Hi [censored] and Taj!<P>I posted this under the Christians marrying nonbelievers thread, but Taj, since you suggested a theological discussion, here ya go. I am very interested in learning how you two have come to such grips with your religious beliefs. They are so strong and binding. Have you always been like this? Through your whole life, or has it just gotten deeper with time? <P>This is what I posted on that other thread:<P>"I, by no means, am going to fire back a nasty response. I think, I am more now just looking for answers or at least the way some people<BR>think about religion or Jesus or God.<P>You said... "There is a difference between 'religion' and true, Biblical Christianity! You are not a Christian just because you go to church or do good works, anymore than you become a car because you sleep in a garage!"<P>Does that mean that even good church going people who live their life in good ways may not get to Heaven? I'm confused now. <P>You said.. "I am not trying to beat anyone over the head with the Bible..for I know I am supposed to speak the truth 'in love'. I guess I was more hurt, than angered by some of the responses."<P>I was hurt also. It's hard being in the "agnostic" stage of religion or beliefs. It's also hard when it feels like someone is ramming it down your throat too. I don't try to push my beliefs on anyone, and I guess I have a problem when people do it to me.<P>All people, Christian or otherwise, are entitled to their beliefs, aren't they? I came across harsh, because "it pushed the wrong buttons" with me too, just as our responses did with you.<P>I did not and do not ever want to offend anyone. I am sorry if I did to you. But, for Taj to say that my points aren't valid, to me is saying that my opinions and beliefs are worthless. I don't think that's fair.<P>I envy people who have a religion. Some higher power they can believe in. I was not brought up in a religious atmosphere. So it's hard to believe in something that you really haven't had exposure to. Do you believe that people of other religions are lost souls? That they won't go to a "good place" or a "heavenly place" after they die? That's not fair either.<P>I've tried to get in to religion. I know that seems weird to say, however, with my grandparents and other family members who have faith in God and Jesus, it's just hard for me to say, okay, today I'm going to start my religious experience. <P>This site has opened me up to the Christian faith. My grandparent also. And it's not just a Sunday thing. I think all people who believe in Christianity should believe that.<P>These are just my thoughts. I'm not firing back. I guess I just want to understand. That's all. I fired back in my previous responses, because I felt that my beliefs and ideas and opinions were being personally attacked.<P>Unfortunately, I guess this post pushed a lot of people's "wrong buttons"...<BR>--end of post<P>So how did you both find such a deep level of committment and "love" with God and Jesus? I do feel far removed from it.<P>I by no means want to offend either of you. These are truly my thoughts and I have been struggling with them for a long time. I even had to write a paper about it in school, which was so hard!<P>I know this is long...sorry...I'm just trying to understand it. If you're as lost as I am, and on the fence about believing and nonbelieving, how to you get to one side or the other? Is it just a decision you have to make? Does something click to where it makes sense?<P>A lot of what has happened in my situation, ironically has been bringing me closer to reading the Bible. I haven't actually done it yet, however, there have been a few times where the same passage keep popping up in my life - which to me is too coincidental. <P>My grandfather is very ill - I went to visit him and the pastor that married us was there along with my grandmother and aunt. We had a group prayer, and I actually did feel something. I haven't told anyone that. It was like a calm came over me, and an inner strength I never knew I had.<P>Are these all signs that it's time for me to "get off the fence" and start exploring my Christianity?<P>Thanks for any insight and wisdom you are willing to give me. I know you're probably both really upset with me, and I hope you don't "fire back" at me too harshly.<P>--purplemag<P>

Purplemag,<P>I have justed posted on the post which provoked this discussion, so please read that first.<P>Again, I am not offended. I responded to the question in regards to whether believers should marry unbelievers based on my understanding of scripture. It is very hard to have a discussion if one doesn't have a common ground. My ground for answers to questions regarding believers is the word of God.<P>I do believe the word of God is our map for life. It is essential that one believes in the validity of scripture in order for common ground to be met.<P>You have concerns with the morality of so called Christians. You are so right! Christians often times do not walk what they talk. Thus comes the name, HYPOCRIT! I believe that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God:. We all need a Savior and that is exactly what Jesus came for. <P>It is a sad commentary that Christians often give such a poor example of what God expects. But then, we are not perfect and need the forgiveness of God.<P>You sound like you are seeking. God says, "ask and it shall be given, seek and you will find, knock and door will be opened". That is a promise! Keep on seeking and you will find your answers Purplemag! Religion has been called man seeking God, Christianity has been called God seeking man. God is seeking all men. "It is Gods will that none should perish but that all should come to eternal life."<P>God Bless, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Purplemag<P>Before you started this new thread with this question, I had just posted on the previous post to you (long). <P>Hope you will go back and read what I shared.<P>Thanks....<P>[censored] from Texas

