Yesterday I posted that I was excited because my husband agreed to see our pastor with me. Well, last night he backed out. I told him I was sick of trying and I was sick of getting kicked in the teeth over and over. I told him that I was letting him go because I truly want him to be happy and he seems to be happier sleeping on the floor at his sister's than with me. <P>It hurts so bad, but I am not as strong as some of you are. I can't take it anymore! I am going to the meeting with my pastor tonight alone anyway. I know one day Bill will regret not trying, but I can't base my life on him anymore. <P>It perplexes me how he is the one who cheated on me and he is trying to make me be the bad guy. "My expectations were too high". He just loves to be the victim! I refuse to take responsibility for him leaving! It was his choice. I only wish my 6-year old daughter wasn't so hurt by it! He is her step dad and so my counselor has suggested I not let him see her due to how hurt she gets when he leaves. It's not like he is calling and trying to see her anyway. <P>I am hopeless about this marriage!!!

Dear teddy bear,<P>I feel for you. I know how hard it is to fight for a marriage when your spouse doesn't seem to care. <P>You should definately go see your pastor, even without your husband. You can certainly use the love and support. <P>I've been reading the book, "Divorce Busting " by Michele Weiner-Davis. It has alot of good advise for someone in your situation. <P>Don't give up yet, but do take a rest and consider your needs. If you play the role of "marriage saver", it lets your husband off the hook for trying himself.<P>Hang in there, and God bless.<P>click this link to the book: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/o/qid=951323284/sr=8-1/102-8433870-6302451" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/o/qid=951323284/sr=8-1/102-8433870-6302451</A> <BR>

I just ordered Divorce Busting from Amazom.com. My H wants a divorce and has already moved out and also is in a full-blown affair. I am hoping it can help, but I am not very optimistic at this point. <P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Kenneth,<P>I wish I could be as strong as you! It has only been a month and I am already out of steam. I have read 3 of the books you suggested (I couldn't find the others) over the weekend. I have been doing a lot of what they suggested already. I do agree with you though. I can't be the marriage saver. It DOES let him off the hook. He is completely confident in the fact that "he tried". Yeah right! Tried to go out with another woman and then Tried to leave after I got pregnant! <P>I know his perception of things are WAY different than mine. Friends and family have even suggested that he may be dilusional or worse. I do know he has a lot of problems and I have to wonder if I AM better off without him???<P>I love him, but I feel like I have done all I can do. It seems when I try to show love, it is a LB to him. <P>I packed the rest of his things last night and I am going to put his stuff in the garage. I can't stand looking at it anymore.

{{{{{Teddy Bear}}}}}<P>Been awhile since I've hugged a teddy bear. Divorce Busters is a good book and has a really good chapter about taking care of yourself and making yourself happy. Michele also has a website similar to this one. She even posts there alot to help out.<P>I'm kind of like you, I always set my expectations high, and always got kicked in the head. So I've learned pretty much to accept things as they are now, and do my best to Plan A w/out Love Busters.<P>You can't force someone to go to counseling w/ you and I'm not suprised he backed out. It is hard to have someone else look at you with the critcal eye until you are ready to accept that you need help. I do recommend you go alone though. A third party perspective is nice, especially when you don't have anyone else to confide in.<P>You don't have to be strong right now, you just have to survive. Look to us for support, read as much as you can, post your thoughts, fears, feeling, vents, etc to get it out of your system. The more you are here posting and reading, I've found that the more strength you get.<P>Best of luck to you, my prayers are with you.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Teddy Bear:<P>First, thank you for replying on my thread. It sounds like we're thinking a bit alike.<P>I do have contrary advice for you. If it's only been a month, it's too soon. This is an awful experience. Understand that emotions run very high early in the separation. You can't really know what you want yet. It takes more time.<P>It's very painful to deal with an affair. My husband's also began while I was pregnant. He left me with a newborn. You've just got too much going on to make such a big decision now.<P>I suggest you try to take yourself emotionally out of this for a while. It's not easy, but focus on yourself. Try not to make big decisions when you're emotional. My rule of thumb has always been this - when you feel like you want to make a major decisions with major ramifications, force yourself to wait at least one week before doing it. Then, you can trust that you weren't ruled by negative emotions when you made the decision.<P>Best of luck to you.

SD<P>Thank you so much! <P>I feel like such a big wimp! It is so hard to see my H acting like he doesn't care. He is actually screening his calls now and not answering them if it is me. I don't know why because I hardly EVER call. <P><BR>Distressed<P>Thanks for your advice! I know in my heart you are right. It is just SO hard! I think he ENJOYS playing these mind games with me. <P>To both:<P>I have decided to cut off all contact on my part. Is that wrong? I have been sending e-mail cards, cards in the mail, etc. I thought those things would feel his "love tank", but they didn't seem to help. <P>I guess I am basically saying the "I give up" and I leave it in God's hands. He can touch Bill's heart! Is that wrong of me?

