I haven’t been on the forum much for a while. I feel a little guilty for not giving back more of what I have received and now returning when I’m again in trouble. <P>Until two weeks ago, I was trying hard on Plan A. It seemed to be (slowly) paying off. My W started telling me 6 months ago that she would not stay and continue lying about the affair being over. Two weeks ago tomorrow I stumbled across some evidence that it is still going on and I told her I wanted her to leave. She left that day, with our two girls (which hurt), and moved in with her parents till she could get an apartment (which she will have soon). <P>The day after she left, she told some of our friends - very few had known anything. During the last 12 months, she has always told me she loved me and really wanted to end the affair and work things out. But she has also felt that being apart was something she might really need (denying it was to liven the affair). Our friends and Church pastor have basically told her to stop doing things to give me hope for our marriage. Things like even a small hug or kiss, signing emails with Love, etc. This is hard for her because she doesn’t want to see me in pain and I certainly am. Our friends feel they are looking out for MY interests. They tell her she is causing me more pain by giving me hope if it is only false hope. She knows that her affection helps me to cope with all this but I must agree that I don’t have much interest in being drug around forever. It upsets me a little that our friends and pastor would advise her against to do something that made me feel good. I suppose I really just don’t want to face where we are in this and the seriousness of it all. She is following their guidance and it hurts. She has told me not to count her out and she truly does have love for me but just needs time alone for now. <P>My question is this. Should I be in a hard line Plan B? <P>The reason I ask is because I don’t like being here and: 1. I believe she was still willing to work mildly on our marriage when I told her she had to leave and 2. Her having the girls, is still a pretty large obstacle to her pursuing the affair.<P>Your advise is truly appreciated. Ron <BR>

Ron,<P>I'm 10 days away from plan-b. I personaly don't see any other choice for you.<P>Do write a letter...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Sailor,<P>Since I seem to have seen you post first, I I will respond. Plan B is for you, not to punish W. It is for you to protect you love for your W. If you feel that staying in Plan A, is still alright, then I say do it. <P>I am sure that SHA or K can give much better advice than I, but if you feel that Plan A gives you the best chance; just do it. When you see your W and children, be as nice as possible. I know with children it would be hard to have a hard Plan B, because you would be punishing them as well.<P>You know these people mean well, but let your W know how you feel about this as well. In Plan A you can communicate what you feel, it just has to be done without LB.<P>I have been following your story for a long time now and I am really sorry to see that it has come to this.<P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

Ron,<P>I second what <B>Just Learning</B> recommended... as protection for you and your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>.<P>I hope your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> was good... and as Bill said... get a letter written...<BR>check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A> for other info.<P>Please don't lose time with your girls... It is hard to do a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> with children, but it can nad has been done. I too... in time... will be there with you(most likely after my divorce).<P>Jim

Hi Ron, <P>It's so difficult to know what the right thing to do is. So often, we end up doing something and then try making ti the right thing. So, I don't want you to second guess what you did. You did what you felt was right and it's good to go with your gut instinct. <P>Your pastor and wife's friends are wrong. Your wife showing you affection, no matter how small, means she still loves you. Gosh, just having the anger and fighting stop is a significant thing. Learning to talk to one another again are huge steps in the right direction. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>During the last 12 months, she has always told me she loved me and really wanted to end the affair and work things out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>She does love you. She's just messed up right now, Ron. As with you and me, it doesn't get better right away. Letting go is so hard. <P>Ron, I want you to think about the word 'justification'. It took a long time for this to sink in for me. Every action going on in your wife's life has to be justified. She has to degrade her marriage to justify the affair. She has to compromise her beliefs, to justify the affair. She knows she has hurt so many people by what she has done, so she is doing what she can to keep up what image she has left. <P>She knows her kids will never look at her the same. She knows she has hurt you tremendously and probably doesn't think you deserve her. It goes on and on.<P>IMHO, I don't think you should go to a hard nose Plan B. I think you have taken some steps that will help her understand the complete impact that her affair is having. But, keep the door open for now. It is much easier to heal a relationship together, than a part. So, keep the door open. Keep working Plan A as best you can. <P>Hope this helps Ron.<P>Best wishes, <P>SHA

