I had a conversation with my W again last night. W is determined that one of us is going to move out. I have until she gets a job before anything is going to happen. She is a very determined person and when she says she's going to do something, she does it. I don't have much hope that we won't separate.<P>She has said a few interesting things. She said that I don't have to tell everyone (friends, coworkers) what's going on. Why would she care unless she's not thinking of this as a permanent situation? She's made statements like,"If we ever get back together..." and "maybe we'll have a family night once a month, just to see."<P>She feels she needs time away to think and she can't do it with me in the house. I know you're all going to say "STAY!". I'll do my best. But what do you make of those other comments? Please don't just tell me what I want to hear. What do you *really* think of those comments? This is week 4 since OM left the country.<P>PS Thanks to those of you who prayed for me yesterday. I think last night's conversation was a direct result of those prayers.

Several of the indications you are getting are positive. Know from experience. Get counseling to help keep your perspective. Don't worry about the lower, 30's retired, plenty time to work out. He sound sufficiently self centered to quickly lose interest now that he has his conquest. The big question for you to answer is "Do you want your wife back?" Carefully consider this.

I meant to say "loser" not "lower" - fat fingers

What was your dialog in the coversation?<P>You are right, you probably can not stop her, but who knows what can happen until she has everything in order?<P>It is possible that if you left she might miss you, your finances or your help with the kids. Even if you ultimately wanted to me more involved, you might need to stand back and let her do it "all" for a while.<P>I still think you should stay put. Even if it made her angry, she would have to see it as a strong stand.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Hopeful,<P> Yes, I say STAY, it's her decision, let her leave. My take (for what it's worth!) is she wants to separate to be with OM and wants you as a safetynet (probably not totally convinced it can work with OM)..... hang in there Hopeful, I think if she leaves reality will slap her in the face quickly....LU<P>Ps. Oh ,one other thing, if YOU leave she still has the house ,the kids, it might take longer for reality to set in....<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited February 23, 2000).]

FHL,<P>The dialog was basically, "I can't live with you anymore. You had 10 years to make the changes in yourself. I told you that someday I was going to snap and now I have and It's too late. I won't put myself back in a position to be hurt. I'm tired of feeling alone and lonely. I don't know if I'm going to be able to survive on my own but maybe I'll have a chance of finding happiness." These are paraphrased quotes. She also divided up the house into what she wants and what I can have. But she kept throwing in these statements about "if we get back together."<P>However, up until the last two days she has been sleeping *way* over on her side of the bed. The last two nights when I got into bed she rolled over and moved her leg over to touch mine (I was thrilled, of course). Was she asleep? I don't know. Is she missing someone to sleep close to? I sure hope so. She talks to me more frequently and with less anger (generally, she still has her moments.) I can't tell if this is progress or if she just cares less and less and doesn't waist the effort to be angry. (*sigh*)<P>I still have a hard time not trying to convince her that the marriage building stuff will work for us. I have to work on keeping my mouth shut about that.<P>She also announce that she is going to see a counselor for herself. I snooped around and found the counselor's phone number. I called her and asked about her philosophy toward marriage. She said she's been happily married for something like 13 years. She also said she helps people without "taking sides." I take that to mean that she will take your $80 per hour to ask you if you really think this is right for you [separation]. You say yes. And she says, "Alright then, as long as your sure. Thanks for the money, see ya later."<P>Anyway, I'm just venting my feelings. Thanks for your input.

I really meant what was YOUR role in the conversation.<P>Right now is she operating under the assumption that you will leave?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

<BR>Don't leave the house. The family courts are very biased against men, and any man who leaves the house has effectively conceded custody to his wife. That means a huge chunk of your paycheck (usually more than is really needed) will go towards child support, and she can use the excess to subsidize a new boyfriend.<P>Let her move out if she wants some space. If she does, your odds of getting custody of the kids improves to as much as 50/50.<P>Oh, do I sound cynical today! <P>Anyhow, it sounds like she's not sure of what she wants. The fact that she's seeing a counselor is good insofar as it shows a possible desire to save the marriage, but if the counselor is bad it could do more harm than good.<P>Bystander

FHL,<P>My role was to listen. Acknowledge her feelings. I also told her that I did not want the kids to feel that *I* abandonded them. And that I could not give up my prayer time everynight with the kids and my drive to school with my son. Her answer to anything that *I* want is, "Well, you should have thought of that a long time ago." If she leaves she wants to take the kids during the week and I would have them on the weekends. She says I get the better deal.

