Does anyone know the percentage of marriages saved? Can we get the fire back? How do I get my husband to see this an what can I do?See my profile for background info. C.B.

Willard Harley claims that the MarriageBuilder techniques led to a 90% success rate. I'd suggest that you call his radio show and ask him specifically what that 90% measured (I'd be interested).<P>I did counseling with Steve Harley. My marriage looked pretty hopeless, and I always used to try to pin him on that 90%. He'd laugh and never offer me the iron-clad guarantee that my marriage would be saved.<P>But it was. Even though it got to the point that neither Steve or I thought we would be successful, in the end, we were.<P>I looked at your history. I'd say that you have an excellent chance in making a terrific marriage with your husband, if you both did counseling with Steve. Your husband's feelings are very common, and with a good 6 months of effort on both your parts, I'm betting that he'd feel much different. Considering how long you've been together, it seems like that's not much time to invest to give this a shot.

What if the H isn't willing to participate in counseling???

cb--you and I sound so much alike and our stories are so similar. My husband did not wnt to work on the marriage, so I never got the chance. Please listen to everyone here and try as hard as you can to put your marriage back together. If it doesn't work out, at least you will know you gave it your best shot. I don't know if this will help, but a few weeks ago, my daughter's counselor wanted to meet with my ex and me to discuss better ways for him and me to communicate--it has been very difficult for me to talk with him because I also am emotional and it was hard on me--we used voicemails or Email, rather than talk in person. Anyway, he declined, stating whenever he was around me it made him feel too guilty and I would end up crying and he would always feel terrible afterwards. Maybe this is an area you and husband need to look at as a starting point. No criticism, just a suggestion. I do hope you can work everything out. The people here have much wisdom and insight and do understand the great stress and turmoil you are feeling.

Here's proof it can and does work on a 31 year marriage. <P>I don't know the actual success percentage ,,,all I wanted was to be a part of that percentage, however big or small it is. And after two years of recovery, I am counting our marriage as a successful recovery. <P>I won't say it has been easy,,it hasn't but it has definitely been worthwhile. I hate to think what we would be missing, had we not tried to rebuild. <BR>

I feel that what Dr. Harley says about his success rate needs to be somewhat clarified. I feel that most marriage can survive an affair, but they may not be able to survive the issues that led to the affair.<P>If the marriage fails, then the blame isn't put on the affiar, but on other unresolved problems.

CB - From what I've read (both in his book and on this forum), Harley's methods require that the betyrayer confess his or her affair to the betrayed partner. This is square one. From reading your profile, it sounds like your H has done this, and even feels guilty and apologetic (and is at least being honest about his feelings). So I think there IS a good chance that Dr. H's methods could work in your case.<P>I would recommend that you at least try phone counseling with him (as several people here have done). Or else find a counselor who subscribes to his methods. (I think this site will email you a list.)<P>I suspect the 90% success rate is probably true, it's just that in MOST marriages where infidelity is an issue, the situation doesn't lend itself to his methods. For example, his method requires that the betrayer at least confess the affair to the partner, even if he or she continues in it. But in MOST cases of infidelity, the betrayer hasn't got the least intention of owning up to the affair. The typical betrayer (like my W) just continues to deny, deny, deny, and, in this case, I don't see how Harley's methods can work. (In fact, I think this is one basic problem with them, they apply to only a small percentage of marriages where infidelity is the central issue.)<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

I doubt you will find really accurate information on the percentage of marriages that are restored after an affair because most couples who do make it don't want to talk about it afterward and so the info isn't readily available.<P>I suggest reading all you can read on the subject.....you know about the materials here of course....my personal favorite book on the subject is Torn Asunder by Dave Carder. I also suggest finding a marriage and family therapist in your area. I believe that finding someone you and your husband both can trust is much more important than whether they use a specific method of counseling (i.e. Dr. Harley's). You both have to be comfortable and able to share honestly and openly in sessions and be able to understand and apply what you learn. My husband and I are two years past the discovery and end of his affair and continue to do great....we also continue to work on our marriage and learn things about each other....this is a lifetime process.<P>Explore your options and work with your wife to find what works best for the two of you....if is the info here, fine, but if not, don't be afraid to try a different approach. <P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31<P>

C.B.<BR> Whoa, reading your profile was like deja vu!<P>I didn't know my H has a twin brother in Hawaii? <BR>I want my marriage so badly to work also but my H's response is the same as yours. <P>This place will help if anything to let you know your not alone and maybe learn something along the way.<P>------------------<BR>Peg

how do I find your profile c.b.?

