H called me tonight. I think from OW's house. She yelled into the phone a few times (and not very nice things). He asked what financial considerations were not considered. He kept asking me why I wouldn't sign. I just told him that I believe in marriage. I knew that the person I married was still in there. He said he had been unhappy the whole time we were together. I told him that I knew I wasn't perfect, but no one is. He said he knew two people that were (him and OW). <P>Why does he hate me so much?? He said he could care less whether I lived or died. What happened to the man I married? I know you'll say it is the addiction talking, but I'm not so sure. There was such contempt in his voice. The sad thing is there were a couple of times that he was going to hang up and I kept him on the phone. I just wanted to hear his voice a little longer. <P>He also said that he was going to move to back to the place we used to live - which is where I am going when I graduate. I don't know how I will deal with him and OW in my "new start".<P>Any help/advice tonight?

OK,<BR>I am really torn here......<P>I know many would say that he is caught up in the addiction, he is not himself, many betrayers say horrible, mean, and nasty things, that you should not sign if you truly do not want a divorce......<P>you still love him...i completely understand the concept..truly i do.....<P>But.........<P>to continuously heap verbal abuse on you, and to allow his 'boytoy' to abuse you this way as well, and especially that whole 'doesn't care if you live or die' thing, honey, I know you love him, you believe in marriage...and i also understand how difficult it is to 'plan-anything' from another school and state, but the level of disrespect is, for me, totally unacceptable....I know you want to hear his voice, but do you really need to subject yourself to those words?...just to hear the voice????<P>we here are supposed to support, without judgment.....but, this guy is a piece of work....a real.....well, it's profane and I do not want to offend...<P>give yourself a HUGE hug....<P>(((((((((((((((((((((((((((for you))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>perhaps someone else here on the board who has taken and heard abuse and crap like the stuff spewing from him can be of better help than i.....<P>i just want to wrap you up, take you home, feed you some chicken soup, and tell you that everything is going to be ok.....for you....that no matter what the end result is, you have to take care of, and focus on you.<P>the best advice i read here today was, if your best friend was telling you this, and it had happened to her, what advice would you give ?<P>there is a limit, I believe to the emotional abuse one should be willing to accept...if he is not able to speak to you calmly, respectfully and without interference from the brain-dead bimbo, then perhaps save yourself alot of pain and don't speak to him until he can do so...<P><BR>I'm so sorry you went thru that...and I am so sorry that I cannot be of more help.....I ant you to know, however, that you are worth more than how you are being treated right now....<P><BR>Dylan

Ann,<BR> It sounds so familiar. The hate and the contempt. My H told me our son would just have to deal with it when I told him that son's blood pressure shot up because of his leaving. This was just a month after transplant surgery that H had donated his kidney for. Now he wants to go with us to the doctor's. But he still feels the same about me and OW. They way I figure they have have to hate us amd try to make us hate them because of the guilt. He even threaten to file bankruptcy if I pushed him about pay any bills. (his included) Now he pays half of everything. His idea. But the change didn't start happening till 4 months after he left and was very gradual. They tell us things were alway bad never anything good in the marriage. This is part of the fantasy things had to be bad because other wise they would have never done this. It is their excuse. They have to have one to deal with the guilt. Hang in there stick to your guns about the divorce. The fantasy has to be hit by reality. The major problem is that it take so long and reality comes so slowly it is not an overnight happening. Prayers and {{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}} email me anytime<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

I think that if I were you, I would tell him that you will not talk to him if the OW is going to be around.<P>I think that part of why he is saying things like that is because she is there by him and that is what she wants to hear. He is being pressured by her presence to react that way...<P>SDS is right... being a betrayer, I blamed many of my problems on my H because it made it easier on me. And yes, when reality finally hits... boy, do you feel foolish. It is a time consuming thing... and I agree that you should stick to your guns and don't do what you are not ready to do!<BR>

