Hi to all friends on the forum,<P>I want to tell you what a great comfort this forum has brought to me this past week. I sign on and when the site is down, I get depressed about it. <P>I just want to update you on a few things. <P>I went to counseling with the kids last night. The counselor said it is not good for the girls to see their dad with this OW so soon. Yes it hurts me but it hurts them worse. She said that they just saw their dad with us forever and he has only been gone a month, in that time he has taken them twice. SO since they haven't really established this new kind of relationship with him, they deserve his undivided attention. She said most experts don't recommend even exposing the kids if you don't know its a serious committment, which after 5 weeks, is it serious?? <P>I didn't go in to the session to let the girls have their honesty. Do you know what I found out? Every time H talks to them, he tells them to be bad for mom, not listen to mom, asks if men are over or calling, asking when they want to meet his new girlfriend, and telling them he never left them, just mommy. Yet he tells them he still loves mommy. My kids are SO confused. I did not know all this because on their phone calls I stand there and mostly hear "yes or no" answers.<P>The counselor told me the girls told her that I loved daddy very much and cried all the time. They said they knew that mommy tried really hard to save the family but feels bad that she failed. THey said they never heard mommy say one bad thing about daddy ever,(which is all true) they said that daddy told his mommy (kids grandma) that he still loved me on one of their visits and grandma said, but if your not happy, just leave. Come to find out grandma also told their dad that mom was bad mouthing him (and I never did to her either). All I ever did was cry and tell people I would do anything for him to come home.They all told me to forget him in move on. They all said he is a piece of garbage and get rid of him. To me, thats his family bad mouthing. <P>So the sad thing is by law, the kids have to go. When my H was little his mom and dad divorced and his mom was really creating a lot of trouble for the children. I see it starting again with us now.<P>The strange thing is I haven't cried in about 3 days. Even when he says totally awful and disgusting things, I just don't know how I feel about him anymore. I really felt like I was losing my love for him today. Is this possible while on Plan A? To develop these serious doubts about whether I can ever be with a man who is doing all this to me??<P>He is filing for divorce today with his stolen tax refund money. He refuses to pay support. He said he knows that he has to eventually but by him holding it now, it causes me to get behind on bills and ruin my credit(i have perfect credit) and he says I deserve it all. And put me in a big loss. He says he thinks its funny.He also refuses to pay any bills even ones that both our names on it. The car he is driving is in my name and he is paying that so far, but for how long, I don't know.<P>So he is coming here supposedly with the police tonite to take what ever he wants. This is his words, not mine. HE says first thing he is taking is the computer because that is my only sense of happiness outside of the kids. He is being totally cruel. I almost wonder what grounds he is "divorcing me on". Because this is pure chaos.<P>So I may be away for a while. I can try and get web tv soon, but thats no guarantee. I will return as soon as I can, because I am getting addicted to this place.<P>Please let me know if you think I belong on Plan A or Plan B. How can you be on Plan A if there is divorce proceedings and you are being financially ruined. How chipper and pleasant can I be when in my heart right now I despise him for doing this to me and the kids. How can I be on Plan B if I have been forced to have daily contact with him "in the name of the kids". He makes excuses to call about them than quickly the subject changes.<P>Like I said yesterday, I almost feel numb. God bless you all and I hope I can return to join you all again.

lonelymom:<P>I've only got a few minutes, but here's a couple bits.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just don't know how I feel about him anymore. I really felt like I was losing my love for him today. Is this possible while on Plan A? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not only is it possible, but it's a major factor to why there is a limit on Plan A. Even though I fully endorse it as an important tool to get through infidelity---it hurts like hell. And you need to go to a plan B separation before you lose ALL the love for him. And he sounds like he's quickly draining your lovebank. <P>I would recommend that you start talking with a lawyer very soon. His threats of coming over and taking stuff (under police escort) sound fishy to me---marital assets are "ours", and I don't think he has a right to rifle through your house on a shopping spree. You may also want to file a restraining order against him, that'd keep him away from the house. But the bottom line is that you're going to need solid legal advice, so I'd get yourself to a lawyer very soon.