<BR>Sorry to beat the cynical drum here, but the way the laws are usually written, whichever parent has the kid more than 50% of the time is the "custodial" parent. I'd translate this to mean she wants to cash in on a child support windfall. If getting the kids only on the weekend is such a "better deal," tell her that you love her so much that you want HER to have the better deal - and you keep the kids during the week (i.e., you get custody of them, NOT her). Have you looked into the "income shares" laws in your state? You could be shipping her as much as half of your paycheck - and that's POST-tax income to you, and (get this) tax-free income to her.<P>I hate to put it bluntly, but do whatever it takes to get custody of the kids. She's the betrayer here, and SHE should eat the consequences, not you.<P>Bystander

I agree with Bystander.<P>I'd plan A all day, but I'd draw a line in the sand when it came to my kids and stamp my foot...not to mention put all my legal ducks in a row.<P>Kind of neat that she can't complain about the present so she has to dredge up the past everyday. You must be making progress!<P>You might want to calmly mention you can not change the past as much as you wish you could, but that you are living in the present and are committed to the future. You will not give up on the marriage based on past events...but will continue to make the changes within yourself for yourself and for your children and you intend to stand by your vows regardless of the choices she makes.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I do believe she is *trying* to be fair. She will need to work in order to move out. She would work three long shifts over the weekend while I took care of the kids. Then she would have them for the week. If I take them for the week, they go into daycare all day until I'm off. I guess they could spend the day with her and then come home when I'm off. I hadn't thought of that. I don't get any indication from her that she's considering any legal action. And she does not have any desire to take the kids away from me or withold them from me.<P>She's has been extremely honest throughout this whole process. Even the night she spent with OM she told me that she was considering going next door to have him release her sexual tension (because I couldn't - ouch!). I was floored that she was even considering such an act and told her how wrong it was and how could she face him again, etc. But she was in an emotional whirlwind. Anyway, that night is not easy to talk about and I haven't mentioned it before. But I wanted to explain that she never really did anything secretively with OM. She started spending time with him innocently and got sucked into this emotional hell that we are in now. Yes, she put herself in a wrong circumstance that allowed this to happen, but I put her there too. My point is that I think I would know if she wanted to start a war with the kids.<P>I do believe that keeping the kids with me would be best for our marriage. But doing it without starting a "war" is the hard part.<p>[This message has been edited by hopefull_1 (edited February 23, 2000).]

hopefull_1,<P>I was in a similar situation a year and a half ago. My wife had a one time affair with someone but kept it quiet. She also was/is a stay at home mom and has no real skills to earn much of an income.<P>Two months after the incident she got a job at night at Victoria's Secret and started acting strange. A month later she moved into the guest bedroom and started talking about moving out or wanting me to move out. She discussed putting the kids in daycare (something she would never consider before).<P>Long story short, I stood my ground and told her she would have to figure out a way financially to move out and pay for daycare etc. I told her I would not move out and if she did move out that time with the kids would be split 50/50. Thank God our finances were tight.<P>I was very nice about my position but remained firm. This went on for three more months while I did plan A. She never moved out and finally made the choice to work on the marriage (and moved back into our bedroom).<P>During those three months when she would bring up the issue of moving out or separating, I would put the ball back in her court in a loving and affirmative way, saying something like "I understand that you want to be apart but what you did does not change that fact that I still love you. If you want to end this then your going to have to be the one to pull the trigger".<P>I say, if you don't want to move out then don't. If you don't want to fund her move then don't.<P>Every day that goes by with the two of you in the same house (and in the same bed in your case) is another day that you can use to win her back. <P>I'll tell you what was going on in my wife's mind during those three months. She was thinking things like:<P>"He will never change... and even though he is being nice now, it won't last"<P>"I might like to stay with him if the changes he has made stick, but he still won't be able to forgive me after what I have done"<P>"I am better off making a new start on my own"<P>You can show her each day that these things are not true. I did and it worked. Don't shy away from exposing her to the reality of what life would be like apart from each other. There are nice ways of doing this. <P>My prayers are with you and your family.<P>The Rooster ~:-}<P>

Rooster,<P>Your story is very inspiring. My wife moved out for a week to stay at hwe father's. She came back, but we are in separate rooms. She asked me to move out, I refused because our daughter needs her father. She is still taking about a separation, and like your wife has no income or significant job skills. I felt very reluctant to fund her "exploration of her self", besides if she says she needs her independance, she won't have it living on my paycheck. So if she raises the issue again I will tell her, lovingly as you did, she has to do it on her own. I'm happy for you everything worked out in the end.<P>Thanks for the encouraging story.<BR>Kenneth<BR>

Hey Rooster,<P>Very inspiring!!! Thank you Rooster! And, that line about "your going to have to be the one to pull the trigger." Creates a powerful image. I like it.<P>My wife is thinking those exact things. Give me some examples of things *you* did during your plan A to change her mind.<P>Normally my wife makes a plan and goes for it full steam ahead. But she keeps putting off her job search. I hope she's having second thoughts about the whole moving-out thing.