<B>I don’t think that I can do a 100% Plan B; W & I were always so close and my daighter always saw us so united that I believe seeing us not talking to each other would hurt her even more. I don’t think Plan B can be 100% applied without hurting the children when they are older than 2.<P>Also, I was planning to give her the letter tomorrow (March 18), the 16th anniversary of our first date but still 1 month prior to our planed separation, but changed my mind thinking that the timing is not right and it would rather be a LB to do it that way. So, I still have a few weeks to think this letter through and polish it. What I’ll give her tomorrow will be a poem and/or an e-card.<P>I must add that by giving this letter I am not beginning a plan to get my W back. In my book when it’s over it’s really over. IF tomorrow brings a NEW relationship with her so be it, but as far as I am concerned the old relationship has ended. Under this lens my only and real concern is my daughter, I want her safe and happy; she turned 8 one month ago and will be going into pre-puberty anytime soon; it will be more important for her future to have both parents supporting her in harmony with each other rather than we not talking with each other.<P>Again, I will appreciate your comments and suggestions.<P>Alex</B><P>C,<P>It was hard to think this over, it is harder to write it down. Things ought to get better for you, for me, for (daughter), specially for her. We must think straight so she comes out of this as unharmed as possible.<P>Tomorrow we will part, then what? You will awake in somebody else's arms and will see your reflection in someone else's eyes. And I will imagine that those eyes are mine still looking at you! You will go shopping and will share your findings with somebody who will probably care about it exactly the way that I didn't know how; you will rearrange the furniture for a person other than me and the person will probably notice, something that I never did; you will do things together and will perhaps feel appreciated like you didn't feel with me. And… will you be part of a team? Will you have a friend like the one you had in me? Will you see in those eyes as much love as there was in mine?<P>Tomorrow I will probably see you at a distance wearing clothes that I didn't know you had, our friends will avoid any mention of you until I ask and even then, they will probably be rather quiet- so much they loved us as a couple, so much they love you and I separated!<BR>Are four months enough to turn a bad husband into a good one? I say four months is a lifetime that can really change a person, a marriage, a relationship for better or for worse. I think that I’ve changed, that I’ve grown up a bit during this time. I know that you “weren’t there alone” these 16 years, that I have a big share in the collapse of our marriage. I took you for granted for many things. I neglected your needs in so many ways thinking that you were happily participating in “our team”, while a team requires constant communication to work- communication that stopped sometime along the way.<P>You were there for me most of the time, praising me and I never praised back, helping me & I didn’t correspond, thinking ideas for our home & family, buying gifts ahead of time while I never noticed the changes you made in the house, took as a given matter that you’d take care of bills and “house stuff” while at the same time could be a bright business partner and social company. You were all that while I never learned to get you the right gift. I know that even the idea of “the team” was product of my selfish imagination: it was easier this way. I now know that I was very wrong and I hope that you really know how sorry I am for neglecting you, for neglecting US.<P>We cannot just walk separate ways because we have a business together, but most important, we are partners in the most beautiful project that we could ever dreamed of: (daughter). I don't want for her, and I am sure you don't want either to grow up with one parent not knowing where the other parent is, like happened to me, and mainly like happened to you, so we must work for her in same direction.<P>Living like this is hard. You have asked me to forget you and go on with my life, so I am now your almost ex-husband, certainly ex-lover but if we don’t separate immediately I would soon also be an ex-friend. It is not that I don't love you but exactly the opposite. In these last few months I perceive you so different than the girl I fell in love with, and so different than the wife I had 4 months ago that it hurts too much, almost to the point of hate and you don't deserve that, and certainly (daughter's name) does not deserve her parents hating each other.<P>Nevertheless, as of today I beg you: please don't ask me for anything that is not indispensable. If you have clients in Spanish please attend them; I can assist in correct your letters in Spanish but I won't write them and I will not take over undesired clients. Please avoid contact with me for anything other than business when (daughter's name) is not around. You deserve to have and live your own life, so have it and live it, I rather be still a more or less pleasant memory before I turn into a nasty one. I also rather to do it this way because in any other way I will stop loving you and I am not ready for that.<P>Counseling- here is an apparent contradictions because we agreed to do this together to learn how to communicate and deal with (daughter) from now on, our little angel, and will have to have a great level of communication to succeed.<P>I cherish every minute of these 16 years with you. You are the best person that ever crossed my path and you saved my life in more than one way. I love you, (wife) and I always will.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>

ThisAlex,<P>I think it is a wonderful parting letter. There are a few grammatical issues, but let's see what other people have to say before worrying about little details.<P>I know this is very hard, but you are doing this in a very gentlemanly manner. Your W will come to appreciate what you have done.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

