I need some help and opinions from you all.<BR>Although H's affair has been over for 7 months I still don't really know what happened. I don't mean details. I have my paper trail of phone calls, receipts etc.<P>The problem is that when I ask H something, the answer is always vague. For instance, the other day I asked him what he needed to talked to her about on the phone 5 -10 times a day. His answer was "Nothing very important".<P>Now I am not being pushy here. In fact I have asked very little. But this type of answer just doesn't cut it. We are getting nowhere. I need some kind of help sorting out what has been going on for the last 8 years. I have tried to put it behind me but I need some kind of explanation.<P>Here's where I need your opoinions. I have been seriously considering writing out my perception of what happened from what I learned along the paper trail. I thought maybe if H read this he could correct me, help me, anything. All I have is my perception and as we all know that can be very dangerous. <P>What do you think? Should I try this or am I asking too much? Help!!!

Hi WS,<P>Do you think you can "handle" re-enactment of the affair? For me, I know I can't. I probably never will. For me, it is better off being far away from my mind. I don't want to add to the list of triggers. <P>But, I do wish that H had felt he needed to tell me about stuff, rather than pretend it was an "almost mistake". <P>WS, you are still in so much pain, and still having to deal with so many uncertainties. You were betrayed for so long. It is definitely a legitimate reason to be so unsettled.<P>I'm afraid all I can offer are hugs.<BR>TNT

Gee TNT<BR>Can you tell my mind is screwed up by the typos in the thread title?<BR>You know I don't want extra details. I want to know if what I perceive is what happened. I look back over the years and it's like someone stole them from me because It wasn't the way I thought it was.<BR>Okay maybe the cold is setting in my brain. Heavy snowfall warnings here.<BR>I think what I need is to straighten it out so I can shelf it. He is not helping. He is doing all sorts of wonderful things but he won't help me know what happened to me. Like I just didn't exist during that period or something.<BR>ARGHHHH!!!!

As painful as this will be to hear, to him, you probably didn't exist during that time. Or if you did, it wasn't in a positive way. Watcha think? <P>He was there but - it was someone else, ya know?<P>I know, you are pretty stuck, right now. Legitimately so, in my opinion. You have lived with someone with a "dual personality", and no wonder you wonder if he is for real now! <P>Your idea sort of makes sense, at least the reasons... I just wish your husband could understand how you feel.<P>hugs to you. <BR>TNT<P>Hey, at this point, I'm willing to trade husbands. Do you want, an "almost mistake" and a couple of step daughters? or your husband? he he he

Hi Wassi -<P>I have missed you so.....and you too, TNT!!!<P>Saw your greeting on my thread, just haven't gotten to that page yet!! <P>The word "separation" comes to mind for this.....remember when we discussed how they keep "real" AKA wifes/family from "fantasyland" AKA Other life? You told me how he explained that it was separate in his head and that is basically what my H is doing.....<P>I fully understand the need to know if your reality was/is TRULY REALITY!!!<P>But you know what? It WAS your reality! It was obviously perceived differently by him.....at least at some points, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do what he did!!! HE altered it when and how it suited the purpose.....he delusioned his/your lives in his head - he couldn't do it for real....<P>You lived it....smelled it...breathed it!!<P>For me - I know that I have looked at my H's and my years together and have identified what I feel are where obstacles were, misconceptions and poor choices made (whether on my part or his) and times when his actions coincided with a particular stress or incident or attitude......<P>This helps me to put the jigsaw of reality truth together. I KNOW what actually happened.....he is the one who doesn't - he was too busy separating and running!!! <P>My point is....what could he tell you? Like with your question of why X# of calls.....Nothing important - well do you think he actually remembers all of them? Being in this "separation" fantasy - wouldn't it be logical that contact with her allowed him his fantasy frame of mind - otherwise nothing/noone else in the real world was there to play with him in his make-believe world.<P>He seems to have let that "world" go now, would writing it down from your view help, confuse, regress......Would he be able to bridge that separation gap and see it for what it truly was or what he was really doing at the time? I don't know!!<P>See, I really don't believe that it's the OW that is the key......or the focus. It's that our H's have/had something going on with their own identities or whatever and this was just the outlet for it. <P>The main question or root cause would be WHY they had to do it. It goes back to the start of the whole thing....if not all the way to childhood and their development. <P>That's where your answers are Wassi, not with the bimbo years - but the time before.........<P>Those "keys" are what are needed to unlock all of this.....they are what prompted H's brain to need the separation to fantasy.<P>I'm not expressing this as well as I had hoped....do you get me at all?<P>I luv ya and I wish I could just pound the answers to everything out of him (and mine too!!).<P>BIG HUGS.<P>Sheba