lonelymom:<P>I've only got a few minutes, but here's a couple bits.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just don't know how I feel about him anymore. I really felt like I was losing my love for him today. Is this possible while on Plan A? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not only is it possible, but it's a major factor to why there is a limit on Plan A. Even though I fully endorse it as an important tool to get through infidelity---it hurts like hell. And you need to go to a plan B separation before you lose ALL the love for him. And he sounds like he's quickly draining your lovebank. <P>I would recommend that you start talking with a lawyer very soon. His threats of coming over and taking stuff (under police escort) sound fishy to me---marital assets are "ours", and I don't think he has a right to rifle through your house on a shopping spree. You may also want to file a restraining order against him, that'd keep him away from the house. But the bottom line is that you're going to need solid legal advice, so I'd get yourself to a lawyer very soon.

lonelymom<P>Yes it is possible to be in plan A even during divorce proceedings, just ask NSR, he is an amazing man. <P>As far as your H taking what he wants from your marital home..... Let him take anything that is his in the way of personal belongings. Let him take anything that will *NOT* result in a hardship for you. ie: he can't take the stove, snow blower, etc. Yes, he may try and household necessities, but I doubt any policeman/woman is going to let it happen.<P>The most important thing you can do is document EVERYTHING he takes. Get a clip board and stand at the door and as he takes each item out write down EVERY item that leaves your home. <P>As far as the PC is concerned..... Call the local autorities explain the situation to them. Tell them it is the only PC you own and the children need it to do school work on. If they tell you they can't stop him from taking it then try this.... Seeing as he hasn't given you any money for support I guess it shouldn't surprise him if when he gets there tonight to cherry pick through your home that the PC is NOT there. You had to sell it to buy groceries, didn't you? <P>To keep the kids from getting involved in this put the PC in YOUR bedroom (but get it out of the house tonight so he won't be able to find it)from now on. Keep the door locked at all times. That way the kids won't know you still have it. <P>Speaking of locks... Have the locks changed on your home TODAY. Also if you have an electric garage door either keep it unplugged when you aren't home or sleeping or have the it reprogramed so his controller won't work any longer.<P>I know you don't want to do these things but if you don't he could end up taking things you and the kids need to survive. <P>Keep in mind you'll want to be pleasent even when he is hauling out his belongings. If you want to continue plan A. Heck, you can smile sweetly and even suggest to him to take this or that. Just make sure the things you suggest are things you don't really need.<P>One more thing...... When my H left he wanted to take things like home movies, pic's of the kids etc.. My kids are older and they made it very clear to their dad he could not have any of those types of things. They told him if he wants to see them he should be here to see them. To this day he has zero pic's of them (they even made him give them the pic's he had of them in his wallet) and no home videos either. It wouldn't surprise me if your H will want to take these things, as well. If I were you I'd pack up all those things and take them somewhere untill he has taken what he wants. If he asks for them just play dumb, smile sweetly and say you just can't imagine where they may be. Offer to search for them at a later date.<P>I hate to suggest things to you that are less than above board, but some times desperate times require desperate measures.<P>Good Luck,<P>Fingers Crossed

Lonely Mom,<P>I am so sad for you, and I really don't know what to say.<P>I can not understand why your H is being sooo mean.<P>If he takes your computer I will personally start a collection on this site to get you a new one.<P>I promise!

lonelymom--<P>You hang in there! I know your hurt must feel overwhelming right now, but you CAN survive this! H is out of his mind. Do NOT let his selfish, angry actions spill over onto how you conduct yourself.<P>Here's my suggestions:<P>Contact an attorney well versed in domestic law. Now. Get an appointment for consultation as soon as possible by impressing upon them the urgency.<P>H's threat of police accompanying him to remove things from the house...hmm. You haven't been served with any legal documents so I don't think the police have any basis TO assist him. But since he's threatening this, I agree with the suggestion of a restraining order. Go get one until this can be hashed out through attorneys. Now.<P>H is being a real a** in not helping with bills and child support. He's chosen to play it the hard way. Okay. Do NOT let him get under your skin. Do not demand that since he's not paying support he WILL provide the kids with necessary items during visits. You be your normal, sweet self and provide whatever the kids might need, just the same as you would for a trip overnight with any other relative. <P>Believe me, we've been through lying exes, court battles, manipulations through children, the whole 9 yards. My e-mail is LucksLEC@aol.com if you'd like to correspond. We're ALL here for you to lend you a listening ear and any advice/comfort possible!

