I would like to solicit feedback from others that may have been down this road. It seems that the affair, the need to justify it, and the subsequent negative revisionism of the marriage by the betraying spouse can take on a life of its own. How long after it becomes clear to everyone that the status quo is NOT in the best interest of the betrayer will the betrayer continue to hold out? For how long can stubborness, pride, and denial gain the upperhand while the betrayer is clearly unhappy?<P>I've been at this such a long time now that I feel qualified to write my own books. Anyway, it's pretty clear to me that my husband's current lifestyle is not to his liking. He's been seeing the OW for a year, but it doesn't appear all that serious. He's gained enormous weight in the last few months (I estimate 40 pounds since April). My son told me this weekend that his dad cries every night he stays over there. He's isolated from friends and family and lost respect from everyone. I've made significant changes that are obvious to all and must be clear to him too. Yet, he sticks with the vague "we'll just wind up here again" excuse for not being willing to work on the marriage, something that's impossible to address. He's dropped all the other complaints he used in the past with some credibility - my being too controlling, critical, etc., and is left only with unclear reasons that can't be addressed. Meanwhile, I can see that he's glad to spend time with the family while I Plan A my way along and invite him to all kinds of fun things.<P>It is so obvious that he's unhappy, but no acknowledgement, counseling or antidepressants for him. How long can it go on in this state?

I don't know, Distressed. I have no idea how long.<P>You are plan A'ing to death, and that is about all you can do until you can't do it no more!<P>Did you withdraw your ultimatum? How did that go? Did husband gain any faith in realizing that decisions he made one year ago are not set in stone, can be undone?<P>It sure sounds like he's made progress, especially in eliminating the excuses for the affair.<P>It definitely sounds like an addiction, where the addict is beginning to recognize that what ever he is addicted to is not healthy for him. Usually this is when they try to get help, or mentally beat themselves up so bad - believing they cannot overcome the unhealthiness of the addiction. <P>Does hubby know personally any success stories? Maybe you can start sharing one of our cases with him, maybe in the presence of another? The reason I say the presence of another, is because he gets the benefit of hearing without having it addressed to him...<P>Sorry no advice but here is your hug. You are doing a great job of this. I'd give a cyber medal as well.<P> Hugs

Hi Distressed -<P>I still have not figured out anything concrete to answer your overall question, but I can give you a response for the "We'll just wind up here again" excuse!!!!!<P>My response to that would be to touch his hand or cheek and say " yes, we would if you continue to avoid looking into how to solve the problems in life that keep you unhappy" then I would say "It's a hard thing to do, but I have done it from my perspective and I feel so much better with myself. I now know the way to look at and begin correcting the things that I can and I would like you to feel as unburdened as I do now if you would let me get close enough to show you!! I love you and don't like to see you so unhappy. It should be the best part of a marriage when each spouse helps the other through the "worse" of it...That's what I want to do"<P>Or something like that....depending on the circumstances.<P>What do you think?<P>As far as the stubbornness, like I said I'm still working on that!!<P>A lot might have to do with realizing that they have made a mistake but still can't fathom admitting it. Could be that they think they have lost it all and this is what they deserve. Could also be that they just plain don't know what they want and whatever the initial problems were are still there and didn't go away by their changing their lifestyle. <P>Like I said......still thinking on that one, it's hard to figure out.<P>I hope your H realizes what he needs and wants soon!!! <P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<P><BR>

TNT & Sheba:<P>Thanks for your insightful and supportive replies. Sheba, I love your response and will work on a variation of it for the next time we have a relationship talk, whichever century that occurs in. I'm determined not to bring up unsafe topics. The one conversation in August was the first and only relationship talk we have had since January. If I don't bring it up, I can easily see us exiting the millenium without ever talking about the affair, the marriage, our future, or counseling again.<P>TNT, I never really issued an ultimatum. I said to husband that if he is unwilling to go to counseling and end the affair then he needs to divorce me. I never said I would divorce him and never made a threat/demand (I was really asking him to be considerate of me). After working him for an hour, I was able to get a lukewarm, tremendously paused "yes" to a direct question of whether he would file for divorce. When I tried to put a date on it, I got stuttering.<P>There's been a pattern for many months of husband saying things and not doing them, and I fully expected the same for the divorce issue. Four times he told me he would call Steve Harley for counseling. It took six months for him to do make an appointment. He said he would go again and never did. He said he would fill out the questionaires and never did. He said he would go for individual counseling and never did. He will also never file for divorce, unless of course he suddenly becomes decisive and wants to get married or something. It could take years. My struggle has been whether I should initiate the filing for a divorce I don't want just to end the limbo. I decided NO WAY.<P>So, playing by his rule book, I'm acting like we never had that conversation. So is he. We've spent some time together in the last week and had a great time. There was ample opportunity to follow-up on the divorce discussion. It didn't happen and won't happen.<P>I don't know where we go from here. But I do know that he is still indecisive and unhappy. With the help of the great people here and some wonderful friends, I have become centered again and will be able to go for a few more rounds of Plan A.<P>Thanks again.

Distressed,<P>Maybe - just an idea, you can clobber me if you want, okay? anyways... Maybe if you took one topic of the emotional needs questionaire, and presented it to him in conversation - say once a week, maybe before the millenium you can get some sort of an answer as to what his needs are - and maybe open up a discussion as to what your needs are. Pick one that is the least threatening.<P>Please don't get discouraged, every relationship rebuilds at it's own pace. Some are fast, and some are slow....<P>I would say that mine is actually slower than yours - because my husband hasn't even admitted that he cheated. I'm pretty sure it is over, but even still we can't get all the way healed without honesty. I think....<P>God Bless.