Okay, this is a crazy question, but here goes...<BR> <BR>A friend of mine has a H that sometimes goes to strip clubs and has lap dances. In fact, my friend will give her H the money for lap dances. The strippers who do these lap dances are entirely nude.<P>My friend knows about my H's affair (I confided in her). She made a comment to me, "The reason why my H doesn't cheat is because I allow him to go to strip clubs and have lap dances."<P>Now, this sounds ridiculous to me. I don't believe that allowing a spouse to have lap dances prevents him from cheating.<P>Thank goodness my own H isn't interested in strip clubs.<P>But, what I'm curious to know...are lap dances considered cheating?

Hi NoTrust,<P>I don't know if it is actually cheating or not, but I don't believe that it would stop a H from cheating. If anything, it might give them more of an opportunity to cheat. <P>I personally would feel somewhat cheated on if my H was going to strip clubs. I guess it depends on ones own beliefs of what cheating consists of.<P>I'm not much help, am I? <P>Tulip

I don't know if its cheating either. I guess thats depends upon how someone defines cheating. <P>It is very disrespectful to the spouse IMO.<P>Bob

I'm a male who never cheated and is a faithful little puppy dog but you can best believe that unless the girl is drop dead UGLY a lap dance is arousing. No I don't think it is cheating but if you gave me the keys to a sports you best believe the temptation to drive would be very high.<P> Now on the other you have the question of stage parties. In this case it is done to embress the growm and I wouldn't concider it cheating in any way shape or manner.<P> Double standards are great aren't they.<BR>

She's assuming that all affairs are about sex. Boy, is she in for a rude awakening if her H becomes emotionally involved with someone else AND she's been encouraging him to go to strip clubs all these years. <P>Now, I believe that men go to strip clubs because it makes them feel powerful and wanted by women. Hey, never mind that they are paying for that attention. I think porn and strip clubs tend to objectify women, which doesn't lead to respect in a relationship. I think it is only a matter of time before he cheats on her.<P>My first husband went to strip clubs all the time, subscribed to Playboy, etc. I used to even buy them for him. Well, I later found out that he had cheated on me with over 20 women. <P>Now, I wouldn't date or even knowingly associate with men who do either one. Even stuff like Sports Illustrated is kind of the watered down version of Playboy. Guys who check out other women while they are with you? No matter how surreptiously they try to do it? They are out too. IMO, this stuff won't stop unless women stop letting their boyfriends/husbands think it is acceptable. <BR>No double standard for me. <P>To answer your question, he is not technically cheating if his wife gives him permission. What is screwed up is his wife's assumption that strip joints keep men from cheating. I think the opposite tends to be the truth more often because it leads to disrespect. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited March 24, 2000).]

Hey, I'm with the Student on this.<P>Some will come back that men are visual...blah blah blah.<P>It is disrespectful and dangerous to a relationship.<P>My own clueless H used to go along with peer pressure if someone in a group of guys wanted to go. (OK I could be naive, but I honestly don't think this was his thing, not that he didn't enjoy it)<P>This summer, when he willingly told me where he had been with from old pre-marriage friends he sees very rarely, we calmly discussed all of this.<P>He agreed with me. He also said he would be ashamed if anybody he respected (Dad, church people, coworkers) would see him. He would especially hate the message it would send to his daughters.<P>He promiced he would never step foot in such a bar again. <P>He just had never been confronted nor had "thunk" about it quite that way. Duh<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

The Student has a good point about emotional affairs. This is where is starts and it was the last part to die with my wife.<P> I remember a time when my son got in trouble at school and she went out that night to see him. Only to talk but that night hurt and still hurts more then any number of times they screwed around.<P> I'm a guy and if I where you ladies out there I wouldn't stand for topless or whatever bars expect for the one RARE case I told you about. I believe that once any of these activities becomes anywhere near normal there is a problem someplace and it needs to be fixed before it becomes major.<P>

Your friend is really fooling herself! Strip clubs and lap dances aren't good insurance against affairs if that's what she thinks she's "buying" for her relationship

Everyone is giving great responses. I feel the same way as you all do.<P>I think that my friend doesn't understand. She DOES think that affairs are all about sex. That is obvious.<P>She told me that comment about a year ago, after I confided in her, my H's affair. Her comment has always bothered me.<P>I really don't believe that getting lap dances prevents a spouse from cheating. I wouldn't even want my H to step foot in a strip club! I don't even want him attending a bachelor party. Is that out of line?<P>Anyway, my friend is the type right now that thinks "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and "Once my spouse cheats on me, that's it...he's out the door. Forget the marriage of 14 years and the 2 kids....he's out the door!"<P>It really is amazing how a person can change their views on things once it actually happens to them.<P>Oops! I'm rambling off the topic again. Sorry! Anyway, thanks all for responding. This is really interesting to see your views on this.

As far as bachelor parties are concerned. The ones I have been to are gear towards embressing the groom. For some reason, at least with me, they are far from sexual, they don't arouse me, they are actually funny. I have found it almost a comidy in setting up the groom for something. <P> I can't say all bachelor parties are this way but the ones I have been to for some reason become different. I think it comes from the fact that even though the room have have a dosen nude woman you find yourself to busy messing with the groom to care.

