I left my boys with a close friend and came home to talk to Mike, as I knew he would be sober in the morning, and therefore reasonable and unlikely to lose his temper.<p>I came home to a man who was just devastated by what he had done (as much of it as he could remember). He resolved to me there and then to stop drinking - and I believed him. I wanted to believe him because we had a wonderful relationship that I reasoned we could have again without alcohol.<p>Alcoholics Wife, I'm sure you know what I will say next, but I didn't know then what I know now!<p>The next almost year was spent with Mike in a 'dry drunk' of anger, resentment and depression, during which he relapsed I think about 4 times (a weekend here and there). Every time he drank I was upset and disappointed and my life seemed to be really out of control - it was like being on a crazy rollercoaster that never stopped. I knew it was hard on the boys as well, but they SO wanted their Mike back that they hoped as I hoped.<p>The last time he drank, after trying to 'moderate' his drinking for a time (which seemed impossible for him to achieve) he sold booze to some kids after a school function, drove my car drunk, and came home at 4 in the morning with some teenager who had been driving MY car around for hours around the city! and then, when I let him know it was all totally unacceptable, he tried to convince me that I was mad and finished up by telling me that I was just too f----- straight ..... That was the day he moved out of my house.<p>His life then went from bad to worse, he lost his license DUI, got beaten up and ended up living in a seedy house in a bad area of town. I still remained friends with him, he still came over to see me and the boys and I helped him with things for his house, and the odd bit of food here and there. I would not give him money because he would have spent it on alcohol. I don't know if I still loved him then, but we had such a wonderful friendship that even though all of this had happend, I still could not write him off totally. I knew that he was a wonderful man, but that alcohol had really got him by the thoat. He was powerless over it, and he was a nasty person when he'd been drinking - yet a lovely guy when sober. I resolved to just be friends and let it go - he would ask me to rescue him often because he had no money for power or whatever because he'd drunk it and I would say "No, I can't help you".<p>After about 4 months, he booked himself into a rehab program and for six months now he has not had a drink.<p>He comes over now for weekends and we are back to being lovers, but he still lives in his house and me and the boys live in mine. He is attending counselling once a week, and he seems to have grown up a lot. He says that when he is at our house he doesn't think about alcohol, but that he still does when he's alone without us around him. I feel that he still has a way to go (the fog is still lifting) but I hope that eventually I will feel that he is strong and will be able to step back into a new relationship with him.<p>It has been one of the hardest things I have ever had to face in my life, along with a child with a disability. My family is a close one, and Mum and my sisters were wanting me to walk away but in my heart I knew that all I wanted was the man I started with back! I think the main thing I learned was that I had to let it go, I had to be prepared to say Goodbye to him if I could not have what I wanted - what I deserve, which is a partner who will treat me with respect as I do him.<p>So, I guess I am still in that state. I still dont know if he can kick the booze totally for himself as a life long decision - but I have time, I can wait, and I can watch and who knows, hopefully he can come through for us. <p>Anyways, that's my story (hope you enjoyed the non fiction novel!). I have'nt been to al anon as it's difficult when working full time with children, but I have a great friend in my counsellor, who saved me by the skin of my teeth from becoming terribly co-dependant so I guess she's my face to face meeting!<p>I wish you joy & peace in your lives
Jules x x x

I too, am married to an alcoholic, funny a lot of us out here... it seems to drive things from bad to worse... and funny they have fidelity problems... and they run to other party girls... of that sort.. barflys if we won't live that kind of life..
So anyway, I am on my way out to breakfast with my 2 boys, and I will ck oin later... go to alanon friends, hugs, HONEY

I'm sorry, I had to laugh at myself when I realised I had bumped up and replied to someone's post from TWO years ago! Oops - oh well, perhaps someone out there is meant to read this stuff this week? I guess I have been fortunate in that Mike didn't seem to look for other women when he was drinking - he'd rather make love to the bottle! Mind you, that's probably a symptom of the anti-woman thing he had then - you'd hardly go looking for another one I guess.

HI, ME TOO! I just cked back in... glad you brought the subject up! HA HA! MY H is out drinking on superbowl sunday, this yr... he gets to go to a bar, as we are seperated... !! Funny he invited me over yesterday, me and the kids... to watch the game at his house.. but he has since forgot... that bottle sure is great compnay! Hugs, to you, HONEY

Honey, you said in your reply (to that poor woman who could have done with it 2 years ago - still chuckling about that) to go to al-anon. I work full time, live in the country and have 2 boys to get home to. For that reason I don't take a lunch hour from work as I prefer to get home earlier - I just don't see how I could get to a meeting. As I said, I do have a counsellor who I can see whenever I want, and ring whenever I want and she's great regarding the "Who's problem is this Jules" - she made me see through the co-dependent thing. Now I feel that I am pretty safe and not co-dependent any more, I can wait and if necessary I can walk away. What do you think - do I NEED al-anon or have I more or less got to where they'd take me? I really feel like I could just do with someone who knows what I mean to have the odd rave to - guess you're it today! If you reply perhaps we should put it on a new thread to save me/us further embarassment - hee hee!
Wishing you joy and peace, Jules