Can anyone out there tell me if they know or have an opinion of whether two people who have completely different values and morals can make it work. When we were married so long ago, my H. and I seemed to have the same set of morals and values where family and marriage were concerned. However, somewhere along the years, and not too far into the marriage, he developed a completely different set that allowed him to cheat, lie, manipulate, etc. Since he was found out (it's been a year) he continues to swear complete love for me but tells me that<BR>he wouldn't care if I had sex with other men. As if everything he has done doesn't hurt badly enough, this statement really makes me feel worthless and dirty, even though I've never cheated. To me, none of this makes any sense and I just can't figure him out. What is he trying to do to my head? He's driving me crazy!!!

My H claims he is not the jealous type and and often through the years suggested that I might want to explore a relationship out side our marriage. On the other hand, when I was devoting a lot of time to volunteer church and community work he was continually griping about my not taking care of things at home. I think that they say what they say about us getting involved with another person only in hopes to 1. either relieve their own guilt or 2. get permission to do the same thing. When my H gets to talking about the "non-jealous" attitude he "does not have" I ask, well do you want me to be with a new friend when you are home, leave you with the kids, etc, or only when you are out of town. He looks puzzeled for a moment than usually admits that he would not like a relationship I might develop take any time away from the limited time we have. Is this not jealousy? Next question would be, "Do you want a blow by blow account of what happens with my new friend when you are not home?" I really don't think he could handle it. I know I couldn't.<P>Beth

Hi Apprehensive,<P>Your H's views have change mostly due to the affair.<P>My W... used to be very religious...<BR>she attended church every week...<BR>taught CCD (religous Ed program)...<BR>Prepared incredibly for every class she taught...<BR>Even got me involved to teach too!<P>Now... she has considered changing religions...<BR>She told the kids (3 weeks after D-day) that "adultery" is a sin... but she needed it to "feel better"... to be a "better mom"...<P>If this sounds ridiculous...you're right.<BR>...but that is the effect of the affair!<P>Will my W ever go back to "normal"... I don't know!<P>Will your H?... you probable don't know either...<P>I pray for my W... and will also pray fo you and your H too! <P>Jim

I want to thank you both for your input. At least now I know that I'm not the only one trying to live with this change. Pilots Wife, somehow I don't think that my H. would be bothered at all by any of the things you mentioned. He's gotten so strange! Jim, since you mentioned about the CCD classes and such I can see a connection as far as this goes, but now, I can't even drag him to church. He always has an excuse (he doesn't feel good, it's his only day off, etc.). Funny, he even made the comment after the revelation, that she at times "looked like the devil" to him for split seconds at a time. I, of course, was furious and sick at the same time and told him that you either have morals or you don't, and that he obviously didn't. We certainly can use all of the prayers that we can get and I thank you for yours. You and your W will also be remembered in mine. Thank you.

Apprehensive,<P>First I must tell you that I am a betrayer and I am a Christian. I tell you this so that you know where my perspective comes from.<P>I believe that your values and morals are shaped by your beliefs. As Christians, we believe that unfaithfulness, both in one's heart or by the flesh, go against God and how he wishes for us to live our lives. For me to be able to carry on my affair, I had to throw away my morals and my values, throwing away my faith, thus trhowing away God. Even though I tried to disavow my God, he would not abandon me. I was racked very hard with the guilt and shame of my actions. It was good that I still had these feelings, because I was not completely lost, but Satan uses that guilt and shame as a tool to keep you in his grip. That is what happened to me. Even though I had ended my affair a long time ago, Satan used these thoughts against me to drive between my W and children, and me.<P>The reason that your H now has diferrent ideas, is because of the confusion that the affair causes in his mind. He is double minded in his thinking. James 1:5-8 "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does." <P>He temps you to do as he has done, because he can not reconcile what he was doing, and to see you strong in your moral convictions is like seeing his own ugliness in the mirror. I also tried to temp my W, by leaving her, and telling her she would be better off with someone else. Wrong! That is not God's plan, nor God's will.<P>James 1:22-24 "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like."<P>I'm afraid that his thoughts will continue to be convoluded, until he can come to grips with what he has done. I will pray for courage and steadfastness for you, and clarity of thought for your H. Take care.