Here is some feedback from my h. He honestly doesn't know how or why his affair started. He doesn't know why he did the things he did and now he feels like such a failure. I'm not so sure that the how's and why's are so important to figure out. There is not "real" part to the life they spent with the ow. It was all fantasy, and addiction. Look toward what you can do now. Leave the past in the past. Learn from the past, but live for the future. If your h has broken off contact with ow, he made his decision for you. Sometimes that is all we get and that has to be enough to start building with. I know this is terrible and the time I have spent thinking about all the reasons for the affair amounts to a lot of wasted time. Once in a while I come to the conclusion that men are not rational beings . Start working on shortening the time you think about this.

Wassi!<BR>Geez, I haven't been here for awhile and once again my "birth" sis has the same questions I've been having. For the last year or so I've wondered about the actual events, only because my head was making it's own perceptions about certain things.....sexual in nature......and I was having a really hard time trying to figure out what was in my imagination and what it was they were actually doing. I mean, was it making love to them or was it just having sex? The other night I sat down and told my H I couldn't take it anymore, I truly needed answers to my questions. I haven't asked these questions because I always thought it was best that I didn't know, but then my imagination was making sooooo much more of it, so much for having such a great imagination! <BR>So, after a painful hour or so of questions and answers (we are both extremely shy in this area as far as discussing things like this, isn't that a funny?) I finally have some information that is sooo much more tame than my imagination could dream up. I don't recommend this to everyone, it is hurtful but not as hurtful as some of the wild-er thoughts I had been having. It was extremely painful to him because he had to open some old boxes to answer those questions but he did it because he saw the amount of pain I was creating within myself. <BR>I didn't want the nitty gritty details, I just wanted some basic facts and this helped us more than anything we've done within the past 6 months, but then that's me, not you...I'm not telling you what to do, you are so smart you can figure that one out for yourself. I just know that it took me a long time to build up the courage to face all this and get it out of my system for once and for all. I also feel slightly more in power because there aren't any secrets from me anymore, at least none that I really care to know more about......Anyhow, I hope that God guides you as he did me that night. Bless you!

You know I agree with you all!<BR>Problem is this is pre affair stuff I'm talking about mostly. I want to resolve the problems that led to the affair. Unfortunately Bimbo was one of them.<BR>The other problem is that Bimbo is not gone and bimbo is still dangerous. She is dangerous because every man is her friend. I've said this before and H agrees with most of it now. Our marraige could have ended because of the affair. My H would never have had a committed relationship with her because then she would have to give up all her other men. She is not one to give up her men. Oh oh, bitterness rising.<P>Okay <P>TNT<BR>I know I didn't exist during the affair. I thought that as I typed my response to you. Do you think I existed during the "friendship"? This is one of the things I need to know.<BR>I don't think we should trade. I think we should go for the convent.<P>Sheba<BR>Did you hear that? I said convent.<BR>You are making sense dear. I don't think I am. Not surprising. <BR>I think my problem is that this crap is causing a wall now. I think a few explanations would be helpful. <BR>Maybe what I'm saying is that I would like to write down how I felt, what was happening between us, How the bimbo caused friction in our marriage from my point of view. does that make more sense?<BR>She is and has always been the major cause of problems. <P>Derby<BR>I agree with almost everything you say.<BR>The only thing is the part before the affair was not fantasy. It was a part of Our life. I do love the idea about "rational beings". <BR>I have just lived this for so long that it seems to be a permanent part of my brain. I don't seriously think about it conciously very often. It is just always there. There are days when I would like to have someone smack me with the 2X4 and maybe I could get amnesia.

bren<BR>We were posting at the same time and son needs the 'puter. I'll get back to you in a bit.

Wassi,<P>I have read and I have E-mailed you. <P>I only want to add that I agree so much with Chick's/Bren. That is nearly exactly how it was for me. She has a good head and the ability with words sure goes beyond any I can type down. <BR>I am waiting to hear from you. I just read that your son needed the puter and I sure understand that! LOL Now, I need to get away from here and get some work done. That old addiction thing. I think I am becoming permanently bent over from being her so long today. <P>Much love sweetie and please hang in there. We all care so very much!<P>Natch' I will be praying for you.<P>(I seem to consistently have to keep editing my post lately! Yikes! Like I don't spend enough time here as it is! That old compulsive personality disorder is rearing it's ugly head again! )<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't loose. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><P>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 06, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 06, 2000).]

