Although I've been gathering courage from this site for a year now to help me go on, I've not had the courage to write you until now. My H. was caught, or should I say turned in, by the OW's mother. You see, she was merely our oldest daughter's age. She was married for only 2 years and works as a secretary at my H's place of employment. This usually very cheap man who complained about every penny he ever spent on me or the children, especially their education, coughed up $1,000 to help her out with her husband's business when she asked him for $3,000. I spoke to her husband when he called me to discuss the situation and he told me that he needed $1,000 but had told her which account to take it from and labeled her a wh*re. This affair had gone on for about 2 and a half months before they were discovered by the parents and her H. My H. cried, begged, and pleaded that he could change if I only would give him another chance. I have been living with this nightmare for about 17 months now and have discovered that this wasn't the first time, even though he swore to me and the marriage counselor that it had never happened before. After only two trips to counseling, I proved him to be the liar that I knew he was and the counselor said that he doubted that he would ever return and he was right. However, our daughter convinced me to go alone and the counselor told me that he had never met a more arrogant, egotistical, self-centered, womanizing chauvanist in his entire career and the only hope for me was to leave him because people like him can never take responsibility for their actions. Well, I never had the guts to leave, although I came close several times, but I now seem to be thinking more rationally. I now, after remembering all of those business trips he took over the past 25 years, am sure that he has cheated on me many more times than he'll admit to. He vehemently denied this when I asked him several months ago, but I will never believe him, because he used the exact same line on me every trip for years that he used for the trip he took with her under the ruse of a golf trip with a vendor from work! He would tell me that he might not be able to call me the next night, but would if he could. Sometimes he would, but mostly he wouldn't and I now believe that the call would depend on whether or not he could get some tramp in the sack. At least that's how I've come to see it now. <P>He has been treating me very well since the discovery, which is a far cry from 25 years of criticism and verbal abuse that I and the children endured. He swears he loves me, and only me, but I feel sure that if the opportunity came along that he'd probably do it all over again. He makes a very good salary and knows that a divorce would be very costly. I need help to know if I'm acting rationally to expect to know the truth about the past. He, of course, says that the past doesn't matter, only the future. I, on the other hand, feel that that's pretty easy for him to say after he's done anything he wanted to with total disregard for me for years. Most of the time I feel that I really don't want to be here because I'm finding it so hard to live with the betrayal, but then there are times that he seems so loving that I really feel loved and I feel that I should keep on trying. I try not to let him see the pain I am still going through and feel that I will never get over this, especially feeling that he'd do it again because I don't, and maybe never will, trust him. Am I expecting too much to ask for the truth, just once in our lives, and get it? Or is he right?

Welcome <B>Apprehensive</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome post I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites... even for those in recovery like yourself!<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>Are you still in the individual conseling?<BR>Can you reapproach you H with it again?<BR>Have you worked out a personal <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>?<P>Do find a counselor that follows (in a similar appraoch to the Harley's)... his <B>Four rules to guide marital recovery</B> (page 87 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL> <P>Prayers to you... <P>Jim

Jim<P>I have discussed counseling with my H and he still insists that he doesn't need it because he knows what he did. He doesn't want to spend the money also. I am no longer in counseling because the counselor felt that I should leave. Part of the problem also lies with the fact that my H. told me, just recently, that it wouldn't bother him if I wanted to have sex with other men. I have never been unfaithful and don't understand where he is coming from or how he can say this and tell me how much he loves me. Can you understand my feelings? I wish I could. He's got me half crazy! <BR>I have given him all of the information from Dr. Harley and his attitude is that it's "just an opinion" and won't even try to follow the advice. <BR>Thank you for the welcome.<p>[This message has been edited by Apprehensive (edited March 03, 2000).]

I completely understand your trust issue, though the magnitude of your discovery well outweighs my own. I'm afraid perhaps my response could raise more questions than it answers, though ...<P>I suppose it's not so strange that the betrayer sometimes/often (?) rejects the counseling idea, my H included. I wonder if that's because they are paying lip service, wanting to hang onto the Old (us old wives) but remain in their world of fantasy as well (I'll just be more careful). (it's funny what your counselor said about your H -- mine said almost the same about my H, without the womanizing part -- said he was the most narcissitic person she had ever encountered and didn't know how I stood it.)<P>As for trusting again: Dr. H makes sense to me when he talks about spouses providing their schedules, access, making sure you know where they are and how you can reach them at all times. If I betrayed someone's trust and I was truly repentent, I would make every effort to concretely illustrate my trustworthiness. Is your H making any kind of effort in this regard? <P>In my case, there was violation of trust on both sides -- if you take H's perspective into account. He felt I violated his privacy by ferreting out e-mail he had (he thought) deleted. The content of the e-mail made painfully obvious how my trust had been violated (love letters to an 18-year-old girl -- most violations were simply hiding things from me, only once did I actually catch him in a blatant lie). The only change that I can think of, other than being nicer to each other and trying (at least on my part) to better meet needs, is the fact that he switched our e-mail account so that he has a private one with his own password so I can't look at his mail. This is supposed to restore my trust in him?<P>There are times when I think things are getting better and that this EA of his will eventually peter out ... but reading many of the things I have on this site have really started me thinking that there's still plenty that needs addressing. (Oh, god, not more shouting matches!)<P>As for your situation -- I'm certainly not equipped to give advice, but geez, 20 years of lying! Seeing as he has dis'ed the idea of counseling, etc., perhaps you might think about Plan B ...?

MzPen,<P> I really feel for you and these guys could be clones of each other. Mine also has hidden things from me for years, but I also found things (nude sites on the net involving very young girls) that sickened me. I swear that I could write a book. When I said that I thought that I should leave for at least a while to sort things out, he said that he'd take off and I'd never hear from him again and that the Kids (we have 4)could just manage somehow. We still have a son in his first year of college. He knows that those kids mean everything to me. There were a lot of years that they were my mainstay. He sure knows how to hit below the belt. Don't get me wrong, he's been acting like he cares, but he goes off the deep end every time I point something out to him that causes me pain and then doesn't talk to me much for days. He really thinks that since he's treating me better now, that everything should be all right. It's just so hard to deal with all of this resentment that won't leave because not only do I not trust him, but I don't have much respect for him as a person. I feel that he has developed a total lack of values and morals, especially after his comment the other night. I can't even get him in the church doors anymore! But I just keep praying. I'll add you to my prayers. We need it to keep on going. Thanks for answering.