Thankyou all for your support. <P>WilliamJ<BR>When you say you are 10 days away from plan b, how do you figure that? Have you given some ultimatum or something? What happens in 10 days (now 4 or 5)?? I had thought a lot about someday going into plan b but I have to admit that I somewhat “snapped” into telling her to leave. I regret it and I don’t regret it. It is very hard and lonely. But it just had to stop. <P>Just Learning<BR>Thankyou for supporting my actions and your advise. I do feel crappy and know I could have prevented my feeling this way right now. But not forever. I know you are relating the Harley Plans and I am trying to follow them fairly well. You are right about our girls. My W is very influenced by the relationship I have with them. My relationship with them has been strained for several years and I am trying real hard to improve it. <P>NSR<BR>Thanks. My W purchased the SAA book after talking once to Steve Harley and now we have mysteriously misplaced it. I read the book several months ago and read the Plan A/B letter from Harley on this site but I’m at a loss now as to what this letter should say. Can you please give me a couple hints? <P>Where will you be (that I am) after your divorce. I’m so sorry to hear things are going poorly for you. Is it eminent? <P>BTW, your posts on Plan A and B are well written - thanks. I believe you gave some good links that I need to look at (maybe some sample letters). <P>SHA<BR>Gee. You tell me what I want to hear. Please give my your thoughts on this. Harley says Plan B is when the betrayer doesn’t get his/her needs met by the betrayed. I am sure there are some that won’t be. I also believe for me to have met some and the OM to have met some for the last year is what has caused it to go on. Harley is pretty clear on cutting it all off.<P>My W is sort of the head of the Youth Group at our Church. They are planning on having a retreat in about a month. I found out last night that my W is going to be asked not to participate given the circumstances. I know this is going to devastate her. I would like so much to be there for her. But I don’t feel I can. I saw my counselor this morning and she said my W needs to “hit bottom”. Boy, I don’t know. How can you stand by and watch someone you love “hit bottom”? I guess you just pray a lot that it is what is really needed. <P>I’ll certainly consider your advice since it more closely parallels my instincts. Thanks again SHA.<P>Ron<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sailor (edited February 07, 2000).]

Ron, <P>I'm not a fan of Plan B. I would rarely advise someone to do it for two reasons:<BR>1)I've never done it, so I certainly don't feel justified in telling someone else to go through with it. <BR>2)I think it is harder to rebuild apart than together. <P>Now, with that said, I did put contrainsts on hanging in there with my wife through all the junk. I told her I could not tolerate any more physical stuff between her and OM. I said if I ever found out that she and him were physical in any way, that would be it for me. I would leave and move on. I can not and will not share my wife physically with another man. The past seven months since that confrontation, I have been fighting the emotional battle. The emotional bond is perhaps the toughtest to break and hurts just as much. So, if she was honest enough to keep herself from being physical, I would hang in there the best I could. <P>I know you said you found evidence that your wife was still involved with the OM. To what extent is that involvement? If it's physical, then I don't question you at all. Hard core plan B would be the way to go. If it's not physical, then I would stick to Plan A. She may just be having a hard time letting go. <P>I'm finding that there is incredible pain in letting go. Having to deal with everyone that has been hurt, she may feel like you deserve better, she may think you could never accept her again or you would be unable to deal with what has happened. She may fear you would resent her for this later. She may fear you would have your own affair to get back at her. The worst part is how she compromised her morals to do what she did. Her self esteem is at an all time low (ours is too by the way). There are so many issues, so much hurt. <P>Nobody doubts that the betrayer needs to hit bottom. The difference is whether you'll be there to pick her up or not. That's a choice that she makes. <P>Ron, you can only do your best. I found that I had to give everything to save my marriage because I couldn't live with any regrets. You die a little each day when this is going on. Fewer and fewer tears fall. I think you get to the point when you know it's time to let go. Only you will know that time. <P>Remember, you have history together. Time does heal. That still has to be beaten into my head. You simply want your wife to know, that this decision she is forcing is her's. You want her to know that you did everything you could to save the marriage.<P>Plan A is also for you Ron. You learn about you. You learn what you're capable of. You learn how much of a giver you are. You dig down and give when you think you think. God will carry you when your too weak on your own. So, do it for you. My self esteem and self worth climbs each day. I see myself as a good and loving man. I have a lot to offer any relationship and so do you. <P>I want to travel through life with my wife. But, if she really isn't interested in taking that journey with me, then I have to let her go. I want her to be happy. If that means letting her go, then I have to. <P>Ron, these are the tough times in marriage. I try to see this as a few years of tough times are expected in any long term marriage. If it doesn't work out, then I'll walk away a better man through this. <P>Hang in there Ron. <P>Best Wishes, <P>SHA <P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.