Purplemag<P>How could we be angry with you? As I just re-read your post here on this thread, I was reminded of something that might help you.<P>It can be supported by Scripture (Ecclesiastes, I think) that:<P>"God has placed within mankind (referring to both men/women); a God-shaped vacuum that ONLY He can fill."<P>In other words, there is an empty void within every human that only God, through Jesus Christ can fill. Unfortunately, we all, me included; try to fill that empty void with everything but the thing that will fill it and satisfy.<P>Nothing, no amount of money, no trip to the Mall, no trips around the world, no person or relationship or anything can fill this void except the Love of God expressed through His dear Son, Jesus Christ.<P>This is why Christians can experience what the Bible calls: "Peace that passes ALL human understanding".<P>Jesus said "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness sake, for they shall be FILLED".<P>In the Old Testament, in the book of Isaiah, it is written: "I (the Lord) will pour water upon the thirsty soul".<P>You sound "hungry and thirsty" and if your heart is open to truth..God will reveal Himself to you. Remember, true, Biblical Christianity is a personal relationship, one on one with Jesus Christ; through the Holy Spirit.<P>The Lord said in Jeremiah (Old Testament) that we would find Him, if we sought for Him with all of our hearts.<P>Just accept His love for you and realize you do not have to do one thing to earn it. All of your righteousness is as filthy rags.<P>Blessings upon you!<P>[censored] from Texas<BR>

Do you mind if I jump in?<P>I just know that the deepest pain a person can go through emotionally, is infidelity. It is the worst. I do believe that many people develop a relationship with God, during some of their lowest points in their life. Why would a person need God in their high points? Some of the sweetest memories with God is during the valleys.<P>I do know about that sense of "presence" you can feel - during prayer. Jesus says "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am also." Also, the Holy Spirit inhabits the praises of his people. <P>Gather with another person for prayer, and worship - at a park, in a car, anywhere, and you will find and know the presence of the Lord. Ask Jesus into your heart, and he will come. It may not be an automatic feeling, but you will begin to notice a new craving in your heart.<P>I just know that having a relationship with God, is something that drives your entire purpose in life. You don't become a robot, but you begin to have desires that are pleasing to God. He places desires in our heart, and then gives us the desires of our heart. <P>Sometimes, the desire in our heart is to pray to him for the salvation of our marriage. He gives us sometimes the added stamina to hang on. He gives us a faith when all outward signs say "it's over". <P>It is the same thing with other issues. We begin to know that we have an advocate working on our behalf. It is sometimes a faith that is almost unexplainable, but definitely there. <P>Christianity isn't about what we do, it is really about what God does. We are just the recipients. Sometimes some people's faith is stronger than others. But we only need the faith of a mustard seed to move a mountain. <P>The Bible says in Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are you saved, through faith, it is a gift of God, least any man should boast."<P>It isn't what we do that saves us. That is why it seems we are all hypocrits. It is what God does. <P>So, yes, I am a hypocrit. But I am a saved one, through faith.<P>May God be ever revealing in His love for you, and may his desires be in your heart.<P>TNT

I shared this on the Women's bible study forum. " We are all beggars but some have found the BREAD". Jesus said, "I am the Bread of Life, he that comes to me shall never hunger". I have hungered so for the love that I was forsaken through the infidelity of my husband. God filled me with more of Himself until my husband could take up his place as the man God intended him to be.<P>God hates infidelity! But He knows the heart of man and that it is deceitful. God doesn't turn His face from our sinfulness, He reveals more of Himself and that He is sufficient to deal with our sin through His Son. When we hurt, God shows Himself able to heal us and bring us into fullness of life. When we trust in Jesus He makes us complete. <P>We look for fulfillment in man made things, fidelity, power, money, integrity, we only find fulfillment in Jesus, the rest is merely counterfeit!<P>God is Love and in Him is no darkness!<P>My Hope is Built on Nothing Less then Jesus Blood and Righteousness.<P>Taj<P><P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Though I didn't post it in the other thread, God loves us enough to send us to hell. He is just which means that if we don't give our lives to Him completely and allow Jesus to live His life through us then we will suffer the consequences of OUR decision not to follow Him.<P>The choice is an individual decision to accept HIm or to deny Him. Those are the only two choices in every decsion we make. I know it is a difficult thing to grasp but with enough time studying His word and study with other Christians we get a much better understanding of who He is. <P>To get to know Him we have to work on that relationship as much as we have to make a marriage relationship work. He speaks to us through HIs word. If we don't read His word it is like not talking to youtr spouse about your needs. The reason we are here on this website. We must communicate with Himas we do with each other.<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

