For those of you who don't know my story, my H had a brief affair, little over a year ago. Affair ended upon discovery with OW still trying to get my H, as late as last November (9 months later!)<P>Although recovery is okay (counseling, books, etc.), with the bumps along the road, I still feel much resentment. I can't get past the lying, deceit, betrayal.<P>I think about how lousy & cruel my H treated me when he was drinking & involved in his affair; and then I question myself as to why I am still here.<P>He's made a turn-around but this trauma has made me feel somewhat cold and afraid to be vulnerable again.<P>My H is doing all the right things. He's affectionate, considerate, etc, but why do I feel this way?<P>I can't give 100% of myself.<P>I don't even know if I want to stay in this marriage anymore. Can anyone help?<P>p.s. I just won on Ebay, the book, "After the Affair." I'm hoping it will explain why I am feeling this way 'cause I don't know what the heck is going on with me.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited March 17, 2000).]

NoTrust<BR>I found some good links a while back on PTSD.<BR>I'll try to find them. They are very helpful.<BR>I have flashbacks (iccky), nightmares, panic attacks.<BR>But I'm getting there by accepting that it will take time. I may have to go through it for a while yet.<BR> I also started taking a natural necter. Noni juice. One ounce a day and it seems to be helping physically and mentally.<BR>You know I know what you are going through.<BR>You are in my prayers. <BR>I'll try to find that link.<P>Slow down, take care of yourself. Don't expect too much. <P>

NoTrust,<BR> I know the feeling.Even though some people tend to downplay infidelity("Just get over it"),it's not that easy.My regular doctor told me it's about the most tramatic,cruelest thing a person can experience.His brother's been through it twice.Before my W's affair,when I heard someone's spouse had cheated on them,I,too,thought"Hey,dump'em and get on with your life".But even when your spouse leaves you and you don't have to see them as a reminder,it puts a pain on you that is very slow to go away.Yes,I would definately call it Post-Dramatic Stress Disorder.My W left me over a year ago,and I still have nightmares,and short nights.You're not going to give 100%.It takes a long time to trust again,if ever.I guess all you can do right now is go through the motions,and perhaps time will help heal you.Maybe you feel your H is only acting this way because he doesn't want you to leave,not because he's remorseful.Could that be part of the problem?After the Affair is a really good book.It will help you understand what you're feeling.Take care. --Murph

NoTrust<P>I know exactly what you are going through! It has been 18 months and I feel exactly as you do - I'm not sure I even want to be here and I can't even imagine ever trusting him again. He is being wonderful to me, but somehow, it's just too little too late after all that's happened. There are times when I am absolutely sickened by the thoughts of his A. I haven't felt good about myself for so long, that I'm wondering if it's possible at all while we are together. I just can't seeem to get rid of the resentment no matter how hard I try. I am so sick of the lies for so long that I just find it hard to find the truth any longer.

It's natural to not trust your S after they had an affair. It will take time, a <B>lot</B> of time to regain the trust. <P>I don't like to say this (I feel like it's said to often) but maybe meds can help. Sometimes it's hard to separate the lack of trust from the depression. I don't know if they can be separated. <P>Infidelity is kind of like a death in the family. The old marriage has died. It's hard to replace it with a new marriage. That's basicly what is happening, your building a new marriage with the old Spouse. <P>Even when you think you're finally getting past it, along comes a "trigger" and you feel it fresh again. Then you have to get over it again.<P>The pain will fade as the old memories are replaced with fresh happy memories.<P>Wouldn't it be great if we could all start the new marriage with a new wedding, honeymoon, and a clean slate?<P>Just my thoughts... <P>Keo

<A HREF="http://www.successunlimited.co.uk/PTSD/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.successunlimited.co.uk/PTSD/</A> <P>I think what you are feeling is normal. I think time is the answer - and learning how to deal with loss. There is a genuine loss in the marriage. Things are never the same. <P>But, that doesn't mean that it can't be better. Learn to do some things for you, learn to love you more, learn to find happiness from within. It helps the coping process in recovering from the loss.<P>TNT

