Topic Withdrawn.<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited February 20, 2000).]

Arik,<P>first off thanks for your candid honesty in your feelings..<P>A couple of questions...<P>What if the shoe were on the other foot?<P>Would you be ok with Nicole being in love with another man?<P><BR>Would you be ok with her having an intimate relationship with someone she slept with, and now they are only friends?<P>Would you believe her if she told you they weren't sleeping together anymore?<BR>I do believe you when you say that you aren't sleeping with her.<P>How do you expect to have emotional intimacy with Nicole when you give tose same feelings to someone else?<P>Do you value your wedding vows?<P>Do you have any idea of the disrespcet shown to Nicole by continueing contact with OW?<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have always held that if I can not feel that our marriage will be "okay" again that I will not commit fully. Nicole has in turn, held that if I do not commit fully that our marriage will not be "okay" ever again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the paradox of the dilema that faces us.<BR>Who is right?<BR>I believe both points are right, however if a marriage is to be successful, the later opinion needs to prevail.<P>I'm full of questions aren't I?<P>Anyhow, Think this through, and remember you can't have your cake and eat it forever...you will have to choose less the choice be made for you.<P>Take care,<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Dear Arik,<BR> I really never post anymore, but I feel the need to reply to you.<BR> My husband and I have been in recovery for about 18 months and are doing great.<BR> We found all the things we had lost over the years and now enjoy a closer more loving and passionate relationship than ever before.<BR> Getting over his affair is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with and to be honest I still have a bad day every once in awhile.<BR> The only way we were able to get past this was for him to be completely honest with me and also me with him.<BR> If he had continued any contact at all with her I would not be able to be with him, despite my love for him.<BR> There is no possible way for you to fully give your love back to your wife if you continue to think you love the OW and you won't stop having those feelings until you stop having contact with her.<BR> I have read alot of posts by both you and your wife and I believe you can make it, but first you have got to understand the threat she feels and do everything in your power to help her believe in you and your love.<BR> She has forgiven you for all that you have done and now is the time to focus on forgiving yourself, realizing the mistake you made and working on making your marriage a safe and happy place for everyone involved.

Since you've asked, yes, I think in this regard, you do have to disregard all of your feelings toward the OW. In the past, you disregarded Nicole's feelings and proceeded to do what YOU wanted. Now the pendulum has to swing the other way for a while. Eventually you may be able to meet in the middle, but if you really want to save your marriage, now is not the time to expect compromises. <P>About the willingness to commit (sorry, I don't know how to do the quote thing) - it sounds as tho you are keeping a safety net under you. You don't want to fully commit to your marriage unless you have a guarantee of success. If it doesn't work, at least you wouldn't have cut off all your ties with the OW and that door may still be open. Maybe this is an unfair accusation, but that's what I'm thinking as I read your post. <P>Whichever way you go, your commitment to make it work has to be 100% - otherwise its not really a commitment at all - its hedging your bets. <P>Sorry if this sounds hard-hearted.<P>

Arik,<P>How long do you think your wife can continue to love you while you continue contact and re-expose those wounds over and over again to the salt? <P>I pray you make a choice, and the right choice, as difficult and painful as it will be, soon. <P>I also suggest you do a search and find all of guard's posts. May give you an idea of where you are headed. <P>Your wife has incredible faith and strength. But you are asking for the impossible.<P>TNT

Arik,<P>Yeh... d@mn it we still love you... <BR>No matter what... <P>Now to continue the "veteran's" thread...<P>You've been around the forum for a relatively long time...<P>You know more than just the jist of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A>... I most certainly don't have to lecture about it to you... You've heard it all.<P>Now.. the realization...<BR>Nicole is nearing the end of her tolerance of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... It happens to us all (I to am a betrayed... and I too am nearing the end of my time in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>.) Does that make me "bad"... or Nicole "bad"... <B>NO</B>.<P>Our mental and emotional tolerance just gets exhausted... Bill can attest to that.<P>Your time is running short...<BR>Nicole <B>will</B> move into <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... and it's only you that can change it. In time, the forum members that keep on rooting people to continueon with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... just can't (and won't) do it forever...<P>I pray you completely give up the OW(I won't use her name anymore.) If you don't... I give Nicole at most one more month(maybe less)... and either she will move out... or you will have to move out... but it will come to a head(an ugly one at that.)<P>It's black or white time...<BR>It's decision time...<BR>You've learn a lot from here... you say you don't agree with some of it...<BR>...but it doesn't matter...<BR>The time to choose is <B>soon</B>...<P>You know which way 100% of the people here want you go... It won't kill you....<P>If you don't... the results are more than questionable.<P>My love to you Arik... honestly... I do love you guy...<P> <P>Jim