StudentWife,<P>In my opinion, and I think it makes sense, it is pointless to pursue a relationship with someone who is romantically attached to someone else. I believe there are very few people who are capable of maintaining long term romantic relationships with 2 or more people at a time. There are a few examples from history, but I believe that it is very rare. The human brain just isn't weird that way.<P>The result in a situation like this, I believe, is that as long as your H is in love with the OP, he is not capable of continuing a romantic relationship or marriage with you. Until that relationship dies it's own miserable death (and it will, I just can't say when), you don't stand a chance.<P>That's harsh, but I believe it's true.<P>I think the whole Plan A - Plan B system strangely has this concept as an underlying premise. If you really follow plan A, at best you are leaving a good impression and learning how to be friendly with someone who is no longer in the relationship. That activity "reformulates" the relationship if you ask me. Also, since a true plan A person doesn't interfere with the thought process of their spouse, you also give up any influence you may have had. In Plan B you don't even talk to them. If you ask me the whole thing is designed to save you from any further embarrassment and to actually facilitate allowing your spouse to do whatever they choose, including pursue a relationship with the OP if they so desire.<P>I think it works because once you free your spouse to pursue that relationship if they so choose, then suddenly that relationship must stand on it's own. Over all, these relationships are highly unsuccessful, so it's not a bad strategy. But if you (I mean the general you, anybody) pursues their wayward spouse, the OP becomes a refuge from this "manipulative needy person who won't leave me alone!" I think you can actually prolong the extramarital relationship for years this way. (I'm not saying you are any of those things, but what is important here is how your H and his OW decide to see you. I bet they don't spend their time trying to think of nice things to say.)<P>I suggest you stop telling him you won't sign because you believe in marriage. He knows you believe in marriage. What you are really saying to him is that you won't sign because you think he should believe in marriage too. In particular his marriage to you. Unfortunately, at this point he does not appear to. And you can't make him. He has to come to that place on his own. Will he ever? I have no idea.<P>I would instead adopt an approach more in line with the situation. You can tell him you love him and you want him to be happy. You can tell him that this isn't what you want. You can ask him to call you if he ever changes his mind, and tell him the door will be open for him. But then you tell him you will sign because it is what he wants, and you are doing it for him. Then sign the bloody thing. Then wish him the best, say you love him if you want, cry, etc., and go home. Then get on with your life.<P>It's way easier said than done. I know because it is almost word for word exactly what I said and did, except that then I ad to go draft the agreements and it took some time. It was perhaps the hardest thing I ever did.<P>As a word of advice though, it didn't work for me. Although I believe it did shorten the time it took my ex wife to ditch the OP, no reconciliation was possible by then, and we both knew it. So don't take any of this advice unless it works for you.<P>

I agree with Dylan, you need chicken soup, hot chocolate, and big warm quilt.<BR>Consider in done in virtual reality.<P>However there is real life. For all the talk about addiction and fantasy lives, this man is behaving in a way that is totally reprehensible. He is responsible for his actions. Anyone can have an affair, but sustained cruelty is an indication of character. Is this the man you want to be the father of your children?<P>Based on what I have heard of him I think you will eventually be grateful. I know it hurts now, and hurts a lot. But you have a lot of life left and now you won't have to share it with a jerk.

StudentWife - nobody should be treated the way he is treating you - think of it this way, if a friend of yours said those things to you or did those things to you, would you consider them a friend or want to be around them?? A mate is a big step up from a friend, and there is really not much of an excuse for his conduct towards you!<P>I am sure it hurts alot to think about all the stuff he said and wonder why etc..., but anyone deserves far better than what you are getting!!<P>Nonplused gave some great advice - think about it and do what you can to just take care of yourself during all this - find a support group or counselor to talk to, find ways to do things that will increase your self-esteem and self-respect. Try not to subject yourself to all that hurt he is piling on you!! Think about doing what Nonplused said - tell him you love him and want him to be happy and that if he ever changes his mind, he can call you to talk - then as hard as it may be, you have to try to get on with your life and take care of yourself!<P>Be Strong, and don't hesitate to post here for help or just to vent or talk!!!