I admire the way you have opened yourself up here. Sometimes it is hard to be honest about such a thing. I wish there was an easy way to explain about faith and the hope I have and the peace I feel even in the midst of the chaos around my life right now. For me, the bible has so many words of hope for me, not just a bandaid to cover the hurt but a source of strength in that I don't have to carry it by myself. Where relationsips with people fail, a relationship with God doesn't. He is the only one I have found that keeps promises and is faithful, who never abandons me. By His example when the chips are down, I can cry and be sad, I can speak truthfully and lovingly, I am loved unconditionally, something that I find rare in human hearts. He accepts where I am and encourages me to grow from there.Although He is a jealous God, He allows me free will and I find the more freedom He gives me the more I love Him and trust Him and want to be like Him. The grace received from Him is like none other. When I am weak, He is strong, He makes my mustard seed of faith grow beyond anything I could have imagined. I am safe with Him, protected. I pray that you will search for it. CS Lewis wrote a book caled "Mere Christianity" that might be of interest to you. If you do read your bible, read the book of John first. Be a seeker and you will find. God Bless

purplemag,<BR>I believe the same as Taj, [censored] and TNT posted. I've gone through times of wavering faith, and trying to do "His" job. Since our separation and almost divorce last summer, my faith in God has grown tremendously. I would never have gotten through all of the indescribeable pain, had God not been with me constantly. And, I believe with all my heart that God will heal a broken marriage. He is healing mine. <P>There is a Christian radio station in Dallas that has these messages posted on their website. They also broadcast them. The one following is one of my favorites:<P><B>When I Say I'm A Christian.</B><P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I'm not shouting "I am saved."<BR>I'm whispering "I was lost"<BR>That is why I chose his way. <P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I don't speak of this with pride.<BR>I'm confessing that I stumble<BR>needing God to be my guide.<P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I'm not trying to be strong.<BR>I'm professing that I am weak<BR>and pray for strength to carry on.<P>When I say...I am a Christian<BR>I don't think I know it all<BR>I submit to my confusion<BR>Asking humbly to be taught<P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I'm not bragging of success.<BR>I'm admitting I have failed<BR>and cannot ever pay the debt<P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I'm not claiming to be perfect.<BR>My flaws are too visible<BR>but God believes I'm worth it.<P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I still feel the sting of pain.<BR>I have my share of heartaches<BR>which is why I seek HIS name.<P>When I say . . . I am a Christian<BR>I do not wish to judge.<BR>I have no authority<BR>I only know I'm loved.<P>-© 1998 Carol Wimmer <BR>

Oh my goodness...<P>Thank you all, Taj, [censored],Professorg, Trustntruth, SueB, and MTAWife... <P>I was never expecting such positive expressions. I thought for sure, I had really ticked some people off. And in that thought, I became acutely aware of my own beliefs and nonbeliefs (for a lack of better words). <P>You all are so strong in your faith. I admire that so. I think more than anything, I'm afraid. I'm afraid of believing in something I can't see. I'm beginning to see.<P>After everything that's been said here for me to read. After my group prayer with my family. <P>After that group prayer, the passage that was read before it, is the same passage that HGBrawner has on the bottom of her posts. I couldn't believe that I heard that passage for the first time, came back home, hopped on here, and happened to go into a post and she replied, with that same passage under her name.<P>I want to see it as a sign. I want to feel it as a sign. And for all intense and purposes, I feel that it was.<P>Even though my H is Catholic, he's not "religious". He doesn't practice. I told hime about these few coincidences with me. He found it "odd" too, but also told me I was "on my own with this". I think that's why I've become confused in the past couple of weeks.<P>I don't want to make him out to be a bad guy on this topic. My mother is an aetheist. So I really can't even talk to her about it. However, I do have my Aunt and my grandparents. <P>My grandmother said she wouldn't be making it through this time with my grandfather had it not been for her faith. And I can see how strong it is within her. I can see the peace she has with it even though her struggle with my grandfather is so immense.<P>Thank you all again, for all your kind words. I haven't read the other thread yet, I'm kind of afraid to. But I'll read them. <P>My tears are flowing. Thank you for waking something up inside me that's been long dorment.<P>Thank you... purplemag

