Has anyone else out there felt like "Just what the !%#&^ did we win anyway? (See profile for details.) When this first happens you hold on with all you've got but after counceling and so much more I feel like I am on audition to always be beter than her. I realize our relationship was not a happy one for awhile. When you have kids with no real babysitter, etc. things get hard. I work from home to raise our kids. That is hard too. Because of Bad business investments my H made two years ago without really discussing it with me - we have been having an extra hard time. This is why overtime (when he got close to her) was crucial until this loan is payed off. Now he has been shifted to works nights. I am now responsible for dinner, homework , baths and all other parenting at night. Resentment took a big place in my heart. I felt abandoned and I took it out on him (lucky she saved him, right?). He felt abandoned and took to her. Sometimes now when I know he made a conscious decision he wanted me rather than her, I also feel - bull****. He did that 13+ years ago when we were married. Anyone else going through this? For a winner I 'm not feeling very glorious. Any advise from the betrayed or betrayers would be appreciated.<P>------------------<BR>

Been there, done that, got the gray hairs .<P>I think we all start out not wanting to lose our spouse, then we wonder why we would want to keep them.<P>I feel it stems from the loss of respect. I am so disallusioned by my H's behavior. He was my rock. I felt he was good and intelligent (selfish and arrogant too). Now I feel, "HOW COULD HE BE SO BLIND AND STUPID". I went from sharing my life with him to not knowing who or what he is.<P>I fear the respect will never be regained and so much of my feeling for him was based on respect a long time after the love was gone.<P>He asked me once (early on) why I didn't leave him in the beginning. This was during a really bad time so I told him it was because I knew he didn't love me enough at the time to have been the least bit affected by my leaving and that would be the ultimate hurt I could feel. I wanted to make him love me again so that he would see what he had lost. I know that is bad, but I appeased myself by hoping that my attitude might change as I healed. <P>I know this sound judgemental and cruel, but I wonder how many others of us betrayed have felt the same way.

WOW! You really put this eloquently! Yes, been there and run through that emotion. The thing that helped me was "After the Affair" which has a questionair in it in regards to why your actually staying to work things out. Not that it gave me the answer but it did make me think things through very clearly and I came to the decision that weather or not I won the booby prize or not I loved him and wanted this to work no matter what happened. I do love him, plain and simple, otherwise I wouldn't be questioning why and asking myself if this wouldn't be a better life without him. Some things are hard to decide in this world and only you can know what you truly want and then set yourself to making it work the way you want without second guessing. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