<BR>NoTrust,<P>Read Pittman's book. Infidelity needs to be defined by the spouses within the marriage. He mentions swingers as an example. These people have extra-marital sex all the time. The constraint, for many swingers, is that both spouses have to be present for the extramarital sex to be legitimate. Yet these same swingers will become furious if a spouse later returned to have extramarital sex (with the same other person) when the other spouse isn't present. This is an infidelity to many swingers. Yeah, *I* happen to think its pretty strange, but its how *they* define infidelity that counts.<P>Bystander

Ooooooh, this subject again which I find fascinating (since my H is a bartender IN a strip club).<P>I don't think allowing, or NOT allowing, strip dances is any insurance against infidelity. I also agree that if this becomes a regular occurrence it's a habit that spells t-r-o-u-b-l-e SOMEwhere in the making, be that infidelity, or lovebusting in some other way.<P>Since my H works in a strip club, that's the kind of entertainment he tends to NOT want on his off-time. However, we both have gone to strip clubs together a few times. I sit there checking out the clothes the strippers wear and wonder why it's called dancing. H sits there checking out the bar layout and the lighting and sound system for when we're able to open our own bar someday (not a strip club!). Sounds real arousing, doesn't it, lol. <P>At the club where he works, I've met a seemingly nice man who hangs out there a lot. He has a good job, is proud of his kids and will show off their pictures. His W calls him at the club to have him bring home a gallon of milk. H says he usually sits at the bar talking to him and other regulars. I guess it's his "Cheers."<P>On the other hand, my H told me of a recent occurrence--a woman came in unescorted and sat at a table, obviously upset and angry, taking in everything. The manager eventually asked her if everything was okay and she admitted she was there to confront her H when he arrived. A volatile situation-to-be; she was asked to leave.<P>I make no judgements about swingers. I do, however, see the logic in a swinger's viewpoint that playing with a previous player solo, when the couple's rule is never alone, is a form of unacceptable infidelity.

Bringing this up to the top.

My second H did not have a "traditional" bachelor party. He did know my views about it beforehand, because I had told him what my first H did, and how it made me feel. I never told my second H he couldn't go, because if he really wanted to, he could do it without my permission. I did let him know there would be consequences however. <P>I told him after we were married that if he had decided to go to a strip joint for his bachelor party, I would have cancelled the wedding. Some might think that is not fair, to tell him the consequences after the fact, but I honestly wanted to see what he would do. He already knew I didn't like it. That was enough information for him to choose otherwise. He did, and we got married. <P>When his brother got married, my second ex was the best man. All of his brother's friends made it clear in no uncertain terms that they wanted to go to a strip joint. My H went with them, but did not pay for anything. No lap dances, tips, whatever. His brother's friends were mad at him, but oh well.<P>The way I look at it, if the guy thinks he's missing out on something by getting married and has to go gawk at a bunch of other women, he should not be getting married. <P>Oh, by the way, my ex's brother dumped his wife and kids last year. Hmmm.<P>FHL,<BR>You made a good point to your H about what he would tell his daughters. One guy at work asked me what I considered sexual harrassment. I said "If you'd feel uncomfortable saying or doing this thing to your mom, sister, daughter, or wife, it is probably inappropriate." It is pretty easy for men to rationalize porn and strip joints as long as it isn't their wife or their daughter doing it.

Wow....everyone's input is really interesting and appreciated.<P>It is interesting about swingers.<P>I guess they could apply the POJA here....you can swing as long as you swing together...but then, if you go solo, then it is infidelity....So strange!<P>Just like POJA, both have to agree for it to be okay.<P>So, in conclusion, I suppose it meants that when a spouse condones the behavior, then it isn't considered cheating.<P>It's all in what the married couple considers infidelity??<P>Wow...what an interesting topic!

Hi,<P>If all my H wanted was to go to strip clubs and get a lap dance I guess I would be happy.<P>The affair he is in now is an emotional one and I don't thing those girls at the strip club can offer that to any man. Emotional affairs I feel are the most dangerous ones. I told him that if he just had some one night sex fling that it would be better, at least I think, for me to handle. I guess it just depends on how well you know your husband as far as his emotional or sexual needs go.

Bachelor parties are traditional and I suppose can be considered a male "right of passage." My basic thoughts on it are they're okay, but I can certainly think of things that might happen AT a bachelor party that would upset me. Look at how contrary I am, lol.<P>Just to add to the discussion here, how about the reverse...what are your feelings on male strippers?<P>Years ago, I saw the Chippendales. Loved it. Beautiful men, great music, and an overall sensuality in the air. I'm not interested in copping a feel on strange men, the visual is nice enough/thank you, so I was particularly pleased with the professionalism of the show. Those Chippendales, class act, at least then. Couldn't tell you what they do these days.<P>An all-male review (different bunch) came to town a couple of years ago. I was in new relationship with current H. He had objections. He wanted to know why only women were allowed to attend...not that he personally had interest in seeing guys strip and tease, but if it was something I wanted to see why couldn't he escort me; couples are welcome at female strip clubs. <P>This particular bar had an adjoining section where the guys could amuse themselves while the women were enjoying the show separately. We finally decided to skip the show (and decisions around it) and arrive afterwards to spend time with our friends. Wasn't a big deal to me and soothed H.<P>My H is a bartender in a strip club now. (Have I repeated myself enough on this fact to bore the regulars yet? Thanks for listening!) Yes, it's his job, he's busy behind the bar. I hear people when they say he has no contact per se with the strippers, he's actually "safer" from attempted flirtations there than at a regular bar. And yes, I sometimes still have problems with it. Go figure. <P>However, H does have a point about the differences in female and male strip shows. Female strip club rules--the men are not allowed to touch. They can even be ordered to sit on their hands so assuredly touching does NOT occur. During a male review (with the exception of those gorgeous Chippendales of days gone by), the women are allowed total hands-on and this is even encouraged.<P>I did see a male review a couple of months ago. I think I was in "a mood"--ok, H, dare you to say you have a problem with this! While in line, we women discussed why our men weren't able to come WITH us...one woman summed it up. There would be that one jealous H who starts a fist fight. I think she's probably right.<BR>

Anyone else have comments on this thread?