Purplemag,<P>I have been concerned over the week-end that you had been offended. As you can see they locked out the other thread....<P>I am very zealous in my faith and sometimes that comes across as "holier then thou"! Its just that God has made the difference in my life and I know that is the only reason my marriage is sound. <P>Thank you for relating to all of us your positive response. Believe me if you are sensing God at work go with it! He is the one who draws us to Himself not anything else. I have heard God called the "Hound of Heaven" and I do believe it. He will reveal Himself if you seek Him. He doesn't give up!<P>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Purplemag<P>Jesus said "blessed is he (or she) that hungers/thirsts after righteousness, for they shall be filled".<P>Then in the Old Testament (Isaiah) it is recorded: "I will pour water out upon the thirsty soul".<P>You are a 'thirsty' soul in search of truth and I can assure you that God will move mountains and do wonders for people that are 'hungry for truth' (and are teachable).<P>I too, am like TAJ..because I am so passionate about my faith in Jesus and what He has done/is doing for/in me....I sometimes come across as 'holier than thou' and I have to watch that.<P>For a Christian, there is no such thing as 'luck', 'fate', 'chance' or 'coincidence'. God leads His children by Divine Appointments and our steps are ordered/directed by the Lord.<P>This is the exciting thing about the Christian walk..it is a day by day, moment by moment experience in which we totally trust our lives to Him and we are guided/directed by the Holy Spirit (or Spirit of the Father).<P>Just relax in His goodness...He loves you UNCONDITIONALLY! <P>We are here for you and by the way....none of us (including me) have arrived. There is a scripture in Philippians 1:6 that says "He that has begun this good work in us, will complete/perfect it right up til the day of Jesus Christ".<P>In other words, Christianity is meant to be a life style and that Christians aren't perfect but they are forgiven. <P>All Christians are in 'process' of maturing and growing and we really will never reach perfection in this life. This is why that<BR>verse says "he will complete/perfect what he has started, right up to the day Jesus Christ returns for his own".<P>God will meet you right where you are at! He will let you take baby steps..He will not hand you a list of rules/regulations; do's and don'ts. Religious Legalism will do this, but Jesus won't!<P>Just keep seeking truth and may I suggest you begin by reading the Gospel of John.<P>Blessings upon you...<P>[censored] from Texas

Taj and [censored]:<P>Thank you once again for posting. Taj, I did see they "locked" us out of that other thread. I'm waiting for that to happen here too! <P>Thank you both for such kind words. I'm really searching in my heart for what steps to take next.<P>Taj - no, no, no, I'm not offended in anyway. I was almost afraid to see what you and [censored] would post when I posted this thread. I thought I'd be blasted out of the MB forum forever! I'm glad it is just the opposite.<P>I am taking this day by day. That's all I can do. I'm just in my beginning process of accepting that my beliefs are changing and what steps I need to take to take me further spiritually.<P>Again, thank you again for your kind words. [censored], you're right. I think I am "thirsty"! I'll take your suggestions and begin reading. It will be hard for me to do this, so I just have to let myself be ready for that. I'm not sure when that'll be, but I now know it'll be sooner rather than later.<P>Thank you, thank you, thank you. Who would of ever thought that not only have you all helped me with my marriage, you're also helping me find my faith.<P>Thank you..purplemag