Arik, <BR>I will plead with you...you have a woman who love you dearly, and wants to have the kind of relationship that will last a lifetime...You MUST give her and yourself the chance...<BR>please....<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> This may be a really dumb thing to expect, considering that I did in fact sleep with her, and still have a strong emotional tie. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, it's a really dumb thing to expect. You proved that you can't be trusted and now you are expecting (even demanding) to be trusted. No... you've already proved you can't be trusted with Chrissie. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I have always held that if I can not feel that our marriage will be "okay" again that I will not commit fully. Nicole has in turn, held that if I do not commit fully that our marriage will not be "okay" ever again. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is kind of like saying you refuse to go to a job interview unless you are guarantee to get the job. <P>It don't work that way.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> There must be common ground...in a place we can both feel safe. I do indeed admit to you all, and I have to Nicole that , yes I do love this OW. I also love Nicole. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The only way you will both feel safe is to stop letting the OW deposit Love Units in your Love Bank. It will take some time for you to build back the trust that was destroyed. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> As always I expect to get your true and honest opinions on this matter so please, spare no stones in your replies. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've gave it to you as straight and honest as I know how. <P>Is this what you want to hear, or do you want me to lie to you and make you happy?<P>Keo<P><BR>P.S. My vows said "forsaking <B> ALL </B>others" <p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited February 18, 2000).]

Arik-<BR> "This may be a really dumb<BR> thing to expect, considering that I did in fact sleep with her, and still<BR> have a strong emotional tie."<P>Boy, if that isn't a glaring statement of a problem waiting to happen (AGAIN!!) what is?<P>I'm sorry but even if it is JUST a friendship thing now it has got to end. More than one affair grieved over on this site was just an emotional affair. There should never and I repeat NEVER be such a close relationship between two people of opposite sex. Can some people handle it? sure, you? I really don't think so, especially not with Chrissie. You are not in a position to be an advisor to her, I know that is not what you want to hear but my friend that is the cold hard fact.<P> "I feel like this in<BR> itself would be forcing me to focus on her all the more, because then<BR> I am treating her differently than everyone else that I deal with."<P>Well, didn't you already treat her differently? or do you sleep with everyone you have to deal with? Again I apologize not for what I'm I say but I do feel badly that you just aren't seeing what is going on.<P> "I hope that we can come to a place<BR> where we can both be comfortable."<P>Have your cake and eat it too? What is up with that?<P> "Nicole has in turn,<BR> held that if I do not commit fully that our marriage will not be "okay"<BR> ever again."<P>Does the phrase -Keep yourself only for her as long as you both shall live-mean anything? Maybe both of you were at fault for what happened but she is willing to forgive and reinstate those vows, either you are or you aren't you cannot ride the fence on this one. <BR>I believe the wedding vows also say the two shall be as one flesh, not the three shall be as one, there is no room in an intimate relationship for a third flesh. A marriage is based on trust and committment, you have shown by your actions she can't count on either, will you have to work hard, maybe harder?<P> "Does this<BR> all mean that I am not worth the trouble?" Are you saying "she, your wife" is not worth the trouble for you?<P> "I must deny my feelings and<BR> comfort zone."<BR> "Do we have<BR> to completely disregard our own feelings, to save those of someone<BR> else?"<BR>Welcome to the world of loving someone unconditionally, when you WANT to do whatever it takes even if it is painful and you don't get what YOU want, it is called unselfishness, you know, putting someone else's needs before your own.<P><BR>As far as the compassion thing goes, if you have the power to stop something that is hurting someone you love and don't do it that is not compassion. You don't want to hurt either of them but you are actually just hurting both worse by stringing them both along for your own selfish needs. Don't kid yourself into thinking Chrissie is satisfied with the way things are, eventually someone will have to fall out of this triangle and most likely all of you will be the losers.<P>Either grow up, quit being a spineless jellyfish and make a decision whatever it may be but quit playing the I love them both game because when the dust settles the one thing that will be clear is that the only person you truly love is yourself.<P>I am sorry if the stones hurt I did try to at least hurl just the smooth ones.