Lonelymom,<P>I hate to advise thise because it is a major LB...f I were in yoiur shoes I'd try and beat him to the punch...File first on grounds of abanfdonment...He might have a resentment already but you <B>must</B> protect yourself...I agree with FC...anything you want to keep...pack it in your car right now and take it somewhere that he won't find it...remember...our spouces are mientally ill right now and acting solely on thier feelings...If you can see an attorney this morning...get your PC out of your house right now...if he asks where it is tell him, in front of the sherriff you sold it because he abandoned his family and refuses to offer support financialy...Find a lawyer today and file before he does...In NC abandonment is a huge onfraction...Protect yourself...What I just stated goes completely against the MB principles, however it sopunds as if he,s getting ready to completely scrwe you over...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

lonelymom,<BR><BR>Your husband's conduct is absolutely reprehensible. It has to be one of the uglier separations I've ever heard about - I can understand how unmet needs lead to infidelity and all that, but where did *this* Frankenstein of a husband come from???<BR><BR>I agree with the others that you should get the computer somewhere where your H won't be able to find it. I don't know whether filing for divorce first is a good idea - you need to ask a lawyer. Doing that could send a message to your H that, regardless of how the affair ends (and it will end badly, most of them do), you wanted a divorce. Filing could say, "I don't care what happens with the affair - our marriage is over."<BR><BR>I have to admit, I am just perplexed by your H's viciousness.<BR><BR>Bystander

Greetings to all who replied. Sorry I am so emotionally distraught I did not write down each of your id names to personally reply. <P>You guys are so sweet and kind that I actually cried reading the replies. I haven't cried over my H in about 3 days. I think I am in shock for what he has done.<P>He was never like this when we were together. Well he was very selfish, had to have everything , golf, cologne, sports, hobbies, you name it. I always was secretly angry with his selfishness, but I justified it in my head, some husbands are worse, he could be cheating. Well like I said in another post, be careful what you think about because sometimes it comes true.<P>I swear to you guys on this post, my whole marriage, and the 7 years before it I was so good to him. When we were teens, he got into trouble, and had to go away four months, I stuck by him. A few years later, he got involved in drugs, I stuck by and helped him overcome it. His family gets so mad at him they have abandoned him several times. Sometimes I was the only one there for him. He has put me through everything from alcohol, drugs, strip bars, sports addictions, money addictions, basically any addiction in the book. I always was a bit disappointed, but again, I justified it , well at least he's not cheating. I tried so hard to be the picture perfect wife or even supermom as one writer referred . I spent so much time trying to please him, I never noticed he didn't please me. Hardly at all. <P>This recent vindictive behavior and his outright obvious attempts to hurt me financially are so hard for me to understand. What could I have done to deserve such punishment. I gave him 3 beautiful children and he wants to ruin me and what happens to them if he does. I almost wonder if this is a ploy to ruin me so he can get the kids. I can't understand how 2 Thursdays ago, he was coming home. He went to her house and I don't know what was said or done but he changed his mind. I was so hurt again. Worse than xmas.<P>Just when I think he can't possibly hurt me more, he does. Stolen taxes, threats, no money, he even charged up some credit cards his first week gone and now I have that to deal with. He tells me he is going to marry OW and have a baby. (I hope when the doctor reverses the vasectomy he suffers an unfortunate slip with that scalpal too). I know he is trying to hurt me. <P>Logically, he got this job in March of last year. We spent every minute together, no way he could have really done too much until about September of last year. Around November, I think he started to change. I didn't notice it. I am now beginning to wonder when the OW really came into the picture, it doesn't seem like 3 days before xmas is logical. I would call her and ask, but he has her so brainwashed, and she is such a b*tch, I'd get no where right now. <P>I appreciate all or your support. I guess today I can't think about Plan A or Plan B. But a Plan to somehow get my life back in order. Its hard to be on plan a when he is telling me he wants a divorce and that I am going to get raked through the coals. What am I supposed to do? Smile and say Oh thanks honey.<P>I called legal aid today. What a mess. I have to go file for custody, then support then get all that settled and "then" they will do the divorce. That could take 8 months in our town. If I had money (like stolen taxes) I could have one lawyer do it all out of court. What a god awful mess. And on xmas eve day, I thanked God for giving me such a wonderful life . Then the next day BOOM.<P>Oh lastly, my best friend, reminded me of a very important fact. We own 2 cars, both in my name. Yes, he is paying so far on the one he drives, BUT it is all in my name, insured, registered. She says if he shows up to take the PC I can say "thanks officer, now you can escort me to put this car in the garage and then I am to take the plates off it and sell it. We owe less than the value on that, I should be able to squeeze out $2000 for a lawyer with that money. I know, it is cruel, but he lives with OW and she drives him to work anyhow. He refuses to take the kids unless its his terms and will bring her here to get them anyhow. I never wanted to do that, because then he is "trapped" with her. Sooner or later, he will either just adjust to her, and her schemes or wake up. He is so mentally unstable, I don't see him waking up. I think his brain went into shock on the Y2K party he spent WITH OW.<P>I am going to hide the PC before he gets here, his lawyer is at 430 so I have a little more time. If you guys don't hear from me, you will know why. My neighbor can help me this week with the web tv, so I will be back!!! <P>Thanks again for your support and wishes.

