I came here for a long time before I darned to say anything. Then the time came when I stated to think I had a handle on what was going on in my life. I would sit here on my high pulpit preaching how you can get though this mess. What a joke all that has turned out to be. No my wife has not gone back or is she still seeing the OM, but it appears my rating is well below that of many of the people she knows. <P> She works on weekends selling her work. Last friday the OM got in a accident and his wife started to cause trouble and makes threats. So to protect her I was with her both Saturday and Sunday. Sunday was really an eye full. My wife is friendly and does talk to a lot of people. She had told me about this guy that was a real quite type and how she got him to open up and have some fun. She told me about he sold a few things for her. Well he showed up again to day and it was amazing how I became a third wheel for at least 3 hours. I couldn't believe my eyes. My relationship with my wife is still not a sexual one yet somehow I bought into this she isn't feeling good BS. She claims to be feeling down and having trouble (she does have Panic disorder). I end up serving her breakfast in bed, dinner in Bed, doing all the cooking, laundry and cleaning around the house so that she came cope with her Panic. What a fool I've been, I have slowly over the last few years turned into nothing but slave labor. <P> What is wrong with us? We are so blindly in love with our partner who has spelled it out very clearly exactly where we stand yet somehow we think there is a chance. We will buy into anything that will explain a problem. There was a time when I would gage how well are relationship was doing by how well our sex live was doing. After years of hearing about was a male thing I stop using it, WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS it has proven to be a DAMN good gage of how we are actually doing. I'm married to a friend not a lover (And I actually accepted this ????)<P> I read the posts from others and I look at my life and wonder why do we keep getting up when we are only going to kick in the face again. I'm tired, so very tired of this, dealing with the anxiety attackes. At one time in my life I was a happy carefree fun loving person, today I'm on antidepressents and wondering what purpose I service. <P> I hear so many of us tell others you can do it, I did BUT HOW MANY OF US HAVE THAT MUCH TIME BEHIND US OF BEING IN THE GOOD. I now find myself wondering what is the meaning of everything and anything. Harley talks about building up those love points but it seems that you can build them up all you want but if there is not spark it is all in vane. <P> Anyways, I think I said enough so just add blab, blab, blab and you'll have the rest of the story.<P> I work for guy not to long ago would had two phases that really apply here<P>There is not such thing as gravity, the earth S _ _ KS.<P>Life S _ _ KS and then you die.<P>Sorry for being such a downer but the other one who half way undestands me is my dog and she has been the only one who has been here for me today.<P>

Maybe she can communicate with other people because there are no emotions attached with them. <P>Maybe she panics with you because of the emotions she feels with you.<P>Something to think about...<P>Keo

{{{{{{{{{{Getting_Better}}}}}}}}}},<P>"If you don't have an afair with your wife someone else will"... was a <B>very</B> good quote...<P>...and I know you mean it...<P>...but you've hit a stumbling block... right?!<P>You've worked so hard...<BR>You've gotten some results...<BR>Your meeting her <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>...<P><B>BUT</B>...<BR>She is <B>not</B> meeting yours!...<BR>Especially your need for <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Fulfillment</A>!<P>You said you were in counseling with your W at one time...<BR>Are you still there?...<BR>Is the counseling the kind that can show her how your needs are just as important as hers?...<BR>Can you start on it again?!<BR>Please don't give up on the anti-depressants... they are <B>not</B> a crutch for a weak person... they are what can keep you on the harder path you've chosen... and even strong people need help!<P>You had some success...<BR>...how much is your W over the affair?...<P>Have you and her written the "How to tell a lover that the relationship is over letter(on page 58-59 of SAA)"?<P>You've provided such good advice to others...<BR>...don't be afraid to ask for some for yourself...<BR>...don't let your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver</A> overwhelm all of you!<P>You know something... <BR>...you too are loved here! <P>People forget that very important fact!<P>When you get down... check out some of the "Inspirational" posts I have on my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A> post.<P>How about a little <P>Jim