Teddy Bear:<P>OK, you're going to get my full spiel now. I haven't done this in a while. This reflects my experiences from 17 months of separation, and I think I've read nearly everything and tried everything too. <P>There are two ways affairs can go at discovery. In the first type, the betrayer is remorseful for what he's done and breaks it off (or at least tries to break it off). He knows he wants to keep the marriage and does what he has to for that to happen.<P>The second type is the dreaded one. If the betrayer doesn't choose the marriage at discovery, or superficially chooses the marriage and keeps seeing the OP, you have to wait for a "natural death" to the affair. Neither you, nor the betrayer for that matter, can control when that is. The circumstances control him and you take a backseat to it.<P>Harley decribes the "in-love" feeling as overwhelming. It drives everything in the person and they make incredibly stupid decisions. They give up spouses, children, homes, money, respect, jobs and all sorts of things just for that feeling. Once this happens, we're all slaves to it.<P>So at the highest level for you, it's just a big waiting game. Harley has two plans which are discussed at length at the website. I have my own opinions about this, of course. I've lived them both for long amounts of time.<P>First, regardless of your future course of action, you have to stop all lovebusters. Read the website for details. This is a must, frankly, even if the path is divorce. It needs to become a new way of life. Regarding your situation, if you stop the lovebusters, you stop making the situation even worse.<P>Second, Harley talks about Plan A. Using this approach, in addition to killing the lovebusters, you TRY to meet your spouses emotional needs. Try as you might, during an in-love affair, they don't really let you. Still, it sets a good tone of how things could be if you ever got back together. If you know you did things wrong in the marriage, a good Plan A is really important. It may not bring your spouse back, but it shows him that you are capable of making him happy if he will let you. It leaves him with a better impression than if you end with the bad things still active from the marriage.<P>Plan A often does not do the trick. To be honest, I don't think it's because of Plan A itself. I think it's because affairs that need to die a natural death take time to die. It is highly likely that will take longer than someone is able to do an effective Plan A. Plan A gets harder and harder in the face of continued hurt and rejection from the spouse. Most people can't do it for more than a few months. And there's no point in toughing it out when lovebusting starts. Then you regress.<P>Plan B is Harley's way of getting you out of the situation while giving the affair every chance to burn itself out. In a sense, you protect your love by isolating yourself from the continuing selfish and hurtful behavior of your spouse. This worked very effectively for me and I got my strength and confidence back within a month or so. A secondary impact is it forces the lover to meet your spouses needs that you were meeting before. The thinking is that Plan B accelerates the natural death by exposing the lovers to the real world.<P>According to Harley, most affairs are dead within six months of discovery and nearly all within two years. That's why he suggests a two year window for a wait. That probably seems like an eternity to you now. It really isn't in Plan B though, that's just like divorce anyway in my opinion (except you don't date. Frankly, you wouldn't be ready for it anyway).<P>So, based on all this, I say you need to put together a plan for how to manage your waiting for the affair to die a natural death. If you can stomach a few months of Plan A, give it a shot. If you can't do it without lovebusting, take yourself to Plan B. But please study, study, study and make your decisions rationally, not emotionally. I think you should wait a MINIMUM of six months before giving up. Beyond that is really a personal choice.<P>I am so sorry to read of what's happening. It does get easier over time. Try not to forget to take care of yourself and live a good life for yourself.

What is so confusing is that it has been over with the OW since last September. The OW is not interested in him because of his lies. The relationship between them was an Emotional Affair (if I can believe him - he is a compulsive liar).<P>That's why this doesn't make sense to me. He is supposedly not even with somebody else right now. He is living with his sister and sleeping on the floor but is happy. He says he is happy because he has freedom. <P>I don't get it!!! I am not even in competition here! What is his problem??? He had a terrible childhood with an extremely controlling mother. My counselor says he might be going through some separation thing now instead of doing it at 18 like most of us do. <P>It's like he is just happy to be single or something. I think part of the problem is that he hasn't had to be alone yet. He is living with a house full of people and doesn't have time to really dwell on this like I do. <P>I have been avoiding LB's at all costs. I simply told him last night that I was going to give him what he wanted...to set him free. I don't know if that was an LB, but you know the saying "If you love something..." <P>I am sick of being the marriage saver here. He isn't even interested in going to joint counseling. His lack of effort is very heart-breaking. <P>I'm not going to go out and file divorce papers or anything, but if things don't look up by April 10th, I am re-filing my taxes as married filing single and claiming my daughter (his step-daughter) myself. <P>Any suggestions?????

I'll ask the obvious. Are you sure the affair is over? Are they in continuing contact?<P>According to Harley, they can't get over withdrawal from the affair until they're completely separated. That means he shouldn't even catch a visual glimpse of her, never mind an e-mail or phone call. Each contact sends them back to the first day.<P>Don't bring up the counseling any more or talk about your relationship. Focus on addressing all the issues he had with you and try to have fun with him. Then, just wait. I bet there's more to the story with the OW or another OW. There always seems to be when they don't want to work on it.

