I've read SAA by Harley, Torn Usunder by Carder, Private Lies by Pittman, as well as various others to find out how to be a better husband (Love Languages, How to Win Your Wife Back, If only He knew). Many of the concepts or suggestions about how to repair or recover from infidelity are similar from book to book, but many are not.<P>Harley suggests that the betrayed plan A when the betrayer has not really decided yet, where as Torn Usunder seems to suggest that you show them your pain. (I prefer Harleys method, my wife doesn't want to see me as weak). Smalley, in How to Win Your Wife Back say's that telling them of your hurt is akin to putting a boulder on the back of a butterfly. <P>I don't know? My wife has been on the fence for months, and for the most part doesn't see the pain that she has caused me as a motivater to commit. I don't really blame her, i dont want her just beacause she feels sorry for me, i want her to give us a chance without OP in her presence every workday. <P>I Love her, but I am starting to become indifferent, or just worn out over the way that we don't seem to be getting anywhere. Little by little over the last month she has gotten more affectionate, yet she still entertains the idea of a divorce, and resists opening up. Need more strength, and resolve. Will keep looking to the Lord.<P>You guys have been a tremendous inspiration to me. Just remember, there are probably ten times as many Lurkers out there than people who post.<P>Anyway, I apologise for going on, been lurking since Oct, finally decided to post. <BR>Any ideas or thoughts on the differing concepts from the standard books will be appreciated. <P>Thanks!

I know exactly the pain you are going through. After I found out about my wife's affair, I showed in many ways the pain that I was suffering. Heck I lost 30 pounds, couldn't sleep (slept on the couch). She told me it was over with him. I even called him and he said that she was telling him that she didn't want anything to do with him. But they remained co-workers. Heck I even made us counseling sessions, but she would never go. Then after 9 months, she broke down and cried. She finally went to counseling. She admitted the affair didn't end, but now it has. So, i guess showing her my pain didn't work. Trying Plan A now.......but it seems like Plan A is like begging for her. She still won't talk about her emotional needs. I guess it's the withdrawal or the affair is still on. But I believe the communication has to be the key. <BR>I do believe that separation between them has to happen before any meaningful things can happen. Just my thought.

I think your right about communication being the key.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>But I believe the communication has to be the key. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The lack of communication is the one thing that hurts me the most.<P>If a woman is talking there is hope. If she quits talking to you, then you better start doing something to get her talking again before it's too late.<P>Very few women have affairs for the sex. It's the conversation that gets a woman involved with the OM.<P>Conversation might not be this important to ALL women, but it is to me.<P>Keo

Communication is a big key in any stalemate. (Ok I'm using my husband's term now.) There is a page on this web site that describes the three modes of communication. When you are in withdrawal nothing really gets done. (withdrawal in terms of communication) We sat in this state for pretty much six months. Just beginning to make some headway. I had to make the first major move. (Although he made some more subtle moves towards opening up along the way.) When you are ready, deal with the issues in as nonthreatening a way as you can. (I wrote a letter. It gave me time to choose my words more carefully) Lay your cards out on the table. Remember to avoid lovebusters. I didn't bring up what had been done. (There's nothing really he or I can do to change that) but I did bring up some of the things I'd like to see our marriage become. As for which books are right. I've read several and taken information from all of them. Intuitively you probably know which piece of information is going to fit your situation best.

I read SAA, TA, PL, Love Languages...and I am somewhat familiar with Smalley.<P>For the most part I agree with SAA and Plan A. As for TA...no you don't want to be the Pain Channel...all pain, all the time. However, I don't think my H could have fathomed how much it hurt. He never intended to leave, (although OW was trying to talk him into it). I think part of our recovery came from his discovery of how deeply I was hurt...but yet was willing to throw all my energy toward rebuilding. I think he was impressed, maybe surprised with my level of commitment, strength and love that rose above the unbelievable torment. I did calmly tell him how it felt from time to time (months apart). For me, it was more out of honesty than wanting to punish. So my point is that although your wife may not want to see you weak, she may see you as strong if instead of wallowing in your pain you are working hard on yourself and your own role in your marriage.<P>And although you do not want her to stay because she feels "sorry" for you, why do you want her to stay? And why is she staying now?<P> <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Faith Hope Love,<P>Thanks for your response.<P>I want her to stay because I Love her.<P>She won't really say why she is still here, but I know she is concerned about our two children (4 & 7 yrs old). Her best friend, the counsuler, and her mother don't really support her in leaving. Also, the OM seems to really be dedicated to staying with his W. <BR>I think that is part of the problem. She feels rejected by him, but still hangs on to the fantasy that she missed that "once in a life time love", and wants to see if there is still a chance. Our counsuler warns me not to assume too much.<P> She has started to open up a little without my urging. Still seems angry, and frustrated with me at times. I refuse to let it get me roused up.<BR>

Stillgoing,<P>I've read these two good books. The focus of these books is on what one spouse can do alone to help improve the relationship, even when the other spouse isn't interested in helping, and they are working for me:<P>"Divorce Busting" by Michele Weiner-Davis <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/o/qid=951145425/sr=8-1/102-8433870-6302451" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/o/qid=951145425/sr=8-1/102-8433870-6302451</A> <P>"How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together" by Susan Page <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900421/qid=951145531/sr=1-1/102-8433870-6302451" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900421/qid=951145531/sr=1-1/102-8433870-6302451</A> <P>I have included links to the books on Amazon.com for your convenience.<P>I have just ordered 2 books by Dr. Harley and hope that my wife and I can use them together to rebuild our marriage.<P>Good luck!<P>

hopeful_1 is in your approximate position. Maybe you two could support each other.<P>By the way, that Susan Page book is great!<P>All the best!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited February 21, 2000).]

IMHO, <P>"When A Mate Wants Out" by Jim Conway, available at midlife.com, is one of the best besides SAA and Love Must Be Tough. <P>You have to figure out what would fit your situation WHERE IT IS at the time. They all have good points, but you have to relate them to your spouses personality, your own level of functioning, and your personal convictions.<P>lizzie<BR>whose h. says "I choose you!"<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

StillGoing - Every situation is different, though there are always some similarities. I think that's the key.<P>Harley's ideas seem to work best when the betrayer has confessed the affair. This seems to be the case with your W, so it actually looks like there's some hope for your marriage.<P>There are a number of "Harley Success Stories" on this forum, and you might want to decide to make a serious effort to apply his ideas. Don't know what kind of couples counseling you're doing now, but if you do decide to institute Plan A, you might want to consider doing phone counseling with Dr. H.<P>I say this because, if you're going to apply his methods, you probably want a counselor who believes in and understands them.<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

My H had an affair 10 months ago and it is still ongoing. Despite my efforts and willingness to keep our marriage together and my forgiveness of him when I thought they had stopped the affair, he has decided he no longer wants a marriage with me. I just ordered SAA, so I haven't read it yet. We are in what could be called a modified plan B right now. I am hoping for a reconciliation, but I am not optimistic. <P>Faith, Hope, Love: How I wish my H saw things the way your H did. I did all the right things and it still wasn't enough. All I can do is move forward.<P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com