Arik, trust is something you build not something you test over and over again, your wife loves you and is willing to work on your marriage, give her a fair shot, regina

You want my real opinion Arik? I think you may be consciously or unconsciously trying to get Nicole to throw you out, so in your own mind you don't have to be the bad guy that leaves your family. There I said it, now I'm ducking.<P>Now in regard to your post. What you are trying to negotiate is an emotionally "open" marriage.<P>Remember your vows? If they were traditional they may have included the phrase: DO YOU TAKE NICOLE....FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE...ect...AND FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, CLEAVE ONLY UNTO HER FOR AS LONG AS YOU BOTH SHALL LIVE?<P>Are you honoring your vows?<P>Right now, when the going gets tough, it doesn't look like commitment becomes you, Arik. Commitment is tough. Sometimes it doesn't feel too good. But a person that honors their commitments finds a way. And a dynamic person not only finds a way, but forges a way that makes the relationship stronger and authentic than before. <P>Is it easy? No. Does it hurt? Yeah, maybe more so than bailing. Is it worth it? I guess that depends what you value, and how much you value commitment.<P>So you have to completely disregard your feelings? I'd counter you need to work toward changing your feelings...which begins with changing your stubborn bullheaded mindset. <P>Right now it is obvious the only "feelings" you value are Arik's. At the very least, Arik is Arik's highest priority.<P>I was going to recommend searching Guard's post, but my dear friend TnT beat me too it. He threw away everything he had with both hands. Although his wife hasn't acted on anything, she now has the attention of another man and he can't stand it. He has lost the respect of his children and he wants it back. He left his home (7X) and now he wants back in. He hit bottom and he has nothing. Now he sees what he threw away and time will tell if he can recover his losses. <P>You are in the process of throwing it all away. I think you may be too stubborn and too bullheaded to stop. We may be wasting our words on you...but we still care. And there is still time, Arik. But at this point, it has got to start with you.<P>You hold your future. You may be the type of person that has to hit bottom. Maybe you can't learn from those who have gone before. Maybe you are too stubborn and too bullheaded to listen and learn. Maybe you are just too selfish to really love another as much if not more than yourself.<P>But by chance if you can set aside your subbornness and learn from others, if you can sacrifice, if you can respect and honor another and if you can take determine your own ACTIONS instead of being dictated to by your FEELINGS, then please listen to what these fine people are telling you and please search Guard.<P>It is getting late, but Arik, you can turn this freight train around. Only you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Arik,<P>I've not really read a lot of yours and Nicole's story, and never posted to you before.<P>You, my friend, do not need to hear what everyone has said prior to me. You KNOW it already. You knew in your heart of hearts the types of responses you were going to get, because you know from being here, where we are all at.<P>I must admit to a romantic notion of 'everyone living happily ever after', and maybe in that particular fairytale, you and OW could have been friends, and had a relationship where you discussed each other's marriages and lives etc etc etc.<P>BUT, THAT IS THE FAIRYTALE. And that is what fairytales are all about. They make us feel happy while we are reading them, but then we go back to reality.<P>YOUR REALITY is Nicole, or it should be, but if you decide that your reality is OW, you must end living in the fairytale. You must make one or the other your reality. You can't have both. That is cruel to everyone concerned, especially your wife.<P>Please don't think I'm coming down on you like a tonne of bricks, I would like to believe in fairytales. I have always been naive/romantic when it comes to male/female relationships, but have found that for the most part - someone always wants more than the other (ie you or OW) and it never works out. It is very few people that remain friends with an -ex, for that reason.<P>That is the beauty of marriage. For the most part we choose to spend our lives with someone that appeals to most of what we want/need in a partner, and you ride out the good and bad times with that partner. Nicole has ridden out the worst time of her life with you, and from what I've read, has forgiven you, and is willing to work on a new and better marriage for the both of you.<P>Is the OW someone you can depend upon to ride out the tough times with you in the future? Nicole has proven herself, do you really know the OW in the same way?<P>I get the feeling you may think that you love both the OW and Nicole, and I'm sure it is possible to be in love with two people at the same time, however, it would be a very liberal society that allowed you to have two women at once. Therein lies your problem. You can't have two women at once. One or the other will not stand for it. The time will come for you, when you will end up with neither of them, if you don't arrive at some sort of decision.<P>I hope I'm not giving you the impression that I know everything, and I know your feelings, because at the end of the day, what the hell do I know ???<P>All I do know for sure, is that if my H ever decides he wants to try and work on our marriage, I couldn't take the strain of having ow still in the picture. After what I have gone through, and am still going through, I am just not strong enough to have her thrown in my face....<P>I hope you make the right decision, and only you can make it. I feel for you, because the affair has to have put you through hell, and now you are going through this too.<P>But just think, think about what you want, what you need, and think about Nicole.<P>I wish you all the best<P>Jo<P>