The diagnostic criteria for PTSD are defined in DSM-IV as follows:<P>A. The person experiences a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:<P>1. the person experienced or witnessed or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others;<BR>2. the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror.<P>B. The traumatic event is persistently re-experienced in any of the following ways:<P>1. recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts or perceptions;<BR>2. recurrent distressing dreams of the event;<BR>3. acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (eg reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those on wakening or when intoxicated);<BR>4. intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolise or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event;<BR>5. physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolise or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.<P>C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma) as indicated by at least three of:<P>1. efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings or conversations associated with the trauma;<BR>2. efforts to avoid activities, places or people that arouse recollections of this trauma;<BR>3. inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma;<BR>4. markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities;<BR>5. feeling of detachment or estrangement from others;<BR>6. restricted range of affect (eg unable to have loving feelings);<BR>7. sense of a foreshortened future (eg does not expect to have a career, marriage, children or a normal life span).<P>D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma) as indicated by at least two of the following:<P>1. difficulty falling or staying asleep;<BR>2. irritability or outbursts of anger;<BR>3. difficulty concentrating;<BR>4. hypervigilance;<BR>5. exaggerated startle response.<P>E. The symptoms on Criteria B, C and D last for more than one month.<P>F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.<P>The focus of PTSD is a single life-threatening event or threat to integrity. However, the symptoms also arise from an accumulation of small incidents rather than one major incident. Examples include: <P>repeated exposure to horrific scenes at accidents or fires, such as those endured by members of the emergency services (eg bodies mutilated in car crashes, or horribly burnt or disfigured by fire, or dismembered or disembowelled in aeroplane disasters, etc) <BR>repeated involvement in dealing with serious crime, eg where violence has been used and especially where children are hurt <BR>breaking news of bereavement caused by accident or violence, especially if children are involved <BR>repeated violations such as in verbal abuse, physical abuse and sexual abuse <BR>regular intrusion and violation, both physical and psychological, as in bullying, stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc <BR>Where the symptoms are the result of a series of events, the term Prolonged Duress Stress Disorder (PDSD) may be more appropriate. Whilst this is not yet an official diagnosis in DSM-IV or ICD-10, it is often used in preference to other terms such as "rolling PTSD" and "cumulative stress".<BR>

Thanks everyone for your replies.<P>Wassi: Did you find those website links yet for PTSD? I do think I have that problem. I know that time will help things fade away, but those triggers sure don't help.<P>Murphy: I'm sorry that your W left. Is there hope for a reunion or reconciliation? I'm hoping that the book, "After the Affair" will help explain why I feel the way I do. This is so confusing for me.<P>Apprehensive: My H used to not lie to me, but when he got involved in his affair, he certainly became an expert liar. Now, I don't know when he is telling me the truth or not. I know that I will never be able to completely trust him ever again. This sucks.<P>Keo: You are absolutely right. It's like the old marriage dying. I guess I am still in the grieving process. I wish that all of last year would just erase away. It would be nice to have a clean clear slate to start all over again. But, that will never be.<P>TNT: Thank you for the definition of PTSD. I do fit in some of that criteria. I know that time will be the answer, but I wonder how much time?

I was where you're at, for a long long time. I wish now that I had read Harley's articles at the time about emotional needs, and I would have stopped a big part of all my questioning, harassing, demanding compensation, and withdrawing love from my husband. I thought he was all to blame for what had happened. When I finally came around and decided to work on the marriage and not keep packing my suitcase, it was too late for him (although I'm still hoping he'll give me another chance - he left the house four days ago). Before it's too late, if you still love him, then fight for your marriage, and instead of focusing on resentment, please focus on your family and how to keep it together. For now, just be happy that you're still together. I know that was what I should have done, I would have wished I had done.

Hi ls12:<P>First of all, thanks for responding. I'm so sorry to hear that your H left. I hope that it is not too late for recovery. I will keep you in my thoughts.<P>As for me, my H & I are working it out but I still harbor resentment inside of me. As far as my H is concerned, he thinks that all is well. I guess because I try hard not to show it. I don't want to Lovebust.<P>He is now comfortable with how things are, but deep inside of me, I am still not content. I wonder if I ever will be?<P>I now look at this man, who has become how he used to be, a good father & husband (and also without the alcohol which is nice)....but I think about what he is CAPABLE of doing to me also.<P>Just like many betrayed here, I never thought that my H would do the cruel things that he did to me & the kids. Boy was I a fool to think that our marriage was above that.<P>So...here I am with the resentment still inside of me. I just hope that I don't explode and lovebust. I hope that the OW doesn't make her surprise contact again and try to interfere with our recovery.<P>I'm trying to focus on "the present," but it's very hard to forget the devastation of last year.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited March 21, 2000).]