First "Getting Better" and "Getting_Better" are the same I just come here at work and home.<P> NSR that did help but I still find myself in a cloud of dispare. I try to read and it sounds good and you feel good but by the end of a sentence you have no idea what it was about. For two days now I have been going though one anxiety attack after another. I feel like someone is just standing there ripping my heart out and running it though a grinder. They put it back and start all over again. I hit some big time lows but this one seems to be the deepest. <P> To answer some of your questions --<P> We were seeing a counselor at one time and he was the one that got my wife though her panic disorder. Panic disorder is and has been a major devastation in our lives and keeps her in a state of fear of the next attack. A few weeks back the sessions were only draining her and she wanted to take a break and we did. I'm not sure going back there would help, neither of us seemed to getting much out of it.<P> My wife and our counselor are against my coming here. They feel I should be addressing everything to my wife and it should be a thing about me and her. Well that's a great idea but when she sleeps in the middle of the day and is asleep again about 11:00 what the H_LL am I to do besides sit and watch the ceiling. I also have found a lot of comfort that I feel I need by talking to others who are 3rd parties in the same boat reguardless of which side of the fence they are on. I found "Jill" to be of a great help since she so closely matches my wife. <P> One major difference I think our relationship has (at least according to her) is that she became interested in this guy because I had difted away (yea, doing housework and trying to make her life easier). She had approached me one day and made the statement how come other man notice her. Well this was her way of saying "I'm going to go and have an affair now". As I have conmented before ladies, this is not spelling it out in black and white. To me I needed to try harder and tried to not let all of this work I was doing interfere with my mode and to try and spend more time with her. WRONG, to here I didn't care so she was a failure and decided to punish herself (Of course she has also told me about how they looked into each other's eyes and went for it).<P> I'm getting really carried away here. As you can see I really have no idea what happened due to a story that never did become consisent. I don't think it really matters but it is times like this that I become convinced that my reality is just and illusion and my nightmares are my reality. So many times I just had to plan on the worst and it was the truth.<P> I do find myself having my hands somewhat tied by the fact that I shouldn't be doing this and I should be reading any books. That she should be the book that I study.<P> Sorry about rambling but I find myself back at square one. This morning she had this chip on her shoulders because she know I wasn't feeling all that great and she felt it that I should have better timing because she wasn't feeling all that great, Panic disorder I think everyone should at least get beat up by it at least once in there life. Maybe this is what my problem is. I take my marriage vows very seriously and I meant for better or worst, in sickness and in health. I ended up being married to someone who does go though hell for no reason (Panic disorder has no reason for anything that happens)and it does wear on her. I end up pushing my needs away time and time again. She can get so touchy that the tought on bending in someway to meet my needs is nothing but selffish on my part.<P> I don't know what to do or how to get over this but somehow I always do it. The only difference now is I writing it donw here.<BR>

Getting_Better,<P>One thing that stands out in all MB principles is that you <B>must</B> grow... for yourself!<P>True of both <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... and <B>even</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>!!!<P>If it isn't happening for you... get <B>your own conselor</B>....<P>Maybe the MB counselors don't work on the "Panic attack"... aspect... but they might refer you to some specialist.<P>You must help yourself... <BR>Yes... stay here... but professional help is necessary too!<P>I'm praying for you... <P>Jim

What you need to stop doing is wrapping your life around your wife. You need to start caring about yourself. It is obvious that your wife doesn't. Go for therapy with or without her. Begin to look after your mental and physical health. Join a gym and start a program of exercising. Meet other people through jogging, martial arts, ballroom dancing lessons etc. Hopefully she will reach out to you and want to rebuild the marriage. If she doesn't at least you will have build up inner strength to move on with your life.<BR>

NSR and Max<P> You both bring up some very valid points and that is I must grow. I need to be able to stand on mine own and not let her bring me down.<P> The last few days have been hard. Living with someone with Panic is hard. So many times I don't know how to call something. I can now sit here today and know she does love me. I can sit here and know I have over reacted to what happened, BUT AS I REPLAY OUR LIVE I CAN SEE WHY I FEEL THE WAY I DO AND IT IS JUSTIFIED. <P> Her having Panic Disorder makes the crazy sane, it makes reality a fantasy. It has put me though hell. She hit bottom a years ago and the affair was actually a result of me still learning to deal with something that has no logic. I have work with her during panic attacks and I''ll tell you NEVER have I seem anyone as terrorized as she is during one of these. To add to the joy of the attacks (which have incease due to her guilty feelings) we have had VD scares (and it'll be a long time till to get get pass the thought of AIDS. The OM's wifes is crazy and has made threats. If there is a button to push life is finding them right now for her.<P> I do love her and I do believe she loves me. I think it is just the combination of the affair, her modes, the lack of affection I get, that brings me down. <P> I feel like a fool but I'm committed to making this work. I just wish I could get over this feeling of what a stupid fool I must be.

Getting_Better,<P>You're not a fool... and you <B>are</B> Getting_Better!<P>Try and leave a little more of your hurt at God's feet... He can handle it better.<P>Strength to you... <P>Jim

You know why we beat our heads against the wall .........<P>Because it feels so good when we stop.<P>Thanks NSR, I know your right but it's a lot easier to say then to live. I felt great after talking to her this morning when I left the house but by the time I got to work 2 plus 2 was adding up to 3 again.<P>