It's kind of like deja vu, I think you've heard all of what's been said before, Arik, but you don't agree with the basic principles? <P>You had an affair, Nicole suffered and still suffers immensely from this. She is asking that you respect her enough to completely cut off contact with what has hurt your marriage the most (OW), but you find this unfair. To me it seems as if you just don't quite understand the depth of pain that Nicole has suffered, and have no clue as to how keeping the OW in the equation will be any detriment to your marriage. How can it not? I really believe deep down you're minimizing the affair to a manageable level, maybe to keep your own guilt at bay? To keep from really feeling the depth of guilt, you brush it off and trivialize the no-contact issue? Keep it light, act "as if" it was not a big deal? Maybe. <P>Connor

Arik,<BR>You want it, we'll give it to you. I think you already know what most of us are gonna say, because you know what you "should" do.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have indeed, as she has said in her last post, kept the communication lines open with Chrissie. I have been talking about her marriage, and our marriage.[Quote]Why not speak with your Wife about your marriage? You should not be discussing your relationship with others of the opposite sex <B>ESPECIALLY</B> the person you had an affair with! DUH!<P>[Quote]I have given her some advice on how to get her H to open up and talk with her. She in turn has given me some things to think about in the way I treat Nicole.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why is her marriage any concern to you and vice versa? [sarcasm]You don't need spouses, you already know how to communicate with each other.[/sarcasm]<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do not always agree with the principals that are layed out in this site.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You and every other person who has betrayed because the results & gratification are not immediate. These principles take time to work, but the end results are far more satisfying than the <B>quicker picker upper</B>.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I want Nicole's and my focus to be "us" not what goes on at work and with Chrissie's life and with my communication with Chrissie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>But <B>anything</B>you do with the ow <B>is</B> part of Nicoles life!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I guess what I want is to be able to have this friendship that Nicole disagrees with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And she has every right in the book to disagree with it, don't you agree?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is not my intent to destroy our relationship by this. I have been asked to keep the contact to strictly business related topics at work. I feel like this in itself would be forcing me to focus on her all the more, because then I am treating her differently than everyone else that I deal with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But if there is no contact, then the focus would die after a while.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have agreed to not discuss our marriage with Chrissie, in hopes that it will cause a little less friction between Nicole and I.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Mighty big of you. Pat yourself on the back Arik.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Nicole wants me to cut all ties and communication, and I refuse to drop all contact. I hope that we can come to a place where we can both be comfortable. I'm not sure that this will be possible.[Quote]<BR>If you continue contact with the ow, then I'm sure it will not be possible.<P>[Quote]I have always held that if I can not feel that our marriage will be "okay" again that I will not commit fully. Nicole has in turn, held that if I do not commit fully that our marriage will not be "okay" ever again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It won't be "okay" again until you commit again to it. You would settle just for <B>"okay"</B>?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It seems that either I give in to all of her demands and drop it all, or I get allowed to have this contact. There doesn't seem to be any give and take.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ANd there should NOT be any give & take in this situation.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I want there to be a place where we can meet in the middle. I do not agree that I must do everything in the world to win her back, and I do not expect her to be the only one responsible for the rebuilding of our marriage. There must be common ground...in a place we can both feel safe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ANYTHING involving the ow is a losing proposition for Nicole. She will NEVER feel safe as long as you live in the same town as the ow, let alone work with her & have daily contact.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do indeed admit to you all, and I have to Nicole that , yes I do love this OW.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And it's always gonna be there as long as you are in ANY contact with her.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Am I just being an insensitive idiot? Is it possible that I have no compassion and concern for the mother of my children?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Arik, I'm really tempted to say "yes, you are an idiot" but I can't. Having read so much, been here far too long & knowing what goes on in an affair, you are pretty "typical." This "love" you have for the ow is not "special" or "different" than many, many others have felt. It is the effects of being illicit. You're giddy and it is affecting your judgement.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Does this all mean that I am not worth the trouble?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Absolutely not. Nicole would not have married you in the first place if she thought that.<P>Arik, you have the chance to have the marriage that all marriages should be. You are choosing NOT to take it because you feel you are in love with someone else. You say you don't wish to hurt Nicole or the ow. Understandable. But you are choosing to hurt your Wife. She is the one you made some vows with. You made promises to her. Now you want to reneg on all of them because, "Damnit, I want to feel good <B>NOW</B> & I do not care what promises I have made in the past."<P>Love means giving. Giving yourself to the other person & expecting nothing in return. Hopefully that love is reciprocated & we get something back. If it doesn't happen, then we "fall" out of love. But also, if we do not give our love to only one person (spouse), it gets spread too thin (spouse & ow) & we will lose it for one of them (spouse).<P>You know pretty much what you need to do Arik. It's not what "feels good" and not what you "want" to do. But you know it is right.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Arik, you may not like what I'm about to say, but please listen anyway.<P>You are in a similar situation my husband was in a year ago, except he kept his affair with a married woman who was also having marital problems a secret. Here's what you can expect from your insensitive behavior:<P>1) Separation. Husband living with a friend in a dumpy, unclean house, eating frozen burritos for dinner every night. Being late for work because devoted wife was not there to wake him up.<P>2) Divorce papers served. <B>Humongous</B> attorneys fees. Ours just to initiate a divorce and one trip to the courthouse for a hearing was over $8,000. <P>3) Seeing your children every other weekend and wed. night. Seeing the pain in your children's eyes when you are with them. The pain of knowing that you are giving your children a legacy of divorce, and pain. <P>4) Destroying another man's life. Your OW's husband will not be happy with you at all. You may even get named in a lawsuit as co-respondent. My husband was, the OW's husband filed a lawsuit against him for destroying his marriage. Even more attorneys fees needed here. <P>5) The humilation of a court battle. Expect to lose everything. Your house, your income, your wife - forever. Start budgeting now on how you will pay for your new place as well as pay for all the expenses at your former home, because it will be expensive. Court proceedings can go on for years, during which time you will be paying for both residences. Ask my H about the $1,000 per month in alimony and $800 per month in child support he had to pay as well as half of all other bills. Made him poor in a hurry. Gee, life with that OW didn't look so great after all.<P>6) Disgust felt towards you from your immediate family, once the truth is made known to them. <P>7) The despair you will feel when you realize too late that you have made a <B>HORRENDOUS</B> mistake. <P>In summary, it is not worth it. Please reevaluation what you are doing. Go read Proverbs 6:23-35, it will give you more insight as to the consequences of adultery. To count a marriage promise as something that can be renigged on is equivalent to saying all of Gods promises to us are conditioned on our performance. It’s devaluing the price Jesus paid at the cross. You made a vow before God when you married Nicole - that vow included "<B>FORSAKING ALL OTHERS</B>. Respect that vow. Someday you will be so glad you did. <BR>