I certainly can understand you. FOr a while I felt something like that.<BR>We also had huge financial problems before the affair started, and were working 3 jobs, to pay loans. Our schedules were opposite, and we have two kids that still needed our time and supportas well as the house chores that were there waiting for me after working over 12 hours. If we didn't have much time to each other it wasn't exactly our fault. If our free times didn't coincide, it certainly wasn't done on purpose. If we were too tired even to talk, it wasn't because we didn't want to. Added to this I in the 2 years before the affair started I went trough the deaths of my mother and adoptive father, a serious ilness, and ongoing problems with inlaws. I was ready to snap. If we think about unmet needs, I wonder how I wasn't the one having the affair -really.<BR>And then the affair starts. I did ressent it and everything else. EVen when rebuilding started sometimes, specially when things didn't look that good, I would think to myself, was it really worth? All the work and effort. ALl the tears and pain? WHat do i have now?<BR>What I have now, is a better marriage than even before. The pride of having done my best. Happy kids that are growing with the same valus I grew with.A husband that is caring and does his best to meet my needs , even the ones that don't seem to important to him. And all the things I learned in here.<BR>SO I consider myself a winner after all.<BR>It's normal to sometiomes question ourselves, specially when live is throwing us another curve, but the sense of self worth and self respect is something quite important.<BR>I look back now, and although I can understand my doubts and I feel to good about myself and my marriage to regret any of what I've done.<BR>With time, I believe you will reach the same conclusion, but as with everything else, it takes time.<BR>By the way, my h's ow was also a coworker, and they still worked together after the affair ended for about 2 or 3 months. They still work for the same company now, although he changed his schedule so they're not working the same hours.<BR>Trust will come back, in a different way , but it takes time and a conscious effort to get it back. It might be somehow difficult at first, but if we look at the other option it gets easier to make the choice. After all the effort to rebuild and work things out, it certainly doesn't help to let our fear of being hurt again impose a life without trust. We're stronger than that.<BR>TO help you consider this:<BR>AS long as you see signs that your H is making an effort to work in this marriage with youyou have some choices and some results from those choices.<BR>Here goes:<BR>A) you can't trust him. You live in fear. You get anxious everytime something out of the routine happens. You're suspicious and question his resolve to work on the marriage. You are hurting.For a long time.You might ressent this so much that without noticing you are preventing your marriage to have a chance. Living without trust is not easy.<BR>What can happen:<BR>1) The affair is really over, he really doesn't want anything else with the ow. He really is trying to work in the marriage. With your lack of trust you prevented positive feelings and hapiness to happen. Things take longer to heal.<BR>2)Unfortunatley he wasn't really trying. Things don't work out. Your were hurting while you were trying and will still be hurting for some more time.<P>B) You choose to give trust a chance. You concentrate on positive things happening. You enjoy your time together and are not afraid when something unexpected happens. You're not hurting. Your energy is towards improving the marriage. <P>What can happen:<BR>1) Your trust was funded. He is really trying. THings are working better and better with time. The marriage gets sronger. All the hurt fades faster.<P>2) Unfortunatly it didn't work. Although you were happy for a while, thinking things were getting better, he wasn't really trying. It will hurt. But at least you ahd good moments, not only bad.<P>In my case after thinking about all this, I still felt I'd rather trust even if I would hurt in the end, than to be hurting trough the whole process.<BR>We risk disapointment and pain everyday with every decision we make, no matter about what.<BR>Most times we just trust it will work.It's a risk, but needs to be taken. The same happens in our cases. It's a risk. And we have to choose either to take it or not. I find that taking that risk is worth in the majority of cases,as long as we are seing some improvments no matter how small.<BR>Now the kind of trust we will get back, will be, in my opinion and experience,somewhat different from the "naive" trust we had before.We now know that things happen - and not only to other people, to us too. We now understand a bit better the phases and triggers, and learned all about unmet needs. So we're notgoing trough life thinking that it will never happen to us anymore. We're aware. SO our trust is an "educated" trust. We know what can happen, but we also learned all the tools that minimize the chances for it to happen.If we used them correctly and as a "life time maintenance" together with our spouses, chances are it won't happen again - there are exceptions, but they're not the majority. SO we trust our marriage, our spouses and ourselves.Which is just the idea.<BR>Hope this helps.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Thank You to "Tired Lulu" - he has always been my rock too, I married him when I was 20 years old. He's been much more than my rock. Thank You "Chick's" - I really Do love him. I guess I never really even wanted him to leave me as I was reading the note from her. and "Kat1" thank you, and God bless. Besides what has transpired in his job (we are working on a way for him to owrk from home - he says he really misses us) I have been faced with many trying times this year. My grandma past away, two siblings had VERY close calls with cancer and my Mom (who is a rock to all of us) found out that she has colon cancer that has gone too far to cure. My defenses were and sometimes still are down. With the help of all of you and God I know I really can make it. THANKS TO YOU ALL <P>------------------<BR>

Kat1<BR>You mentioned that staying made you feel you maintained your selfrespect.<P>I feel the time immediately after finding out I completely lost all selfrespect. I did things that since I have been so ashamed of. I helped him through withdrawal for the other woman by letting him tell me how beautiful and wonderful she was. He told me he loved her and I listened while I died inside. I learned from her what I could do for him. I may have made him love me again, but it was at the cost of my selfrespect and my recovery.<P>I can't help but feel that someone who is practicing a strict Plan A doesn't sacrifice their self respect.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I helped him through withdrawal for the other woman by letting him tell me how beautiful and wonderful she was. He told me he loved her and I listened while I died inside. I learned from her what I could do for him. I may have made him love me again, but it was at the cost of my selfrespect and my recovery. I can't help but feel that someone who is practicing a strict Plan A doesn't sacrifice their self respect. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I disagree. When they are in an affair, in withdrawal, THEY ARE IN A FANTASY. Why should it hurt my self-respect to hear his delusions?

I feel I lived a total lie for so long.<P>I acted like I loved him when I truly despised him so that he might love me again. I gave him what he needed when it was totally forced and insincere to deposit love units gambling that eventually he might satisfy atleast some of my needs.<P>I think a lot of it is due to the complete lack of self esteem and self worth I felt for our entire marriage. I feel that recovery from an affair is greatly affected by the quality of marriage the couple had managed to acheive before, even early in their marriage. I was never very happy in my marriage and never felt any importance or worth as a person in the eyes of my H.

Tired Lulu,<P>Boy, didn't know anyone else thought like that. I too figured at least I would first make so many deposits that he would know what he lost if it came to that. Didn't tell him, though.<P>I too helped him through withdrawal, he cried on my shoulder for her for hours many times. But it didn't touch my self-respect? More harm done to my respect for him while I was helping him recover. I also had a lot of insight to her through their 100 e-mails plus ICQ chats. I was obsessed to learn what he was getting from her.<P>If anyone had a chance to read my thread (started out down on myself), I'm really wondering if I won the biggest booby prize.