Guard<P>Thank you for your explanation. I must say that it makes sense, but this man now is a complete stranger to me. The Lord above knows how much I have struggled to continue to be here when sometimes I just don't feel like I belong anywhere any more. I guess, like so many others, it's just one day at a time. Even after a year, it hasn't gotten much easier especially since there are so many unswered questions. Since his attitude is that the past isn't important, I haven't gotten many answers to questions I have posed to him. I really appreciate the prayers. They are the only thing that get me from one day to another. You also will be in mine. Thank you.

Apprehensive,<P>Just a couple of more thoughts for you. I hope they may help you, and maybe help your H with some of these things. It sounds like you each still have issues, but the communication isn't there. Are you in marriage counseling? If not, you should consider it. I would recommend a Christian counselor.<P>You say: "I guess, like so many others, it's just one day at a time. Even after a year, it hasn't gotten much easier especially since there are so many unswered questions. Since his attitude is that the past isn't important, I haven't gotten many answers to questions I have posed to him."<P>Here is something that my counselor pointed out to me, and just really helped me to see God's plan in my life, and helps me understand his will. This is something that my W and I are struggling with right now. This is lenghty, so bare with me. When Moses was in the desert talking to God, he asked God, "Who shall I tell my people, has sent me?" God responded to tell them "I AM" has sent me to you. God did not say he is the God of "I WAS" or the God of "I WILL BE". If you think of this as the past, the present and the future, you can see that God is the God of here and now. Live in today. Do you have any control over the past. Can you go back and change what has happened. If you keep thinking about the past, it is where Satan resides, and all that he has for you there is unforgiveness, "what if's", thoughts of regret and lost opportunities. If you live in the future, satan will bring you fear and anxiety. What will life be like with H or without H in your life? What's going to happen to me? Can I last another week feeling this way? Can I ever trust him again? <P>Apprehension, you say that you have unanswered questions. What would you do with the answers to the questions? Do you not already know the hurt and pain that your husband has put on you? Why revisit it? Just some things to think about. <P>I do pray that you can find some peace of mind, and that you can heal, and that you and your H can build a stronger marriage together. Guard<p>[This message has been edited by Guard (edited March 04, 2000).]

I must comment... Guard...<P>Your ideas and thoughts are more than thought provoking...<P>Thank you for these beautiful words of faith and reality!<P>Jim<BR>

Guard & Jim<P>I finally can respond to your ideas on my unanswered questions. You see, my questions are not about his last A. When he left for 2 days with OW he called me from the car and told me that he might not be able to call me the next night. Assuming that he was going on a golf outing with business associates as he told me, I was wondering "why not?" When all was discovered, I realized how many times he had used that same exact line on me for so many other "business trips" and seminars. Sometimes he would call, but mostly he would not. When we went to counseling he told the counselor and swore to me many times over that this was the only time that he had cheated on me. However, after about 3 months I confronted him with information and he admitted to another time 5 years ago. My questions revolve around just how many times I have been lied to over the past 30 years and I'm pretty sure, knowing of some other things from the past, that it's been many. If he can lie so well about these things, how do I know that he is speaking the truth about his feelings for me now?! After reading Dr. Harley's method I felt that I should expect the truth, but unless caught red handed, he won't admit to anything. Thus, there is a total lack of trust about everything. With this lack of trust and respect for him because of these lies, I'm not even sure of my feelings for him any more. I'm sure I care, but I can't seem to allow myself to love him like I used to - at least not yet. Is it wrong to feel this way? I feel like the past 30 years have been a large lie and that I was the only one in this relationship that was married, not him.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Apprehensive (edited March 06, 2000).]