He works with the OW every day so I guess I can't be sure it is over. He spent all Valentine's Day night with me and did say "at least you know there isn't somebody else since I am with you on Valentine's Day". That could be his way of trying to throw me off. I do suspect there may be somebody else because I don't know that he would have the courage to leave otherwise. <P>Supposedly the OW has had a boyfriend since November. Who knows. There may be somebody he is interested in...<P>Question: He hasn't really called me for a couple of weeks. If I don't call him, there probably won't be any contact. If he does call I will be nice, but I don't feel I am in a place where I should call him anymore.<P>What should I do???????????

The first thing you need to do is stop calling me names, I mean, try to add a little levity to a crazy situation and I get branded a trouble maker!! LOL<P>You already sound like you are in a Plan B mode. Any hope of going back to a Plan A to reinforce the feelings of love in your H? It's really hard for them to come back to you, especially if you don't tell them you love them and want to work on it. I think if you want to do a Plan B you should find out if there is still contact or God forbid another OW, then send the Plan B letter.<P>We're here for you, unless you keep calling me names. <P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

I forgot to mention the fact that the counselor we were seeing was terrible and actually encouraged him to leave if that's what he wanted to do.<P>HELP!!

Well that was good advice, was he a marriage counselor? Jerk!!! Grrrr. That just Pxxxes me off. If you are looking for a new counselor, if he'll go, look for a MB counselor or a SBT (solutions based therapy from Divorce Busters). At the very least a Christian counselor. That was mine is and at least he wants my marriage to succeed if I do and is praying for us. The more the merrier.<P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

One of the fundamentals from Divorce Busting is not to pursue. I strongly agree with this one. If he's requested time and space, give it to him. When he calls, be cheerful and happy to hear from him. But I wouldn't call him, at least not regularly. If you have something you need to discuss with him regarding the kids, do so. But not just to chat. Your interactions should be free of pressure and expectations.

Best advice I can give is DONT give up, no lovebusters, and pray pray pray.<P>Find out what you are doing that annoys him. And don't do it. Find out what you don't do that annoys him. And do the opposite. NO LOVEBUSTERS<P>And, pray pray pray, and don't think that God doesn't hear your prayers, because he does, he hears every one.<P>I don't know if your husband is still in the affair, but he very well could be - at an emotional level... it seems he still has contact through work.<P>So, the EA is the hardest to acknowledge for the betrayer, because they don't believe it is a real affair. They do not see the deception. They didn't "cross' the line, so then when they do cross the line, they don't realize it is wrong. It is so unbelievably interesting how zinged out an otherwise rational person can be.<P>At one month, you are still not sure which end is up and which end is down. This MB stuff is hard, and it is still not clear at only one month. Don't be so hard on yourself, and instead get out your measuring stick and make smaller increments to measure by.<P>You have already seen hints of progress. So, hang on to those. Don't look at the setbacks. You can't judge your future by an isolated incident. You can't judge your future by how your husband is behaving at this point, because this behavior will not always be like this.<P>Do not believe that his behavior is an indication of the health of your relationship. That simply is not true. The health of your relationship is not measurable by just his behavior. Lots of factors come into play here, how long you were married, what ability do both of you have to change, how well you ride the waves of emotional tides, etc.<P>Don't you give in yet! This is simply an incident that has you furious! Don't throw away your future because of this incident!<P>HANG IN THERE FOR THE LONG HAUL<BR>TNT

SD:<BR>Just kidding about the trouble maker thing! I am still laughing when I think of that post. I can't believe it!!! <BR>Thanks for the advice. It seems that whenever I show love, it makes him mad or he ignores it. He actually told me (after asking him if my actions made him uncomfortable) "Well, you don't see me doing those things for you do you?" He TRIES to hurt me. Why? I don't know. He is the one who had the Emotional Affair and he is also the one who left for no apparent reason. I can't figure him out! It's too emotionally draining to try I guess.<P>Distressed:<P>Thanks for the advice. I HAVE been pursuing him! I now know I must stop. I am going to try to find that book tonight. At least he knows I do love him and that I did try to show him. I say the ball is in his court now! I will be nice when he calls (if he calls), but will not call him. I will make sure that everything I do is positive from now on! I have already told him that I am giving him his way and letting go, so there won't be a need to do that LB again! I am just going to be me. <P>Why am I so sad though???? I almost wish I could hate him so I wasn't sad.

Ever had one of those days when the tears won't stop coming out? I am having one today. <P>What's worse is that I teach high school. These kids have a special instinct when it comes to recognizing that their teacher is having a bad day. <P>Any ideas on getting strong? I need a plan or something!!

You need to get the DB book if you can. You are kind of stuck between Plan A and Plan B and need a new approach. DB has a 180 plan that sounds like something you could use. Basically do the opposite of what he expects. he expects pursuit, back off, he expects cards, send none, he expects phone calls, none if possible. Be pleasant and positive if you see him, but do the exact opposite of what he expects. It might get him thinking a bit. Lord knows, that what we all need sometimes.

Thanks for the advice everyone! I feel like I am 26 going on 90! This is so draining! Everybody keeps telling me I look tired and sick. Well, I can't sleep so I guess that's why. I have also lost 20 lbs in 1 month. It makes me happy and makes me feel better, but I know it is for the wrong reasons. <P>You guys are all great! Thanks for listening!! Finding this site was a blessing!