Do you also feel like a consolation prize for him.<P>He ended it with her because it was wrong. It was wrong because he was already married to me. I ruined it for him.<P>She was beautiful and exciting, but he was married to me, so he couldn't have beautiful and exciting and still do what was right.<P>She was taboo and thus even more exciting, I was his wife, very reliable and not much interest left.<P>He "gave her up" because he wanted to do what was right, not because he wanted me. I was part of the package.<P>I had to work and sacrifice in order to hopefully convince him that he wanted "me" again. I was a marriage to save, not a person to love. I was a housekeeper and freedom from childsupport.<P>I might be more now, but how can you be that for someone and then ever feel like anything else.<P>I have sacrificed. I have given up eating in order to stay thin. I have hidden tears and bitten back words that felt like my only release from the pain and anger. He "sacrificed" by giving up what made him "Trully Happy for the first time in my life" to "try to save our marriage" not to try to be trully happy with me.<P>I also feel that I have lied to the world. I have lied to my Mom who keeps asking me what is wrong and my answer is "Oh Mom, I'm Fine". We live a big secret to save his reputation.

Tired lulu, why should I have lost my self-respect? I did nothing wrong. My self-confidence when down, however. But it's back where it's supposed to be now.<BR>I did plan A for the whole time, and we are still continuing plan A together now.We feel it's not a quick fix for a bad situation, but something that will help our marriage and ourselves.<BR>Reading your post I sense the problem is deeper than just the affair and the way you are copping with it.I feel you should work on yourself, you need to get that self-confidence, self worth. Your H didn't stayed because the affair was wrong and he wanted to do the right thing, it was wrong when it started too, It was wrong when it continued, and he didn't avoid doing it because it was wrong. He's with you because he wants to, because it was his choice, and because you are worth it.<BR>Maybe he doesn't know how to convey that to you, or can't because he doesn't understand it himself yet, but believe me, he's not staying just to do the right thing.<BR>However, it is important that you regain your self esteem, so you can be positive and make him feel that his choice was right.<BR>You have to be yourself and have confidence in what you are.WHen you do things for him, you shouldn't do them just because you want him to be happy but because it makes you happy doing them. And doing thinks that you don't feel good about, will not help.<BR>Hearing how beatifull and wonderfull the ow was is quite commom, or how much our spouse loves her, or that she is the best thing that happened in their lives. Of course it's all that, in their fantasy life. However, in reality most times it is not so. Some time ago we had a survey in here, and it's interesting how many of us realised that the glamourous and beautifull ow was in many cases not as beautifull or glamorous as we though. <BR>Believe me lulu, if she was that important to him, no amount of wanting to do the right thing will have got him back to you.<BR>Please do something for your self. Maybe counseling - not because of the affair, but for yourself.You want to loose weight, do it for yourself, not just because of him . You want to do something for him, do it because you want to do it.<BR>I usually tell people when they are at the begining stages that it's very important that before anythign else, before decing which plan to adopt or what to do, we need to make sure of why we are deciding that way. If you decide you want to give your marriage a chance, make sure you know why, and think about what you will be able or not to do without making you feel worse. you should plan your plan. decide in advance what you think you will be able to do, and be comfortable doing.ABove all else, it's important to set limits and not cross them or you risk feeling negative about the whole thing, and have you self esteem go down even more.<BR>Lulu you need to be positive and believe in your choices. If you choose to work on your marriage is because you felt it was worth. You are part of that marriage so you're worth too.<BR>The way you are feeling right now, cant be helping all that much to strenghten your marriage or yourself. You need help to feel better. Maybe even your H can help if you can talk to him about some of what you're feeling.<BR>I asked my H for help in rebuilding my self-confidence. I explained what I was feeling and why. I told him that he was the person that could help me with this and asked him to think about it. He came up with pretty good ways to help me,to make me feel important again, some funny too (thank God our sense of humour never went!). <BR>Whatever you do rememeber he is staying because he choose too, and no, he's not giving up anything and specially not his chance to be "happy for the first time on his life" the fantasy might have felt like it, but it wasn't real and I'm sure he must have realised that by now.<BR>If you need someone to talk you can always e-mail me at lwnd@hotmail.com. <P><BR>Going to make it, you will. DOn't worry if sometimes you get mixed feeling. it is normal. Things will improve with time.<BR>Stress in any form is never beneficial either for the individual or the relationship and I learned financial stress added to health concerns it extremely damaging. But now we have a better understanding of the relationship, so we'll be fine.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Lulu, I feel like we're twins. Again, I feel just like you do. I've told him several times that he chose us because it was right and for the kids. I'm just part of the package, a piece of furniture.<P>If you have time, read my thread, I feel like I keep getting in my own way because of these feelings.<P>Though never really heavy, I too lost a lot of weight and have stuck to weight lifting long before I knew about his EMA. I am at the top of my game, but now I'm pregnant and gaining weight again. Oh well...