Apprehensive,<P>Yes, you are right about the lies. As a betrayer I became a very good liar. Even when I was caught in a lie, it was like I still could not tell the truth. It was part of what the whole affair was about, one big lie. My affair has been over for several months, but every once in a while, there would be contact between myself and the OW. We both work for the same employer, but in different buildings. She sent me an email, saying that she would be attending a certain employer function, so that we could avoid crossing paths. But all this message accomplished was to keep contact going, and thus not letting this thing die. About a month ago, I was going to do the same thing for her, by sending her an email. I know, DUMB! I knew it was wrong, because I sat there contemplating it for about a day and a half. But, I think God wanted this to happen, because I could have sent that message at any time, but just when I started to write it, my W walked in and saw it, and even though she saw it right on the screen, my first thought was to deny it. It was the betrayer in me, the deceiver in me coming thru. I think that God wanted to expose him once and for all. <P>The reason I tell you this, is because Satan uses all these little tricks to destroy what ever is good in you. So.... what do I do about this. I know my weakness, how do I combat that? Here's what I am doing: I do not put myself in any kind of position, nor do anything that I would have to lie about. I only associate and take counsel only with christian people now. I pray constantly for God to work in me every day. I respect myself, have confidence in myself, always ask the question to myself WWDJ (What Would Jesus Do), ask myself, is this something that my wife and children would approve of, and respect me for? I read the bible for inspiration, for guidance, for reassurance and attend bible study. I read others experiences on this board, and post to others to try to give them inspiration, and help. I am trying to serve the Lord, by serving others (Let your light shine...). I can not go back and change what I did or who I was, but thru God, I can be a person that others can repect, trust and believe in once again. <P>Apprehensive, I know that this is not going to be an easy path for me, but it is the right path, and it has many riches at the end of it. In order for me to become the man, the husband, the father that my family would love, trust and respect, I first must commit myself to my relationship with God. My W can not trust or believe me, but she does trust God. If my W and my daughters can see that Jesus is working my life, that is something they can trust and believe in.<P> Here is something about lying that I had posted to Nellie a while back that was entitled "memory loss":<P>--------------------------------------<BR>"Hi Nellie, I had an affair on my S that was off and on for over a year. I would like to try to give you some input. I hope it doesn't offend you, and you find it helpful.<BR>Yes, I think that being in a depression does have chemical effects on your mind that actually make it hard to remember anything. But, there is more to the memory loss when it involves an affair. One part is that in order for me to have lived the lie of the affair, I had to lie to cover up what I was doing. And when you lie, it is hard to repeat the same lie exactly the same. At some point in time, I literally could not tell fact from fiction sometimes, because I would weave bits of truth with the lies, thus the foggy memory. Also, if your S is experiencing incredible guilt and remorse, they conciously or subconciously block out any experiences that causes the guilt and the remorse, because they can't deal with it. This is one of the most difficult things for my W to deal with, because all of these dates and times are burned into her, and it is difficult for me to look back thru the haze, and the lies and half truths to remember. I have a pretty bad memory for dates to begin with. Anyways, I hope this helps you."<BR>----------------------------------<P>Hope this helps. Take care, Guard

Guard<P>I think it is wonderful that you have decided to devote so much of your time to help others here at this site. I have gained much insight, but I just wish there was an easy way to tell if my H is lying or telling me the truth. Like you said, I have even confronted him with concrete, tangible evidence and he will deny that he ever saw it, but there are only the two of us in this house right now. Of course, there is the dog - maybe she hid that package of new, used champagne glasses (with wine residue and lip imprints on them) in the basement cabinet!!! He bought them and the champagne to impress her, but was too cheap to throw them out. He'd rather risk me finding them by bringing them home and hurt me some more. Of course, this is a simple one to figure out. It's the one's about owning up and feelings that scare me into my shell.<p>[This message has been edited by Apprehensive (edited March 06, 2000).]

Apprehensive,<P>You have some trust issues, and he has honesty and accountability issues. It's similar to some of what Lor and I have. I am making myself accountable to her, even though right now, she really is in withdrawl right now, and does not matter to her. I can't win her trust back, I can only do what is true and right, and she will have to make the decision to give that trust again. I keep hearing a reoccuring message as I listen to the radio and read different material. Love is a decision and not a feeling. <P>Have you discussed with your H about the trust issue? Have you talked to a counselor about the trust issue and what information about the affair that you need to know? There also is some good info in the book "Surviving an Affair", by Harley. Is he willing to make himself accountable?