{{{{{{{{{{<B>Alex</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I don't like I bear advice that is hard on the ears and even harder on the heart...<P>IMHO your modified <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> is bound to both be a source of frustration and possible failure...<P>If your focus is on your daughter... then what is the form of that "focus"...<BR>-To protect her from the "bad" in the world?...<BR>-To protect her from financial insecurity?...<BR>-To protect her from the influence of your W?...<P>Is the good of "hav(ing) both parents supporting her in harmony with each other" the right goal?<P>All I see in this plan is <B>you</B> becoming less ready to handle your own life changes... as your W interfers with your growth... Her continued contact with you will stiffle your growth... keep you hurting... keep you guessing. That's what <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> is to give you... time to grow.<P>I understand you don't want to <I>hurt</I> your daughter... but I see a "wounded" father as a greater long term harm to her.<P>If you could do more of a true/pure <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>...<BR>i.e....<BR>-split the business<BR>-have no business dealings<BR>-have no sharing of resources<BR>-have no sharing of customers<BR>-have no sharing of anything<BR>-be fully competative<BR>...and...<BR>-separate<BR>-arrange a vistation schedule fair to all<BR>--(even daily time with your daughter!)<BR>-decide on custody/child support<BR>-<B>have no</B>(as much as possible) <B>contact with your W</B><P>I don't mean for you to do this overnight...<BR>Prepare your daughter...<BR>I have talked to my kids... even my 8 yo daughter (turned 8 last week)<BR>about the chance I will go to a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... and yes they do understand. (Not every detail... but the ideas)<BR>They know it is to <B>save my love</B> (this is how I will avoid "parents hating each other"!) for their mom.<BR>Yes... they also know it may make us grow apart... but they know too... that moving apart is a consequence of their mom's decision... they know that mom has distanced herself from me.<P>But most of all... you have to stress over and over and over again... that your daughter is <B>not</B> at fault... is <B>not</B> to blame herself. You've seen my sin/sinner posts...<P>Preparation takes time...<P>I know that "this" isn't what you wanted to hear...<BR>I feel sad about what I've just recommended to you...<BR>...because so many times I've recommended hard things...<BR>(ask Medic... in his <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001412.html" TARGET=_blank>"I still love you"</A> post (page 2))<P>I pray for your good judgment on this...<BR>I'll support whatever you decide!<P>I don't want to lose your friendship...<BR>Your posts and replies to me have always been those of a true friend... and a fellow <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000008.html" TARGET=_blank>FS</A> in need.<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>I am sorry that I won't follow on this one… and I am sorry that I probably don't belong here any more since this a place to <B>build marriages</B> and I no longer want to reconcile. In my book this is over!!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> your modified Plan B is bound to both be a source of frustration and possible failure... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Failure only if I were planning to rekindle the old relationship, which I am not.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If your focus is on your daughter... then what is the form of that "focus"...<BR>-To protect her from the "bad" in the world?...<BR>-To protect her from financial insecurity?...<BR>-To protect her from the influence of your W?... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>To give her the support and encouragement that she has always have.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is the good of "hav(ing) both parents supporting her in harmony with each other" the right goal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, I believe it is: when we brought her to this world we signed a non-written agreement with her & I intend to fulfill my obligation. I am not giving up my life, rather <B>I am giving her life once again</B>.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All I see in this plan is you becoming less ready to handle your own life changes... as your W <B>interferes</B> (got you!) with your growth... Her continued contact with you will <B>stifle</B> (got you again!) your growth... keep you hurting... keep you guessing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry, not guessing- I know what mistakes I made, I am counting my loses. <B>Of course</B> I never had a 16-yr. long (that's today!!!) relationship, <B>and</B> this is the first relationship that produces a daughter, but I know that I can very well emotionally & psychologically distant myself from <B>anybody</B> overnight.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I understand you don't want to hurt your daughter... but I see a "wounded" father as a greater long term harm to her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't worry, my friend.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you could…<BR>-split the business<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, but I am accelerating the process to personally open a branch from where I will be working. <B>MAYBE</B> later we'll split it, if we do it today there will be no business.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-have no business dealings<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>???<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-have no sharing of resources<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>She'll make her sales commissions, the accountant will pay her; we'll attend the (new) monthly partners meeting; if at the end of the year we turn out a profit I'll send her a check.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-have no sharing of customers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>???<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-have no sharing of anything<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><B>Not even a daughter???</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-be fully<B> competitive</B> (got you again!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...and...<BR>–separate<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As of May 1st. at the latest.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-arrange a <B>visitation</B> (fourth time!) schedule fair to all<BR>--(even daily time with your daughter!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You are assuming that my daughter will stay with her, this is something we are still discussing.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-decide on custody/child support<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There you go!!!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-have no(as much as possible) contact with your W <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well yes of course!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't mean for you to do this overnight...I have talked to my kids... even my 8 yo daughter... and yes they do understand… They know it is to save my love for their mom.... they also know it may make us grow apart... but they know too... is a consequence of their mom's decision... they know that mom has distanced herself from me… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't want my daughter to find her mom "guilty as charged".<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... you have to stress... that your daughter is not at fault... is not to blame herself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Again, of course!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know that "this" isn't what you wanted to hear...I feel sad about what I've just recommended to you......because so many times I've recommended hard things...<BR>(ask Medic... in his "I still love you" post (page 2)) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, but this is my Plan B as I want to approach it because <B>I AM NOT TRYING TO GET HER BACK</B>. I see people here Plan B'ing struggling because the spouse is not coming back. I intend to go on (sorry if this doesn't follow Dr. H's principles) and <B>IF</B>later we reunite it will have to be a totally new relationship <B>BECAUSE</B> the old one was based on blind fate; any new relationship (with her on anyone else) would have to be based on negotiation (sad, but I won't have any other way).<P>Thanks for everything, Jim. You are an amazing person, so giving, so willing to listen and advise and/or support those who need it. I'll never forget how I felt when I first read your welcome post: I saw light at the end of a long tunnel, but light at last.<P>I love you man, but how can I put it? <B>"A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!"</B> <P>Alex<P>PS: How's your sight? I posted a rather long reply here.<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B><p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited March 18, 2000).]