I will try to be short and succinct here, so much has already been suggested... <P>I won't tell you to do the 'right' thing... who the heck knows what the 'right' thing is anyways? I don't believe in saving a marriage for the marriages sake.... (now I'm the one ducking) BUT and this is a BIG BUT...<P>If you do want to save your marriage, you are going to have to understand the there are some sacrifices you will have to make... There is a cost for everything... EVERYTHING in life... sometimes yoiu have to decide which you prefer, and I think that you have to make a decision. Before it is made for you. You know that Nicole has been incredibly patient... (yes, the focus is on her for now) and you also know how much your actions are causing her pain... and it's not like it's an unreasonable pain, either.<P>So (and I do want you to answer this) with the understanding that you CAN have your cake and eat it too, (but that you will have to decide on ONE cake) which cake do you wish to have? <P>Put your desires in the proper light, my friend. Understand that we all have desires and that sometimes they are conflicting and sometimes we have to overcome some of our wants, denying them so that we may satisfy others... <P>The nature of your current relationship with OW is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is hurting your wife. There is a limit to how much a person can take. I don't know what the limit is for Nicole, but I am willing to bet that you are fast approaching it. <P>IF you want to save your marriage, I think you know what's required. There's no sense *****in about it... anymore than there would be sense in going to McDonalds and saying that your only willing to spend a dime on a Big Mac. <P>Anyhoo, not as short as to the point as I hoped, but now I gotta go...<P>Deut