Hi everyone, I just wonder if I can jump in here and not only speak my mind on these matters but also share a few others with you all and see if any of them can be clarified. <P>Please consider this is a very touchy subject with me and I can get rather flustered about it. I also want to tell you briefly why I feel the way I do (which might help you understand why I feel this way).<P>First and foremost I need to tell you I <B>HATE</B> religious hypocrites. When I was a young boy I was raised as a Roman Catholic. The preist of our church as it turned out was an alcoholic and would get the young boys drunk and well, you all know what the press has reported. I was one of those whom he started getting drunk. No, I was lucky enough that my parents found out what was going on before anything bad happened to me. Needless to say, we left that church and attended a Methodist church, I'm still a member. This is only one extreme case of numerous negative church dealings I've had in my life.<P>My W is and was raised a Southern Baptist, still is. Here's were the trouble begins. Soon after we're married we rented a house her parents owned. They came over one day and noticed I had beer in the 'fridge. From that day on I was and still am a "heathen". Yet these same folks go to the local casino and spend 95% of their income...go figure?<P>My wife and I bought our first new house and on the second day of moving in we were vistited by the pastor of a Southern Baptist church my W had been attending. He asked me if I was a SB. I told him I was a RC. He proceeded to tell me I was going to Hell. He insisted I needed to become a SB in order to be saved. He claimed I never accepted God into my life cuz when I was baptized I was only an infant. Being a man of the cloth you would think he'd know a bit about the faith he was just blasting... <BR>I was rather offened at his stance and I promptly asked him to leave my house. My W was livid.<P>Now onto my W and <B>HER</B> affair.<BR>She was working at a local church and met the father of one of the children she watched. He was a member of that church. The 2 of them had an affair for a solid 2-3 yrs, highly sexual. Meanwhile she would attend her church as if nothing was going on and would even have the nerve to preach to me about being a better Christian! He and his W were regular church goers and were attempting to have their second child....all while my W and OM were having sex in <B>MY HOUSE</B>!<P>To this very day my W insists God allowed her to have this affair in order for her to learn what a marriage is and that it takes work. Yet because I refuse to attend her church (which I might add I attended a few months ago where they literally chastised the Roman Catholics to be just short of Satanists) I'm going to go to Hell.<P>I'm sorry, but MY God doesn't "allow" one to break His commandments in order to learn a lesson. MY God loves me for who I am and He knows where I stand with Him whether I attend a church or not. MY God understands that MY relationship with Him is personal and I don't need to prove it to anybody! <P>So now when people ask me what my religion is, I tell them I belive in the church of God and "Blues"!<P>Nobody in this world has the right to tell me I'm wrong in my beliefs and I sure as Hell will not say that to you. We are ALL looking for the same salvation, but we choose different roads to get there. What's wrong with people taking the country road as opposed to the highway, as long as they get to their destination...am I right?<P>Holy Wars? What the Hell is that? One of the biggest oxymorons I've ever known. If everyone practiced what they preached this whole world would be such a better place. <P>Stop trying to convert everyone and accept them for them.<BR>There is no proof anyone is right or wrong, it's all theory.<BR>Go ask any Scientist, he'll give you hard proof of his theories, yet the only proof a Christian has is book. A book that's been translated over many, many different tongues and even has a disclaimer in the front claiming the transaltions are not exact, but yet we sure love to hold that same Scientist to absolute fact. It goes both way people!<P>Worship a blade of grass in your back yard if you want to. If it helps you be the best person you can be and it gives you inner peace, well then more power to you.<P>I myself can respect that person for their beliefs and I won't dare tell him he's wrong!<P><BR>Sorry, that got to be longer and winded than I thought... <P>Peace all!<BR>I mean that.<P>------------------<BR> Blues<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It wasn't my fault honest, I...I ran outta gas,.....I...I had a flat tire,.....I...didn't have enough money for cab fare,.....my tux didn't come back from the cleaners,.......an old friend came in from out-of-town,....someone stole my car,.....there was an earthquake, a terrible flood.......<I>Look, it wasn't my fault, <B>I SWEAR TO GOD!!!!</B></I><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> - 'Joliet ' Jake Blues

Blue,<BR>Thanks for sharing your story. I too had an incidence in my life where I walked away from the church for their hypocritical behavior. Many years later, a dear friend helped me to see that people are sinful and that people aren't God and He hasn't changed. I had to get it in the right perspective...just because the person in my case was a pastor didn't mean that he was necessarily being godly...I guess what I am trying to say is that scripture is pretty clear that those who hold those type of leadership roles will be more severely judged than those who don't and I realize that my job is to develop my relationship with the Lord and let him do the judging. I just gotta work on taking the log out of my own eye. That is hard enough for me to do.