Wassy i think it's quite a good idea. SOmetimes they can't even explain it themselves, but if you write what you think happened and let them read it, they can put their thoughts into words and you'll get some kind of a response.<BR>Usually at this point I will say" Are you sure you want or need to know that? Will it make any difference to your situation at this moment? Will it be positive and will it help rebuilding? But I know you... and I know you need those answers, so forget about this part LOL<BR>Just rememeber that his perception of what happened might be as mixed up as he was at the time. WHy did he need to call her that many times a day? WHo knows? Does he know? Does my H ow have any idea why she was paging him over 28 times in a day? I doubt it. My H has no idea "I guess she had forgotten to tell me something" 28 times?????? " I don't know, when I called her back, we didn't talk about anything important. Maybe we were all crazy?" Get prepared for silly answers like this wassy. But when I rephrased the question to " could it be, because at that time we seemed to be doing better, and she was feeling insecure?" I got lucky:" Well, it might have been. Often she would say she just wanted to hear me, or would just ask me where I was...I guess...it makes sense".<BR>SO my friend, get ready to get all the perspectives you can think of for each question, it might need reshaping untill it makes sense to him.<BR>Will e-mail you later<BR>Hugs to all<BR>Kat

I couldn't put my situation to rest until I had tied up the loose ends, so to speak. So it would be worth it if this could do that for you. Everyone before me said some great things.<P>Your H may not have the answers you are looking for. I honestly believe mine doesn't. You may gain a few insights or you may find you accept the vagueness if you see it as the truth instead of a cover up or justification.<P>This would probably be painful for both of you. Expect to feel worse for a while instead of better. Accept that you are dragging your H's mind through it. Last time H and I talked about it, I could truly see how tortured he was about it and I think I truly did put it to rest that day (you know except for the exceptions).<P>You need to do what you need to do. When you do compose it, however, use I phrases and of course refrain from disrespectful judgements. I precieve..., I think you may have thought/felt..., when you did X I felt Y because I thought maybe you.....<P>The least defensive you make this and the more you craft this as an opportunity for him to help you, the more successful it may be. <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thank you all so much for your responses. As usual you have helped me to straighten my thoughts out. <P>Bren <BR>There are moments that I wonder if we are identical twins separated at birth. <BR>Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I think that my situation is much like yours. My perception is probably much worse than reality. I know that with my H questions are pointless. He is the king of vague. That is why I came up with the idea of writing my perception so that he can confirm or deny the accuracy of it. Easier than questions for him?<BR>As you said it isn't really details that I need.<P>Samantha<BR>Got your e-mail. Thanks so much. I am going to reply properly later this morning. You really helped me. I was late getting in last night so I read before sleeping. Thanks for all your caring and prayers!<P>Kat<BR>You do know me too well. <BR>You have hit the nail on the head. He can't explain things thus the exercise. I want to help him help me. I see it as an exercise in communication which seems to be going downhill a little at the moment. <BR>H is going forward in leaps and bounds with his healing and I would like to be able to go along. Perhaps it is time for him to help me? <BR>The things I need are more perceptions than questions. The phone calls - I don't want to know why he had to phone her. I know that was part of the addiction. I just want an idea of the sort of things they talked about. Who led the conversations? Was he open with her or did he listen to her ramble? That sort of thing. Not really specific but a general idea. And speaking of rambling..... <P>FHL<BR>My calming voice of reason. <BR>You always help so much when I need my head straightened out.<BR>Insights are what I am looking for.<BR>Yes I do need some loose ends tied. I know that H remembers very little from the actual affair. I don't want him to remember specifics so much as I want a general feel for their relationship. Maybe this is part of my self protection. We know the bimbo is likely to reappear. Maybe I'm hoping that if H looks at my feelings and perceptions that we won't have another slip like we did in July. It is even possible that if he faces the damage done to me during their "friendship" he will see a more realistic picture of her? I don't have any expectations but I do see possibilities for closure. <BR>You are absolutely right about how I should word it and I will be very careful. Perhaps writing it is all the therapy I need.<P>I've rambled enough. Thank you all again for helping me sort out my thoughts.