Well I think you have more problems to worry about instead of which "Plan" to use. How could a person even think of kissing somebody's butt (plan A) when they are treating you and your children like that? Do you have an attorney? First off, he CAN'T continue to do the things that he has been doing unless you let him. He can not come into the home and remove whatever he wants. What he can do is come in and get some personal belongings and if I were you, I'd INSIST on a police escort. Not for his sake, but for yours. His not paying you any money also would not fly if you had an attorney. The courts just don't allow it. He would be ordered to pay your bills until a final divorce hearing. Don't ge me wrong, I think it's just great if somebody wants to save their marriage despite what their spouse did to them but when it comes down to causing proverty and the safetly for your children I think your priorities need to change. Why is he so bitter and angry? He acts more like it was YOU that had the affair instead of him! Anyhow, there are laws out there that will protect you and stop him from harassing you but you need to take steps towards that. Take care of yourself and your children and best of luck to you.

As a side note, since nobody else has brought it up:<P>When your H shows up in the car that's in <I>your</I>name, tell the police that it's <I>your</I> vehicle and that you would like it to either be returned to you <B>immediately</B>, or have him arrested for auto theft. <P>After all, the car <I>is</I> in <I>your</I> name. Insist upon repossessing it <B>immediately</B>. Since it is only in your name, I'd advise also selling it ASAP to help pay for your bills and keep your credit rating afloat. <P>I agree with the above advice regarding changing your locks (do this ASAP!), documenting (with a video camera if possible) everything he removes when he comes over, maintaining a calm and pleasant demeanor, and allowing him only to take what are clearly his possessions. Only allow him to take his clothes, magazines, personal bathroom items, and other such small stuff. If he attempts to remove anything like the PC, TV, or any other major or expensive item, inform the police that these are <I>yours</I> and he has no legal right to remove these items. <P>I do disagree with the advice given to hide things and claim that they were sold. Even if you have a very good reason to have done so, a judge will not look at all kindly upon a person disposing of joint marital property for their own benefit (no matter how righteously justifiable) and it could influence things negatively against you in divorce court.<P>You may wish to record all your phone conversations with him. Politely remind him that you are recording everything for legal purposes, and his abusive behaviour toward you over the phone should either stop completely, or at the very least be documented to your advantage. Record your children's phone conversations as well - for legal purposes (you have enough grounds to claim he is subjecting the children to emotional/mental abuse with the things he is saying about you to them). You might even want to take a portable recorder with you when you are forced to have personal meetings with him and let him know everything is being carefully documented.<P>Considering what your counsellor has told you, you may also want to ask the court to only allow your psycho H supervised visits with the children, on account of the unrelenting and vicious emotional and mental trauma they suffer each time they are forced into contact with him. Perhaps he'll change his tune when every visit he has with his kids is watched over by a social worker eager to justify their job by documenting evidence of abuse of any kind...<P>Once your fiendish H realises you will not tolerate or allow him to abuse you, and that his own behaviour will damn him, he'll at the very least be forced into behaving like a human being. Either that, or he'll end losing everything and in jail to boot.<P>I am so sorry this had to happen. Protect yourself and your children!<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