NoTrust<P>As I was searching for the links I stumbled onto the following one:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.patiencepress.com/store-freestuff.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.patiencepress.com/store-freestuff.html</A> <P>I found some very interesting info in Issue 1 of the Post-Traumatic Gazzette.<BR>You might want to check it out.<BR>What I found most interesting is that it seems to focus on the fact that PTSD is much more common than people admit and that too often we deny it's existance instead of dealing with it.<BR>

I know just how you feel. For me this nightmare only started a couple of weeks ago and I am so sad for you that you still feel what I am feeling now. <P>As a Christian I believe that true joy comes from God and you can have that even when life is "unhappy". But that is impossible for me to achieve right now. <P>My three year old told me today that he dreamed last night that everyone was sad. I hate myself for imparting that to my children.

So this is what has been happening to me!!!<BR>I can't even read TrustinTruth's post right now. I need to go take a pill and a shower..<BR>and calm down a little bit. Please keep this open and at the top. I think I need to talk about it....or some help or prayer or something. How do I talk to my husband about this problem....especially about events that have been truamatic for me? <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Psalm 42

Wassi: Thank you for sending me that website. I will check it out.<P>Dead Inside & CJB: Thanks for responding to my post. It is the pits to feel this way. Hopefully, these weird & strange feelings will subside soon. I can't even imagine living the rest of my life feeling this way.

NoTrust,<P> It was that long along when my wife, who had the affair, was supportive, loving and there for me. I loved it, true it wasn't perfect but I wish I was back there.<P> It takes time, take your husbands support and use it! He was the one that had the affair by his own choice. He owes you that support and comfort. I think I tried to more beyond that point to fast and have found myself back at what seems like square one.<P> What I find holds me back is the memories of the affair. The memories seemed to come back as I tried to move forward. I was pushing ahead and I think pushing her away. Without her support I find myself close to the state you discribed.<P> If he will give you the support TAKE IT, try and lower your guard A LITLLE and step by step maybe you will progress.<P> I'll be praying for you.<BR>

Getting Better,<P>Thank you for your reply. Maybe I feel so confused because everything happenned so fast.<P>The affair was brief, and we started recovery immediately upon discovery. I'm glad that trying to work on our marriage was immediate, but it still pisses me off that he risked our 8 year relationship and everything that we have together for this meaningless, less than 2 month fling/easy roll in the sack.<P>Now I'm supposed to pick up the pieces and act like I'm still not mad about this???<P>Things are happenning so fast. Even the recovery place where we are now at came quickly.<P>Maybe I am just overwhelmed with so much on my plate right now, that I can't even believe all of that awful stuff even happenned to me.<P>My H acts like nothing happenned, but I also don't want him to forget what happenned. I'm sure he won't ever forget, but I can't keep bringing it up either. That would be one huge Lovebust.<P>I better go for now. I don't even know what I talking about! Thanks again for taking the time to read and answer my post.

No Trust,<P><BR> Don't you just love it when you get this "It was nothing" (Yea right, it was nothing but I didn't rate for $hit well it was going on) or the they understand (I hear that and the other thing that goes thugh my mind is "I'll get you understand"). I love the way they seem to get over so fast, After all it was them that had fun. <P> All of these hurt and they hurt deeply. I changed jobs and now work with a perfect view of a place where my wife said she was a my absolute deepest bottom. The worst day of my life that I'll ever had she said she was there. I now sit with the window at my back. The doctor added a second anti-depressent to help me cope with it.<P> My life right now is up then down, it can even be up and bottom at the same time. Hang in there it does get better I promise. Gotta go but I'll be back soon.

I'm back. After reading my own post it looks like it is more sensetive then I thought it actually was but I think you can get my drift.<P> It may sound strange coming from me but I honestly believe the betrayer does end up feeling bad. I'm sure your husband does feel badly about what happened. It really does seem that those that betray are temporaryly insane. The OM in my case now disgusts my wife and I believe here when something happens that brings it back up.<P> The biggest point I wanted to make is that it does get better. It will take both of you making an honest effort to it. I thin my wife is still trying to punish me for the early part of our marriage. This is by no means the way to go. All she has done is to get me thinking it is time to move on.<P> He needs to understand your pain and he needs to help you. He needs to provide you whatever support you need. At the same time you need to try and put this out of your head. You need to lower those walls somewhat. None of this is easy and it is hard to set yourself up to be hurt again but thing about this<P>WHAT IS THE WORST THAT HAPPEN. YOUR ALREADY HURTING, YOU ALREADY FEEL LIKE $HIT.<P>Talk,Talk,Talk to each other amd help each other. If you can do this you'll end up building a much better relationship then you before all this juke started.<P>Good Luck

