Well, thank you all again for the support. I feel better today but I'm just so frustrated. Last night, my son went to bed crying because he got nothing from his dad for Valentine's day.<P>RMA, I am really grateful for your input. Sometimes it's hard to listen to radically different input, but usually it's those posts that provoke additional levels of thinking. I had to process it and I did. I think I will develop a modified game plan as a consequence. I really appreciate your advice and counsel and admire what you've done as well. Thank you so much. I'd love to share e-mails with you too, if you're game.<P>Limerick, I always appreciate your kind words. I don't know whether I should be admired for my persistence over this duration, or considered a fool. My self assessment wavers between the two, but is leaning more towards fool right now. I need to break out and do something different. RMA is right about that - whatever I've done has not worked. I am so happy that you are building a life with a good man and that you shared that. It gives me hope.<BR>

Distressed,<P>You are NOT a fool..if you are, then the rest of us are too, and I promise you that we aren't. <P>We have all tried to stand by our S's, because we see their current actions and behavior as aberrations to what we consider their norm, based on the many years we have lived with our S's.<P>Now comes this qusetion: Is the current behavior a prolonged aberration or some new definition of the norm for our S's???? This is what should guide your future decision making.<P>Please do feel free to e-mail me:<P>dworl@hotmail.com<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is the current behavior a prolonged aberration or some new definition of the norm for our S's???? This is what should guide your future decision making.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is the $64 question, and unfortunately, there is no way to figure out the answer.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, I think that would be more plausible with a H who was running after us, declaring his love for us, begging our forgiveness and telling us what a big mistake they made. Neither of us have that at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Unfortunately, I don't any of us, even those of us in "recovery" are experiencing this. I finally heard the last remark, that he made a big, stupid mistake.<P>H is a man of action, but now he is in wait and see mode. He chose his family, but we are all waiting for "healing"?<P>For some unknowable reason, his relationship to his children (5 and 2) is now good, where it was almost nonexistent before. Maybe coming so close to abandoning them opened his eyes to how wonderful they are. But I still feel like a spectator in this show called my family.<P>Not sure any of this helped, but people do change for better and worse, and decisions are faced at every stage of the relationship. I'm faced now with staying in this marriage for the kids (and the one on the way - tell you what not to do right now) even if I never feel loved. It's sad.

Nellie,<P>Yes, that is the big question! And, we won't know the real answer until later...much later. <P>But, for me, I have to base my decisions on what I THINK the answer to that question is. In other words, I would do one thing if I think this is a prolonged aberration (Keep trying to hang in there) and another thing if I think this is the new norm for my H (Move on the divorce).<P>By the way...I think this is the new norm for my H.......<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Distressed,<P>I can feel your anquish at the situation. It's got to be incredibly frustrating to wait and wait and wait...not knowing.<P>I have a few thoughts for you though. We who are trying to bring our spouse back to the marriage have God on our side. It is not only the right thing to do it is the righteous thing to do. The entire word of God is about reconciliation, from the old testament with God making a covenant with Abraham, (Genesis 15-17) to Moses leading bringing God's people out of Egypt (bondage) (Exodus 6-12)and giving them the Law, right through to Jesus who was the covenant sacrifice and the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 27-28).<P>In Malachi, the last book of the old testament we read "'I hate divorce,' says the Lord God of Israel...so guard yourself in spirit and do no break faith."<P>He is calling His people to a higher level of trust and faithfulness than we can humanly comprehend, but is possible with the help of the Holy Spirit.<P>Personally, I am convinced that I will never file for divorce, nor will I willingly sign a divorce. As long as my W rides the fence, (granted mine is only a few months, not a year and half, check back with me :-) )then I will remain hopeful. Paul said to the Corinthians (2 Cor 4:16-18) "Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."<P>In the face of my W's cold demeanor it is very difficult to think about what is NOT seen, but that is where my faith is, not in what is seen but what is not seen, the work the Lord is doing in both of us.<P>On another note, Jesus told the Pharisees (Mat 19: 8&9)that "Moses PERMITTED (emphasis mine) you to divorce your wives because YOUR HEARTS WERE HARD (me again). But it was not this way in the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."<P>What he is saying is that we can divorce, but it is not because of what the other did, but because of our own path of unforgiveness. He gives us the okay to remarry IF there has been marital unfaithfulness. (by the way, some biblical teachers understand that the real interpetation has nothing to do with adultery but in fact an incestual marriage.) The point is still good regardless. Divorce was never endorsed or encouraged, but in fact we believers are called to a path of forgiveness. "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" Mat 5:46<BR>"But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Mat 6:15<P>I am realizing that I need to pray for my W that she forgives me, not for me, but for herself. For if she chooses the path of a hard heart, she is the one who will be hurt, more than I.<P>Now that I've been so preachy to you, d:-) Let me say on a human level, I wonder what is the attraction to the OW, if there even is one. I wonder if he isn't dealing with guilt or shame. I know myself I have struggled with my own forgivness. I know God has forgiven me, but allowing myself to forgive myself, that's another matter. I seem to think that I can forgive myself when my W forgives me. The truth is that I need to forgive myself whether or not she ever does. Have you specifically let him know that you DO forgive him.<P>I would encourage you to hang in there, let the spirit lead you, use this time to draw close to Him and He will honor your faithfulness. Even if the end is not your choosing, you can stand before your H and God with the confidence that you did the right thing.<P>God bless you and us all.<P><P>------------------<BR>Fear God and you will have nothing else to fear<P>Hosea 3