Arik,<P>I will come at this from a totally different perspective....from the place of the OW. You need to let her go. Once you cross the boundaries of friendship, you cannot go back. Trust me....I've tried the "let's just be friends thing" when I was trying to end my affair but even if it hasn't happened yet, one or both of you will allow those "more than friendship" feelings to creep back in. If Chrissie needs to talk to someone about her own marriage, tell her to seek counsel. You should be totally considerate of your wife's needs. It is not unreasonable AT ALL for her to ask you to cease contact with the OW....you should respect that. <P>You are being extremely selfish and self-centered wanting to have both. You need to let one of them go and it sounds like you have a winner in Nicole. As everyone has said to me "I apologize for being harsh" but as an (x)OW, you are not being fair to anyone except yourself.

<BR>Arik,<BR>I have not had read or posted here much since November, due largely to the fact that what transpires over and over again on the board brings back painful memories and thoughts that I prefer not to have. But reading here, today, I find the SAME "2soulmates" who was posting 4 months ago. You may have changed your name, but you still smell the same. It has been a year (last week-end) since I discovered my H's infidelity. One of the things I said to him then was that "If he did not commit fully that our marriage would not be "okay" ever again." Ever heard of self-fullfilling prophacy? It took a while, but we are commited fully. We have come a longggggggggggg way. The first thing that HAD to be done, for us to move forward in our marriage, was for contact with the OW to be discontinued. My H, too, wanted to stay her friend and it took him roughly 4 months to completely discontinue verbal contact with her. We were lucky in that she lived in Hawaii and also, eventually, agreed that no contact was the best solution. We are now closer, more passionate, more affectionate, more commmunicative, more everything, than either one of us thought possible again, but it has not been easy. There have been set-backs and they ALL have been related to the OW. She called in December with computer problems. (He had given her the computer) I was immediately sent back into time, fearing that communication would start up between them only to escalate to a new dependency. It took a week to settle down my emotions enough to show affection and love for him again. A week of our lives that would not have existed if she had not called. Her birthday was in Jan., two days before my own! He was depressed for a week because he could not call and at least see "how she was doing" to "give her the common thoughtfulness" he would give "any friend". He doesn't even recognize his own mother's birthday most of the time, for God's sake.<BR>Two weeks after the 'birthday" week, he made copies of her pictures that he "found" on a disk. I found the evidence and the conflict that resulted nearly set us back to day one of post discovery. He almost "moved out" because he "couldn't have his secret pictures of her." His point being "He wasn't seeing her anymore, and "we" were doing good, so he could not see anything wrong with having a few pictures." One of which she was wearing his flight coat with nothing on under it. He was "thinking with his little brain, the one between his legs." and Arik, so are you. A few days later, he happened to be flipping channels and caught the tailend of a Jerry Springer show. Now he, nor I make it a habit of watching Jerry Springer, but for some reason he watched the conclusion of the show. JS said something to the affect...."If you have chosen to have a committed, loving relationship, then decisions, all decisions, should be based on what is best for the relationship. To make decisions to serve selfish needs, to disregard the thoughts and feelings of your chosen partner in pursuit of personal gain is more than counter-productive to the survival of the relationship. Why bother to be married, or have a committed relationship at all, if you are not willing to do what is necessary to make the partnership grow and prosper." For some reason this statement hit home with my H and he made a show of burning the pictures, deleting the files and we are once again headed down the same path with total support and love for one another. How will your wife ever fully "support" and relate to your needs if she fears that you are seeking that support from someone else, particularily someone you slept with? Get your head out of the sand and be a man. <P>I am not sorry that the stones I throw are large. Your wife is trying not to love-bust so is probably not even tossing pebbles your way. Consider yourself lucky that you are not married to someone like me, coz I would have kicked your azz out a long time ago. Everyone of the previous posts have the right advise for you. If you choose to ignore what "these experts" and others say, then why bother coming here. <BR>I pray for Nicole that all her good intentions and forgiveness have not been given in vain.<P>Pilot's wife

Reply withdrawn.<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited February 20, 2000).]

okay Arik,<P>you were just waiting for me to jump on you and kick your A$$.....weren't you ?!?!?!!!<P><BR>here is a 2 x 4.......<P><BR>you know what to do with it....<P>Dylan