When my H first left, people and things I read all said that it would get easier with time. I wish they hadn't said that. It has not gotten easier. It has gotten harder.<P>I wish someone had warned me that my H's coldness and withdrawal would get far worse, that his anger would turn to cruelty, that he would become spiteful and vindictive. I wish I could have been prepared for the fact that he would go out of his way to hurt me and that the day would come when he would become unwilling to talk to me in person even about the kids, unless it was purely logistical and didn't take more than a couple of minutes. <P>I wish I had been prepared for the fact that it does not get better; it only gets worse and worse with each passing day. Then again, I probably would not have believed it - I would not have believed that my H could have been capable of the things he has said and done since he left.

Nellie1,<P>It may not seem like it now, but it can get easier to deal with, but it is completely up to you. When you understand this is not about YOU, and that your H actions are out of your control, you will find a sense of peace about the situation. I know what you are going through. My W affair has turned her into a bitter woman. She has "changed" so much recently that for a while I was really scared. But you know what? I learned to work on me, and let go of her. That decision released me from feeling responcible for our problem. It is now HER problem, just as in your situation it is your H problem. <P>Work hard at finding and improving yourself. There is nothing you can do to change your H right now. If you are happy with yourself, the other things will fall into place.<P>God Bless you - Brent

Nellie,<P>At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it will get better. You must take control of the situation.<P>My H did all those things to me, just a few short weeks ago. It is because of the affair and the selfish nature that goes with it. I have had many spiteful things done to me.<P>One day, I had enough. I gave up. I had enough pain and mental cruelty and torture. It was hard, but once I accepted that the marriage at this point was over , I have gone so much further in my life. I backslide a lot but it gets better.<P>Hang in there and take control of what you can, email me personally and we'll talk. Dana<BR>

Nellie1<P>I am sorry that you are feeling down. I am so new into it that I cannot offer any advice, only prayers and support. This is truly awful.<P>I never would have believed that my H who was a wonderful H, very affectionate, thoughtful could possibly be this same person.<P>In fact, I had to go to plan B on Wed. because I need to insulate myself from the anger he directs towards me. I mean what could I have possibly done to him in this marraige to deserve this.<P>Is it just because he sees me as the deterrent to his attaining NIrvana or "true Love". Well if he thinks this is true love go at it!!!! I just don't want to know anything anymore<P>I basically decided that by insulating myself I would preserve the memories of him of the past 11 years. I am doing this for my children who are 10-8-5, because I know if I had to keep getting the anger and contempt directed at me I would hate him<P>If there is any chance in the future, I certainly do not want to hate him.<P>I don['t know if this helps, but know that I am thinking of you today.

Nellie,<P>Was your h nice to you after he first left? I am having a problem myself and it is the opposite of yours. When I see my h, he is nice and it is just like old times. He tells me I look good. He gave me a couple of hugs and grabbed my hand and held it for a brief moment. My h is living with the ow. Towards the end, when he was still living at home, he was really only very mean to me one night. Since he has left, we do get along ok. I just wondered if you got along ok with your spouse after he left and then he started becoming more distant and mean. I did tell my h right from the start that I would be his friend and that is for the sake of the kids. Well, the last time he came to visit, he spent most of his time talking to me. I am just curious about how your relationship ended and all that. If you were on friendly terms at the beginning or if it was awful at the beginning of the end. I guess my h and I had always said that if we ever got divorced that we would still get along and that it would be a friendly divorce. That is the kind of relationship we had. I am so sorry your h is treating you this way. I guess in some ways it has gotten easier for me to be on my own but everyday, it gets harder and harder for me to understand why my h has left us. I know it is basically because he is tired of the responsibility of having to take care of a family. Of course he has left for very selfish reasons. I almost wish he would be mean to me so it would be easier to hate him. Of course I don't really want him to be mean to me. I don't want to hate him. I still will have to deal with him for a lifetime due to our children. I hope someone has some better insight for you!<P>~Woozy

Nellie,<BR>some good advice has been given in earlier posts. It is very hard, but the way I understand it is that this is who your H is now...and you cannot expect the "old" H to resurface while he still is in crisis. In this respect it is very hard because one still does not believe that the person you married and were married to for so long has turned out to be this "monster" and you are the target for his anger, misplaced as it is. He can hardly be angry with himself can he?<BR>Take care<BR>My H is still walking around with a smile on his face as if nothing has happened, making "nice" to all, but putting incredible hurdles in my way vis a vis the children and financial issues. He has no values or morals and is trying to justify his existance in this way. Very passice-aggressive. Since I have come to expect no less, I do not find this unbearable all the time. I get angry and try to work with it in terms of reinforcing, ad naseu,, our families values prior to this mess. This of course is not easy as the kids see this as an "attack" on their father. This is where the therapists do help as they can reinforce this more clearly as a third party.<P>My expectectations in life at this point are zero...and in this way I cannot be disappointed. It is interesting to work from this. One is often therefore pleasantly surprised.

