She informed me she was going away for the weekend to find herself. She said the counselor told her she needs to be by herself for the weekend to find herself which i wanted to believe but now don't think its true. Noticed that a set of fancy underwear was missing. So i guess the EA is moving to a PA.I planned A'd it hard tonight had dinner ready, had the kids give her a vday card adn i gave her one. She even gave me a hug. She said she guesses she has to go through with it cause the hotel will still charge her and i told her she didn't have to go but if she thinks it would help go. That was so hard to not lovebust. I am praying that she wakes up before it happens and praying that i can get through this weekend. Why did it have to be this weekend??? The 14th means so much to me it was the 1st time i told her i loved her. WHo is this person i love? GOD HELP ME!!! YOU HAVE A PLAN BUT THIS IS SO HARD! I am considering plan B after monday but i don't know if i can go through with it but am afraid i will love bust big time come Monday and she acts like nothing happened.<P>Derek

You have my prayers and how about some cyber hand holding. I have been in the eact same place as you. At our counseling sessionH told me he wanted to leave. Counselor talked him out of it at that time and told him he needed to have time ALONE to think about what he wanted. I left to visit my daughter H was home alone but later I found out she was with him. I had that feeling that she would be but I left anyway and spent a horrible weekend crying the whole time. Believe it or not I came home and never said a word. I didn't have any proof just that gut feeling. But I wanted to save my marriage I wanted to try anything and everything to make it work, because of this I was able to not love bust at least not that time. I didn't find out for sure until just before he did leave three months later.<BR>I know the hell you are going through and I know how hard it is. So lots of {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}} and prayers for you and your family.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

{{{{{{{{{{<B>Derek</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I feel for you...<BR>My W went to a PA even before my D-day... so out situation is a bit different...<P>But...<P>You really need to stick with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... as long as you can! I understand the significance of V-day for you... but try to get beyond this day as best you can... minimize the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!<P>When your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A> (how much you love your W)... get depleted... and/or when you can't control your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bustering</A>.... that will be the time for <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>.<P>If you're serious about <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... consider a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A>. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>! He can best give you guidance as <B>when</B> to move to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>.<P>I'm praying for you Derek... <P>Jim

Thanks SDS and NSR, I made it through last night got a little sleep and my hope of her coming home didn't come true. I will keep praying for strength and for her to wake up. I was just hoping the guilt would eat her up and she wouldn't be able to go through with it which there is still that chance but i doubt it. I just don't know how to plan a when she is going to come over and act like nothing happened. NSR you say do not confront, we should just go along with it and act like we are stupid about the whole thing. I even ordered her yellow roses for monday a couple weeks ago maybe i should stop them, nah let them make her feel even worse. I am going to ask her for our checkbook so i can pay some bills in which i will ask her how much this hotel cost. I can't believe i paid for there weekend together how wrong is that. 2 1/2 more days to get through, maybe now that he got what he wanted he'll stop probably not but i can hope. <P>Derek

Hi Derek, I'm so sorry the situation is not improving as you wished.It hurts and everyday that passes our hopes seem to go down. However I also agree that you should try to keep on plan A for a bit longer if you feel you can.Althoug she is still doing things in the selfish way all affairs work, she does have doubts, she is still going to counselling and she still seems to have moments where she recognizes she probably shouldn't be doing it.I know it doesn't feel like much, but bellieve me , it doesn't look all that impossible to still work it out.<BR>I personally think all affairs have to go trough different stages until they're actually finished.In my experience and from what I've read up to know, not all cases where it ended rapidly are so unless the affair is only discovered when most of the stages were passed. I firmly believe this, derek, and it seems that in your w's case, she didn't go trough all of them yet. But she will, and by then the affair won't seem as important for her as it is now.And it's at that time that all the plan A"ing" will start to give some more positive results.<BR>Althoug my H's affair was discovered in the first week it started, and at times my H seemed to want to end it, it was still too new. The curiosity of how it would be, the newness of the relationship will always get him to cave in and go for it.After some time, it wasn't that new anymore, and since the ow wasn't here learning how to keep the relationship in tip top shape ( ), it started to be uninteresting again it rapidly reached the point where we had been before the affair happened. As I kept plan A ( and by the way, we're both plan A"ing" right now, and for life ) and learned more about how relationships work, it became easier to help him end it.But it only ended because it had ( in a question of months ) gone torugh what we had gone in 16 years:new relationship, excitment and curiosity, bonding, setting routines, setling down. Since they didn't have all the back history we had, the last stage created an opening for him to really think if it was worth risking everything we had together for something that most probably would go in the same direction and slowly break the fantasy and reenter reality. A better reality which I made an effort to create during those painfull months.<BR>Unfortunately I also believe that at the stage your wife is in, time alone to find themselves, even if sincere when decided, many times ends in time shared with the op. My H also wanted time alone to be himself, and he also ended spending that time with ow, however in the end it worked in our advantage because that longer time together helped him see that it wouldn't be that different with her after all.<BR>SO if you can, please hold onto plan A a bit longer.<BR>If you feel you no longer can without losing your love for your w, then do read nsr suggestions they will help you, but think carefully before. Although plan B has worked, I still believe plan A has more chances, specially when we're still seing some positive thing happening no matter how insignificant they seem.<BR>A big hug<BR>ANd count on my prayers<BR>Kat<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited February 12, 2000).]