Thank you all for your kind advice.<P>Here is the latest update in my unfortunate life. I spoke to a friend who is a police officer. She had a few choice words for H and needless to say she is stepping in. She is alerting the officers in our area, of the whole true story from start to finish, I have been talking to her daily as we are friends. She didn't want to fill my head unless it was needed BUT here is what she said. <P>The police will allow just what the post above me said, personal stuff, toiletries, etc. Seeing as I already gave him his golf clubs, his sony playstation, his clothes and his cd's, he does have some clothes here, but other than that, she said to tell the officers, it was all accumulated in the marriage except for which items I had before. Then, the officers will tell him to file a civil suit. She said to go ahead and take the car plates and put the car in the garage, the police will let him call for a ride home. But that is a risk, because judge may say he needs that car to work to pay for the support. BUT he hasn't paid for anything but a lawyer til now, so then again, it could go either way. I hesitate to take the car for the fact that it is all the more closer and dependable he will become on OW. But I have to do it eventually. Police officer friend also said if he HITS AND RUNS someone, or DWI hurts someone, I am screwed royally in this matter. <P>I had to laugh about the pictures and family movies, I am glad I would have never thought of that. He won't want them now, and won't think of them, but someday he will.<P>I agree, how can I be on Plan A or Plan B? Right now I am on Plan Survival. Next week I can reevaluate this more. I have never seen this awful disgusting side to him. <P>In your forums terms, my LOVE BANK is in the negative right now. ANd he has LB'd me from here til next year. See I will get the hang of all this, give me another week!!!! <P>I have been reading the posts and have yet to find anyone in this viscious cycle I am in. Most seem to be either living together, or apart, but Plan A is showing results. <P>Those years ago, when we split, it did get ugly in the beginning. Strange enough, I have blocked out so much. The saying you can forgive but not forget. Well, I forgot A LOT. But what I was saying was that as soon as I started seeing someone else, and appeared happy all h*ll broke loose and he wanted me back. He doesn't want me when no one wants me, he wants me when someone else does.<P>Does this make sense?? To me, it doesn't, I am just telling you what happened before. As for my incident last Saturday night that some of you know about, now I am very glad it happened, because quite honestly I would be a pitiful mess right now if it hadn't. At least I have "some" self esteem right now. <P>I hate to get ugly on all this, but like someone said, I am allowing it if I don't fight back. And as far as his "love bank" and all, after all I have done, I should have about a year of LBing before I am in the negative!! Unless losing your mind, nulls and voids all,(like his case)<P>Thank you all again, I will sign on tonite after kids in bed and let you know if I am still here!!!! Prayers to you all.<P>

lonelymom,<BR>I just wanted to let you know that there are others out here who are apart, and for whom Plan A is apparently producing no results - like me, for instance.<P>

Hi everyone, <P>Its almost 8pm EST. His lawyers appointment was at 4:30pm. Maybe I am safe for tonite! The locks have been changed (courtesy of H dad). And I know what to say if the police come. So I guess I will see you all tomorrow. I am going to bed early tonite as mental exhaustion is kicking in. Thanks to all for your support today. <P>By the way, if H files for divorce today, at 4:30 pm, does anyone know how long it could take until I am served. I assume papers would be drawn up and served to me? That would take a few days, right? Please let me know if you know. <P>Thanks, good night and god bless!

In my state it takes two or three weeks after filing before you are served.<BR>

Elixer has given you some really good advice, along with the others. <P>"I almost wonder if this is a ploy to ruin me so he can get the kids." YES!! He doesn't want to pay child support, right? This is most likely what he is up to. Please be very careful here. Document everything. I won our custody battle based on the extensive documentation I had kept (and my son was old enough to choose). This is all very scary, lonelymom, and I can empathize. Been there and done that very recently.<P>Please be careful, and know that the MB members are here to give you moral support and encouragement. <P>God bless,<BR>AW

Lonelymom,<P>I'm sorry you are going through this. I know it is not easy. <P>Everyone here has given you good advice. I don't know what state you are in, but here, I got a Temporary Domestic Order from the court. It states that neither party can remove items (other than personal items like cloths & toiletries) from the marrital home. <BR>That insurance cannot be changed or cancled. <BR>That both parties must pay a fair and equitable share of all bills that benifit both parties (ie insurance & cars - if you don't take it away) and pay seperatly anything that doesn't benifit the other person (not including child support issues), and that any debts acquired that do not benifit both must be paid by the one who acquires them. <P>I would suggest you do everything in your power to get a lawyer ASAP. <BR>Notify the credit card companies know that you are not responsible for charges he makes/made after he moved out, and if the cards are in your name, have them canceled and reissue you a new card & acct. number. <P>The court should also provide a temporary support agreement for you children & yourself. You need to talk to a lawyer, they will be able to tell you exactly what your state allows. <P>I know this seem kind of scattered, but I'm typing as I'm thinking, and I'm a little scattered .<P>My thoughts & prayers are with you.<BR>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>