Nellie1,<P>My sister is in a similar situation as you. He married one of his affairees (there were many), and still, after 5 years or so, acts like a jerk. There should be language in the divorce papers that addresses harrassing, degrading language. If he continues, you can file a petition against him. My sister has caller id and doesn't pick up the phone when he calls, because then he is just forced to say the bare necessities and she doesn't have to deal with his abuse. He has said some pretty disgusting stuff over her voice mail too, calling her all kinds of names. Too bad for him, because all that stuff is admissible. She's a pretty determined chick, and doesn't let him pull that for long. She's taken him to court twice now over this kind of BS.<P>In time, you will be thankful to deal with him as little as possible. It sounds like you are still hoping that the man you fell in love with so many years ago will come through. I know how hard it is to give up on that hope. <P>Wanna hear something interesting? My ex called me this afternoon. I was taking a nap, the phone rings, and it is him. It was really wierd. I wasn't angry at all, or overly happy, or anything. It was really strange. We talked for a good while, caught up on things. He said he wanted me to let him know where I move after I leave school and says he is probably going to leave his current job in about a year, and "who knows what can happen in a year". He sounded a little nervous, but I didn't feel nervous at all. Very wierd how calm I felt. You'll get to that point too. It has taken me almost a year. The last time I talked to him was August, I think.

brentb,<P>No, it is not HIS problem when he is trying his best to make me raise the kids according to a set of standards completely different from what I and my "pre-alien" H had in mind. No, it is not HIS problem when I never know how much child support I will get, because he chooses to deduct various amounts that he decides I owe. Maybe my lawyer can make him pay this time - but what about a year from now, or 5 years from now - am I supposed to take him to court everytime he subtracts $100 or whatever? He has the money to fight me in court, and I don't. <P>woozy,<P>My H was certainly not nice to me at the beginning, but he did show a small measure of I'm not sure what - perhaps concern, but that is probably too strong a word. Since the end of the summer or so, that has completely disappeared. Nothing is left but pure, unadulterated anger and hatred. At first, he did not go out of his way to hurt me financially. Now he does. At first, he acted as if we still agreed of a few issues related to child rearing - now that no longer seems to be the case. I thought I knew how he felt about a few basic child raising issues - and I was wrong. I would never have married a man with the attitudes toward children that he seems to have now.<P>lonelymom,<P>I can't control anything, because I never know what he will do next. This is not a matter of our relationship, but more a matter of not being able to co-parent with someone who hates my guts, and is completely and totally unpredictable. Even strangers who have dealt with him recently complain about the fact that he will say one thing and then reverse himself a couple of days later.<P>Claudia,<P>I think it would have been far better if he had just disappeared totally, never to contact us again. For 19 years I made almost all the decisions regarding the children, because it was like pulling teeth to get him to participate in the decision-making process. He would say he didn't know what to do. Now, he wants to make all the major decisions regarding the children. Yet he doesn't want to spend any more actual time with the kids than he feels obligated to. When he first left, at least he spent time with the kids. <P>Willbok,<P>Unfortunately, in my case, having zero expectations is not good enough. He has come up with cruel, spiteful behavior that it never would have even occurred to me to expect.

TheStudent,<P>I am glad for you that you have gotten to that point re: your ex.<P>My H doesn't call me names or anything that overt. He is much more passive-agressive. For instance, he came to pick up the kids once, acting reasonably normal, for him, and while I wasn't looking, hid the child support check, which was smaller than normal because he had deducted a lot of money for things he thought I should pay for. Hours later, he emailed me to tell me where the check was. I wasn't really expecting the check until the next day, so it never occurred to me to ask him about it when he was there. <P>