Getting Better,<P>I'm rambling, so be prepared...<P>My H told me, "It didn't mean anything. I don't even remember what sex was like with her. I was too drunk. If anyone were to know that I were with her, they wouldn't even believe it. She reminds me more of a man than a woman. She's not even attractive."<P>I'm here thinking....he wasn't too drunk to find his way over to her house and sleep with her 4 times. He wasn't drunk when he stole our family money and had flowers sent to her on Valentine's Day and then a $50 gift certificate sent to her when it was her birthday last year.<P>If it doesn't mean anything...then why buy her gifts, have a relationship with her and risk all for his so-called nothing.<P>Weird thing....he says that he barely knows anything about her. This OW acts like she is in love with my H. But then again, she is a former battered wife. Maybe she clings to anyone who is there.<P>It just bugs me that she made contact again after months of absence. I thought she was totally out of the picture. I keep imagining that she might pop her ugly head out again any day now.<P>For the betrayers who say that those OP mean nothing to them...<BR>Why do our spouses do this? If who they have the affair with, doesn't mean anything to them? Why have total disregard for your marriage and risk your marriage for something that doesn't mean anything anyway??? It just doesn't make sense.<P>If she didn't mean anything to him...then I don't understand the gift giving...

NoTrust,<P> I have always been as faithful as the familty dog in every relationship I ever had. I don't know what it is like to have an affair but I am also human and a male in a sexless marriage right now so let me offer some opinions. I don't know if your husband feels this, I don't agree that some of what I feel is right. I don't think I make a very good example of a husband but I do know I have never acted on any of these thoughts.<P><BR> The statement <P>"It didn't mean anything. I don't even remember what sex was like with her. I was too drunk. If anyone were to know that I were with her, they wouldn't even believe it. She reminds me more of a man than a woman. She's not even attractive."<P>I can actually understand and I can honestly believe it to be true BUT I WOULD STILL LOVE TO HIT HIM FOR IT. In my life at this point in time if it has legs it better be careful and this does include my dogs. I think All males are "Pigs" it's just that some of us keep this pig to our selfs.<P>Your nest part<P>I'm here thinking....he wasn't too drunk to find his way over to her house and sleep with her 4 times. He wasn't drunk when he stole our family money and had flowers sent to her on Valentine's Day and then a $50 gift certificate sent to her when it was her birthday last year.<P> My wife did similar things to me. I remember bring her coke for drinks and it was for the two of them. Many was the time I was home keep up that end and she was out with him. She told me at one point that they "look into each others eyes and went for it" (KILL KILL KILL). I could go on and on. To day she can't understand what was wrong with her. I have found that in my life 2+2=3 and this does seem to be true. My reality is only an illusion.<P> I'm rambling now but my point is this. IT HURTS, IT STILL HURTS. A few weeks ago I bought up the issue of sex and told her I had a problem with she would go to bed with this OM on a weekly basis because "Well that was only as often as they could get together". I think this may have been a mistake but it was eating me up.<P> Ramble, ramble, ramble, It's a sign of just how much we are hurting. <P> The bottom line is that reguardless of how screwed up my life is right now I honestly think that if you could let some of the pain fall to the side and move on rebuilding your marriage I think you can start making life better.<P> About the middle of Jan in the counsoler's office I got blasted by the statement that "Maybe I still have feelings for him". Besides knocking me for a loop and running my heart thought the grinder one more time, I was at a lost for where it came from what was going on or even what day it was.<P> Now, here is a good point to remember. First, my wife is honest with me she will open up to me (I just can't dig to deep or she'll clam up if she is not ready). After a day or two of shock I started to attack this problem and start talking to her. We picked apart these feelings to determine what they ready are. I had to work, I had to carefully dig and I had to suffer thought some really ugly things (Swimming in an out house would have been moer enjoyable). We finally piece it apart and came up with that what she really loved is the feelings she was experiencing and that these feelings could come from anyone. She was able to see that she really didn't have any feelings for him. What she really wanted was to get those feelings from me and she wanted thoese feelings to come from me before any of this started.<P> Those involved in an affair do seem to be missing something. This lost seems to have build up into some huge desire and the OP will fill this hence this is actually all it is (it didn't settle my stomach either but now you know who your emeny really is).<P> It's hard to face and I hard to say it but you have failed to fill some of his needs and the OW did. When your husband married you he picked you because you filled everything he needed. Some how this got lost. If you can find this you can rebuild a relationship better then the day you got married.<P> It's not easy but I have had a taste of this and IT'S GREAT <BR>If you two are going to make it though this mess your marriage is going to have to grow. You will have to learn to be exactly what each other needs. You will learn to communicate like never before.<P> It's hard but try and focus on today and the future. YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST SO DROP IT AND MOVE ON.<BR>