Alex...<P>{{{{{{{{{{<B>Alex</B>}}}}}}}}}}...<P>I think I understand much better where you're at now...<P><B>Your</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> <B>is</B> a Harley <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... "to grow as a person who is healthy from within!"<P>Transitioning toward it(<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>) with a child is always hard... I see it coming for me too.<P><B>And hold on a minute</B>....<BR><B>YOU <I>DO</I> BELONG HERE</B>!...<BR>Marriage Building isn't a once in a life time activity... keep growing with us... please... <P>Keep reading... keep posting... like RWD(Bob) does!!!<P>I retract my word "failure"...<BR>...you have found your success!<P>And what an amazing <B>father</B> you are!!!<BR>Your daughter is <B>so</B> lucky!!! <BR>You have every reason to be proud of what you've done and what you plan on doing!<P>You really sound like you have your head on straight... and you've thought it through...<P>I'm sorry if I sounded condescending...<BR>...I didn't mean to!<P>Your path is clear...<BR>...I support you 100%<P>Your light... is there...<BR>...know that <B>He</B> is holding the candle for that light!<P>You know I love you... <BR>...and my respect for you will never stop!<P>------------------------------------------<P>Thanks... yes... my eyesight is much much better!<P>Your friend... <P>Jim

Thanx, Jim.<P>The wife & I went together to a benefit last night. It was a weird and sad celebration for the 16th anniversary of our first date & a planned farewell party.<P>At the end of the night I toasted telling her "have a nice life" and she started crying. I told her that I didn't understand her, if that meant that she was thinking of trying again. She said "no, but do you think that I am just a selfish b***h?"<P>So that's that. Today I feel like a newborn, exactly 16 years. Wow. It felt like 10 minutes... under water (just kidding) . They went fast.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>

ALex...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It felt like 10 minutes... under water<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... sound like a new Baptism... for your newborn state.<P>Prayers for you... <BR>That's always... Alex!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 19, 2000).]

Alex,<P>IF you feel you do not want to reconcile, then why the Plan B? Why not divorce & be done with it? Six months 7 you are giving up completely on the marriage after 14 years? I don't understand.<P>I think your letter is full of love busters & will leave her waiting to "bust your chops" in some way.<P>1st paragraph is okay.<P>2nd paragraph stinks. Think shew doesn't know what she will be doing? Why tell her?<P>3rd paragraph I think is great. I would leave out the bit about, "for better or worse." Just put better in it.<P>4th paragraph is good. Giving specific examples. One suggestion. NEVER say never or always.<P>5th paragraph - Why does she have tpo remain a part of anything. She can be a partner & just up & leave. She doesn't need to do ANYTHING with you. Yes she can just walk away. Leave that bit out.<P>Paragraph 6 - Leave it out. Don't point fingers.<P>Paragraph 7. Prett bad. I'd leave it out. Perhaps change it to tell her no contact except as necessary for daughter & business. Keep it to a minimum.<P>Paragraph 8 - Leave it out.<P>Last paragraph - <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I cherish every minute of these 16 years with you. You are the best person that ever crossed my path and you saved my life in more than one way. I love you, (wife) and I always will.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Leave out the "I always will." You won't. You WILL always have the fond memories & your daughter, but you will not "love her" the rest of your life.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Thank you, Jim, <B>always</B>.<P>Hi Chris,<P>I call it "almost Plan B" because it has some elements of it. The truth is than when you apply Plans A or B you are not exactly getting the old relationship back, but rather you build a new one. I want to go one step further by not committing with this marriage. IF we reunite later so be it but I won't pursue it for the reason I explain in the next paragraph.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> IF you feel you do not want to reconcile, then why the Plan B? Why not divorce & be done with it? Six months 7 you are giving up completely on the marriage after 14 years? I don't understand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We are going to get a divorce & be done with it. I am giving up only after 4 months into the affair (not even 7) and after 16 years as a couple (15 married) because of the gay issue. She is having affairs first with one, now with 2 other woman (one physical, one online with the ex-lover about to become physical) and says that's what she really wants and always wanted. It is mostly about sexual orientation and although I have tried my best, although we have talked and talked and talked about the other issues in our relationship I now understand that like someone told me here "I don't have the right equipment". I knew of her lesbian past and it has always been in our life.<P>Thanx for your thoughtful analysis of my letter, I'll make some changes.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>