NSR - Jim<BR>Hi again. Hey, I just read your profile. Wow! I have to give you lots of credit for still having hope. You don't say that your W is doing anything to give you hope. Is she? Sounds like she and OM have been living together for a while. Harley says this should die in 3 to 6 months. What is he predicting? I'll sure pray for you that your Plan A measures are having an effect. Sorry I'm out of tough with some of you - looks like I am going to have more time to devote now though.<P>SHA<BR>Hi guy. Thanks so much. Maybe I hadn't told you the depressing news I got last Fall that things had been physical - twice. Once right after the affair began last Jan or Feb, and then again in August. And I'm pretty sure there have been times since then but not that she has admitted to. She had definitely gotten better at covering her tracks.<P>What evidence did I find? That she had been calling him from our cell phone and coding the phone to cover up the calls (found the coding). She claimed she was just calling his voice mail to listen to his voice. She pleaded with me that she was not lying as much as she had been last Summer. Pretty sad how lying is so relative. It was based on that that I told her to leave. I wasn't sure at the time I was doing the right thing but I have found out since that there was more going on than what she was saying then. Just lies on top of lies.<P>I do have to agree with you that much of Plan A has been for me. This is my second marriage and my first ended with my discovering my W had an affair. I filed for divorce instantly. It was a different relationship than I have with my current wife but we do have to much to do that. I can say I have tried and I have given. I get a lot of praise from our friends who are nearly sure they couldn't do what I have. Somehow, that is not very comforting though. There is only one thing that would make me feel all my patience and hard work was worthwhile. I just hope and pray I get it. <P>Hey, I checked out the thread you had going and noticed you have taken a leave of absense. Please give us an update on what kinds of thing you and W are doing that keeps you going. Things must be getting better after the last round. Since school is out, what is keeping it going? Or is it? How are the kids fairing?<P>Ron

Hey Ron, <P>I think you did the right thing. However, I think you should still be in Plan A. I cetainly understand the frustration in watching your wife pine away for another man. It hurts. Hopefully, this time will be good for the two of you to reflect on the direction and work ahead. <P>Ron, it's obvious that you love your wife and you want things to work. It's just tough to know the right things to say and do to help them through there inner turmoil. As long as there's hope, I would hold on to it as tight as you can. Time, time, time. You'll come to hate that word. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Please give us an update on what kinds of thing you and W are doing that keeps you going.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What keeps me going? Well, December was a pretty tough month. I thought she was ready to leave. But you know what? I was ready for it. If she wanted to go that badly, I wasn't going to stop her. I have done all I can to preserve the marriage. I decided that I can't manipulate the out come. I used to try. But, in reality, the betrayer has to be the one to let go on their own. So, I gave it over God and let Him do His will in her life. I continued to do all I could while she was in our home. <P>There are little things she does that show me she loves me. I soak up each one. She now asks me about my day (never did that before). We talk a lot, every day. I make time after work to just sit and talk to one another. We are starting to dream about our future again. She'll do little things for me. Sometimes (not often) she will give me hug or a kiss without me initiating it. She has asked me out on a couple of dates (that is very rare). As you see, there are little things that give me hope and help me continue to press on. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since school is out, what is keeping it going? Or is it? How are the kids fairing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since she had the fallout with the OM, he has backed away a lot and has told her he probably won't be contacting her anymore as he is very busy with work. I think she is seeing the emotional bond between them is not as strong as she thought - that's pretty tough for her to take. The justification for the affair is crumbling. Kids are fine. They are still in the dark as to what has happened and I pray it stays that way. <P>Keep us posted Ron.<P>Best wishes, <P>SHA<P>