Derek,<P>No...<BR>You don't have to act "stupid"...<BR><B>Do</B> let her know that what she is doing is hurting you. That is being honest with her, but still let's her know that what she is doing is wrong!<P>Keep the yellow roses coming!<BR>Ah... yes... yellow roses... my W's favorite too!<P>As far as finances are concerned...<BR>it may get worse...<BR>Right now she may be using that money on a hotel with the OM... it could escalate where she takes "your" money to file for divorce (as my W did).<BR>Some tighter controls... or at least good record keeping is in order. Maybe open up a separate account... just as a place of emergency(to transfer to)... but don't split you assets right away.<P>I'm still praying for you Derek... <BR>I've been were you are at... and it is so close to what I envision hell to be.<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited February 12, 2000).]

I am going to play devils advocate here and ask everyone at what point does plan A enable the affair???<P>If your W is still lying to you and the EA is now turning physical then isn't she taking advantage of your good nature (plan A)?<P>Not that you should love bust but at the moment she does not have to make up her mind. She has you both and there are no reprecussions to her actions. With plan B, at least there are things she has to give up to continue with her behavior. The hope with plan B is that she does not like giving thoses things up -however there is a risk in using plan B too.<P>I am not voting here for plan A or B but I was given good advice at one point to go to a type B plan. It was the only thing that worked for me. I think I actually enabled the affair by not doing it sooner. I also think the sooner I did it, the better off I would have been becasue the EA would not have had the opportunity to go so deep.<P>Here is another question - isn't her behavior very disrespectful of you? At what point do you or any of us stand up and say..."Hey, I may love you but I deserve to be treated better that this. You can see the OP but as long as you do, you can not see me.<P>How do we all keep our self respect during this? I give you a lot of credit for sending your W flowers during all of this. I do think that kind of thing can help, but I also wonder at what point does she think..boy do I have it made, my H knows and is not going to do anything????<P>It is all very complicated and it is hard to know the right thing to do.<P>Hang in there and follow you gut feelings regarding your actions.<P>Acacia

Plan is not an enabling the affair it is to build back the love deposit that have been withdrawn. It doesn't matter what plan you are in or even if you are in a plan. They are going to do what they want to do no matter what. That is something you have to accept. The things is you can yell scream and kick them out and what have you acomplished? You can be loving and kind no yelling or secreaming what does that accomplish? A sense that you are doing everything you can do. Who does it help you!!!!! You have the feeling that you are doing what you can and building some type of bases for hope later on. Plan A makes it easier for our spouse to return if we yell and scream with our ppushing them further away from us at a time we want them to know that we want them and love them. I maybe rambling but I had to respond. Maybe this helps. The way you respond may not change anything but it does keep the door open for later when they begin to come out of the fantasy.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

I'll be praying for you Derek. I understand the gut-wrenching pain you must be feeling now, having been in a similar situation with my H's adultery. The only thing that has helped in the restoration of our marriage is PRAYER (lots of it) and Plan A combined. In 17 years I have not seen my husband's heart as soft as it is now since I've been praying for him (he's not a Christian). God did that, it is answered prayer. In the last 4 months since we reconciled, my H has gone from hatred of me, determined to divorce me, to telling me recently that he "loves me with all his heart". Also, we have only had two arguments since reconcilation, both of which were settled peacably through the Grace of God. In our past it was not unusual for us to have heated, name calling fights that ended with each of us fuming at each other with no resolution. This is truly a Miracle from our Father in Heaven. Our God is an awesome God, and he will be with you during this trial. Please Trust Him, Derek. Don't give up, it will be worth it.

I just want to clarify that I am not advocating yelling or kicking anyone out - that would clearly be a BIG MISTAKE! <P>Instead I am only suggesting saying (in the most loving tone that you can muster) that you love your W and respect your W feelings for the OM and while it hurts you to think of her with him that you understand that she has a right to choose who to be with. But that in return you are asking her to respect the way you feel about her affair too. Although you love her more than words can experss, you feel that you can no longer continue your relationship with her while she continues to see him and that you hope she will find her way back to you in time.<P>I am only saying that by doing this the betrayer has to live with some consequence for continuing the affair (not having the comfort of 2 people filling her needs) and as a result may have some motivation to end it. <P><BR>Acacia<BR>

Acacia, although what you say is logicall and it even works in some cases, most times at the begining of an affair those consequencies don't affect the betrayer. The betrayer doesn't even want two people filling his/her needs, wants one : the op. The idea of plan A is to get the betrayer to get back to the stage where he/she can think instead of living in fantasy land, and that his/her feelings for the spouse come back from "amnesia" land( and before you argue that if the feelings aren't there what's the point?, they are, just hiding behind all the stuff coming from the affair )<BR>The consequences you're talking about aply in the cases where the betrayer is comfortable getting his needs met both at home and from the op so taking one away might get him/her to think about what will be missing and make a decision. And although it does happen, many times that is not the case, the affair and the fantasy that comes with it create an irreal idea that they want nothing from the spouse, so missing it won't really make much of a difference, that's what they want anyway, or at least think they want at the time.<BR>Kat<P><BR>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited February 12, 2000).]