Claudia, click on the sunglasses above the reply box. <P>CB - You and I are a lot alike too. I wanted to know all the answers . I would suggest a good book I read called Private Lies by Dr Pittman. Now this book, is more about affairs, and he goes into stats of 500 of his patients, I can tell you this was my first glimmer of hope. He doesn't offer much in the way of saving the marriage, (but I think he has other books out), but he helps you understand it SO well. He seems to shift the blame totally to the wayward . In a way I agree with that .<P>All of us on here, have different circumstances leading to the affair, but I don't believe that in all cases the betrayed is to blame, nor in all cases is the wayward totally to blame, in some cases its the OP that has a lot to do with this, there are some OP that have a pattern repeating of this kind of devastation.<P>So with that in mind, you can learn all you can, and pray, and Plan A, and hopefully you will succeed. You will find that some people seem to be your "twin", they share the same outlook as you, and even their story is similar. At times, these people are the most comforting, but personally, I like the exact opposite as well, to keep me thinking and learning.<P>I want to say, somewhere I read that half of all marriages end in divorce after an affair. SO I have not seen nor heard this 90% ratio, but I assume its on the Harley Plan. It is quite difficult but I can see how it would work, and if not work, help you move on to a happy life without regrets.<P>Prayers are with you today. Dana<BR>

Thank you for all the replies, right now the situation seems hopeless. How can you love someone so much?, the pain at times has been unbearable. He keeps telling me I deserve better than him, I probably do right now, but what we had at one time was so good, and that's all I can remember at this time. He gets mad at me when I talk to other people, but he doesn't want to listen either. With me not working at this time, I can't afford counseling or moving out, which I don't want to do. You know out of sight, out of mind. So I try to get by day by day.<BR>C.B.

cb:<P>I'd like to clarify a couple of points that others made.<P>In my opinion, Harley's methods work great if there's no affair involved. In other words, as marriage enrichment, they're top notch.<P>But they also work better than anything else out there (my opinion) when there is an affair. Wex is a bit incorrect in that the cheating partner needs to come forward with a confession---although a big point is the acknowledgement of the affair by both parties (discovery). There are a small percentage of affairs where the cheater continually denies, even in the face of presented evidence (Wex is unfortunately involved in one). But even those affairs can sometimes be turned. <P>The bottom line is that you must start by making the marriage a better place on your end, by learning the skills necessary (elimination of lovebusters, meeting needs, honesty), and applying them in Plan A for as long as you can. When you're worn out (and it does happen), you move to the total separation of plan B. Affairs usually end within a couple years (after "discovery). If you can hold out during that time, learn the skills necessary for a good marriage, and protect the love YOU have for your wayward spouse during that time---when the affair ends, you will have a chance (typically).<P>And if you don't get your chance, or can't wait---you will have learned marital skills that will serve you very well in your next relationship. And you'll have gone through the healing process.<P>Other approaches (Dobson's "tough love") can backfire, because they usually involve you making a demand to your spouse to end the affair "or else". And most people aren't emotionally ready for the "or else". These plans feel good---you're not putting up with the crap of an affair, you're not being a doormat, you're standing up for your rights... The central issue is that they are relatively ineffective, in comparison to Harley's plan.<P>HGB also brought up a point that bears a comment. Although it helps to be doing counseling with someone you like and trust, and where you can share and communicate, the key issue (and most important point, IMO) that she brings up:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and be able to understand and apply what you learn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to have a counselor who will not only help you talk, but will help you PLAN and EXECUTE the plan to make your marriage better. The reason I like the MB methods is that they're behavioral-based. Full of gathering information, sharing it, and then planning and executing the plan. Don't go to a counselor who is only interested in getting "feelings" and "issues" out, but who won't help you restore the love you want. You need a plan.<P>At the stage you're at, the situation almost always seems hopeless. But don't give up---it's not!!!