Nellie~<BR>It sounds like your H isn't the only one angry and bitter. I hate to say this because it may sound mean but it's true. The sooner you decide not to worry so much about him and his pettiness the sooner you can make life easier for YOU. I'm not saying you should allow him to get away with subtracting from your support, this should be dealt with in a court of law and it should probably go through the support protection unit in your state. In New York it's easy enough to set up and then it's set in stone and he can't decide on a whim to change what your expecting. Either way, you need to take charge not only for yourself but for your children as well, and get this matter settled in court. This isn't the same as a divorce action, it is support and custody and done in a different court system all together. I would get an appointment with an attorney, sometimes you can even get the attorney expenses paid by the spouse, your H. It depends on your state and it's individual laws.<BR>But then it does come down to you deciding to take control over YOUR life and not letting his craziness get to you. The only thing you can control is yourself and you can prove this by not allowing yourself to be "Pricked" by his attitude, be too busy with yourself to allow this to bother you and you will find that it does get better with time.<BR>As long as you allow yourself to feel as though he is in control, as long as you allow yourself to be sucked into a bitter state, as long as you don't take charge to maintain your own well being is as long as you will allow this to hurt you. I hope this makes sense to you and know that I am praying for you. God Bless~<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Nellie, My H is the same is yours. And, no, it is not getting better for me, either; in fact, I feel it is worse because he has indicated by all of his actions that he hates me and that it is over. The OW now dictates all of his actions - indeed, she seems to control is mind and soul as well. He clearly seems to have crossed the line from a warm-blooded human to an actual non-entity. His actions are pure evil.<BR>People have told me it will get better, too. But I still cry several times a week, especially at night. I feel so alone, with these children and this house. Seeing other families with loving fathers just starts the grieving process all over again. It hurts intensely to think that my childrens' daddy has dumped them emotionally and will no doubt marry his OW and have more children with her. <BR>Nellie, I have been told by people who are objective about this that my H is the crazy one. As my sister said, "He is really insane. That relationship with his OW will never last. It is sure to implode in time."<BR>But that is no consolation when he refuses to speak to me, when I ask him a benign question such as "What time will you be bringing the kids home?" and he explodes, accusing me of speaking to him in the wrong tone of voice, etc. and then hanging up on me and refusing to see the kids at all. It is no consolation when my kids come back from visiting him for a night and they notice a new photo set amid their pictures -- a photo of their father and his OW in an ornate frame inscribed with "I love you." It is no consolation when I realize that he is really not coming back and that the REAL reason (besides insanity and pure selfishness) he is so angry with me is because I am standing in the way of his new life with the OW. He would love to be showering her with money and gifts but he is obligated to pay me and the kids support. I have come to the conclusion that this is the true reason for my H's rage. And that just makes me feel worse.<BR>By the way, Nellie, do you work outside the home? I have not worked outside this house in more than a dozen years but that is the ONLY thing I have not tried in order to get my mind of this monster. In my heart I have a feeling that this is what I need to do in order to turn that corner. It's just getting up the nerve to do it.<BR>I will pray for you now. Cindy N.<BR>

chick's,<P>I know that I may be able to get the money back that he has deducted, but there is nothing to stop him from doing it again in the future - unless he does it so regularly that the court is willing to garnish his wages. <P>He has a legal right to be involved with educational decisions. Am I going to have to spend money on a lawyer every time I don't agree with what he wants to do? And I never know when that is going to be. Even the school system is getting confused by his reversals - one day he says he wants one thing, and a couple of days later something else. Often what he wants is the antithesis of what the "old" H would have wanted. <P>I am not surprised about his negative attitude toward me, but he has a negative attitude toward the kids as well. He expressed concern about whether the older ones would be able to handle college, and they are both doing very well. He seems to think that all the kids are much less competent and much less well behaved than they actually are, and of course it is all my fault. Our oldest daughter said the other day that if she has kids she hopes they are just like our youngest. A storekeeper who sees the youngest frequently asked if she was always that well behaved. Yet my H at one point wanted her evaluated for behavioral problems.<P>MovingOn,<P>Have you read the book, "Sudden Endings". It was written by a woman whose H left after many years of marriage, and who became inexplicably filled with rage at her. She decided to research the subject and found that this was very common, including the "narcissistic rage". <P>I don't know exactly what my H is angry about, although I suspect that he blames me for "having" to get a divorce. Now all he cares about is money. <P>His OW seems to control his mind as well. It is not just his attitude toward me - his entire belief system about virtually everything has changed. <P>I started working outside the home part-time about six months ago. I wish I could say it has gotten my mind off this - but it hasn't. I don't think about it constantly at work, but in many ways it makes it more difficult to go to work and listen to other mothers talk about their families, and complain about the stress in their lives from coping with a couple of kids and a husband who may not do as much as they think he should.

I would encourage you to get the support payments made through the court. They can take it directly out of his pay in some cases. This would be one less thing hanging over your head. <P>For the longest time, I kept believing that if only I were nice, then I'd be treated nice in return. I've learned the hard way that it doesn't work that way, and sometimes from the person you expect it the least. He is not your H anymore. He is a stranger now. Everything you need to do now for your kids is strictly business. <P>I wish I knew what to tell you about passive-agressive people. The reason why it is so hard to deal with them is because they are usually pathological liars as well. Hang in there...