Mercy<P>Thanks for your reply in my other thread asking betrayers for their thoughts. You offered to answer more questions if I had any about what you wrote and I do. Hope it's still okay to ask!<P>You had written "I hate to be the one to make suspicions but it almost sounds like he is still in contact. I mean the even steven of his attitude. I could be wrong, but keep your eyes open."<P>I, too, thought the same thing but I know for me it is purely paranoia. I have been in contact (frequent) with the OW, frankly being a b*#$! to her for what she did to our lives, her's included, and she has yet to say anything about him contacting her. Believe me, I've made her so angry and she has said some pretty horrible things. Frankly, I'm surprised she hasn't said "yes he has called" just to anger me! But she doesn't say anything except that he hasn't called, along with numerous other ugly remarks.<P>H is going to counseling, has moved out against his wishes, is keeping in closes contact, frequently asking what more he can do to help me, thoroughly answers all questions I have, in the six weeks since D-Day he has only been ugly with me once and then turned around and apologized, takes off work to go to counseling when necessary, rearranges his evening work hours to attend counseling, will come over at a moment's notice if I call saying I need him. Never refuses to answer questions and is keeping his answers consistent with what has been previously said. Has explained his feelings for her, the why's and the how's and the parts that don't even make sense, also has told me the things he is in doubt of concerning their relationship. He seems to be very VERY open with me about her and his feelings.<P>Perhaps I should have included all of this in my other post to give a more accurate description when asking that question about his behavior. Having shared this with you now, however, would you still cast suspicion on his behavior? If so, why? What clues are you aware of, having walked a mile in these shoes, that I am not?<P>I really appreciate your having shared your gut feeling here. No doubt you were not completely comfortable doing so and don't worry, I will not judge and convict him based on your thoughts but rather my own evidence regarding the situation. So please share with me your opinion.<P>Thanks so much for your help Mercy. I do appreciate it! Best of luck to you in your efforts.<P><BR>

Perhaps all is well then. He sounds dedicated to your marriage at this time! I know that when my H said he had contacted a counselor, I freakded out! All along i had agree'd with everyone that couseling was definetly in order. But when it actually came down to it, I didn't want to give up OM. and be honest. So..<P>I would say you have a good beginning. Sorry for any blunt talk <P>I guess I used to believe that a person who had had an affair, once guilty and convicted, would never do it again. But, I have 3 times(same man). So, I may be overly suspicious. But, becasue i have done what i have done, no one could get away with doing it. I would know the signs.<P>Good Luck,<BR>Mercy

Mercy<P>Hope you come back to read some more on this thread...what kinds of signs are you aware of? I ask because 2 years ago this affair was beginning and I knew it, confronted the two of them, and completely had the wool pulled over my eyes by them both.<P>Even using hindsight, I really don't know what I could or should have done differently than what I did to protect myself and keep the truth out in the open. I can't say that I was naive or blind but much moreso, the two of them were great liars.<P>I had my suspicions that H wasn't happy but I never dreamed it was becasue of another woman, much less the very same woman from two years ago.<P>Admittedly, I'm frightened and would really like to know what to watch out for. I know better than to trust him right now and he is getting into a really terrible state in that he is really starting to feel the withdrawal. He told me he is feeling grumpy, growling at his subordinates, and some things he just doesn't feel up to dealing with, like parent/teacher meetings. So his life is getting really hard right now and he may crash and burn..but what signs do I need to watch for? <P>Your advice would really be most helpful. I'm not so much afraid of him betraying me again as much as I am of him betraying me and hiding it from me again, setting me up to think life is wonderful between us when really it's all a con job. <P>On a much more personal note for you, why is it that you can't break your addiction to this OM? <P>Thanks ever so much for your help!

Ummm, what to say what to do?<P><BR>In my own life dealings. The grumpier i was the less contact i had with OM. I would relieve my attitude by contacting OM. He would know just what to say, I am big on laughter. Make me laugh all is well. (one of the things that did attract me). But, I also was very very short with my kids and my H. Quite nasty infact. H told me yesterday, that if i hadn't come to this decision, he was going to make one for me, I was going to have to leave. He told this to me after I made it clear I was ready to work on this marriage.<P>Signs to look for would definetly a sudden change in attitude. Usually a very sudden switch from bad to good. Helpful. But it is pretty sudden. Probably made contact.<P>I would think(from my own experiences) unexplainable absenses from work and home. Sudden trips to the store(alone). Unexplainable money loss, days off of work ect. I could think of a million legite reasons to get into town without H. But, when i think of it now, they were pretty obvious. <P>I also had the first affair 2 years ago, and it was rekindled 3 months ago. I tried to convince myself as well as the H that i was over this OM. I worked so hard to get over him. I tried extra hard to be affectionate, loving, do what ever I could for my H. I went to church faithfully. Gosh i really tried. Then the fateful day of him stopping to talk to me, made me realize I was still in hot water where he was concerned. So, I want to say that if he really doesn't work through the feelings and be totally honest with you and most importantly himself about what is going on i am afraid it could happen again.<P>I also could not deal with my children. I made my H deal with all disipline, meetings daycare ect. It was just too much for my head to process. My head was so full, stuff was starting to spill out. Anger, resentment, hate, meanness. That was the result of living two lives.<P>Now that I have made the decision to not have contact, I feel very able to deal with my family around me. I am stll a little touchy but not spastic. <P>Is any of this helpful? I will continue to think of more signs. I will ask my H what were the clues that i was still in contact or thinking of going for it again.<P>As for what is that addiction for the OM? Now that my head is a bit clearer, right now I would have to say it is entirely sexual. My H and I have some real issues in this area and the OM was able to fix those issues up for me(us together).<P>I do not know if this area will always be a problem but I know that I had to cut off all activitie between my H and I because, everytime we made love, it was the OM I was doing it with. That was absolutely unfair. I also felt so guilty becasue sex is not that enjoyable with the H. It hasn't been in about 6.5 years. <P>I will keep an eye on this thread! Keep in touch!<BR>mercy <P>

MY H said, that my attitude is the biggest give away to the contact issue. He also did not have the ability to visit with me becasue i was so defensive.(not that i realized it!) He couldn't visit with me about my day. AT ALL. SOOO, there it is. all in the attitude. I was a pretty good liar too, he had no idea that the relationship had rekindled. But time does tell. You can only live for so long in a tub of lies before you drown.<P>Mercy

Is there Hope?<P>Yes there is!! LOL! <BR>I do have one benefit here that a lot of you do not have. I AM MOVING!! That is very exciting for me in a lot of ways. But reality says I am sad too. I have made so many friends here, well known and liked in the community. I am very active in the schools with my kids, and I am going to miss everyone i know terribly. That is such a reminder to what i have done. But, it is a new start. <P>So off I go to clean up for tonight. It is date night for us. DANCING! We love to dance. <P>I didn't realize it is only 2:30 here. OOPPS I got excited. What a nice feeling to be excited about dating your husband. KEWL!<P>Mercy

Mercy<P>Thanks for the tips...and your H,too. I do appreciate it. You are really kind to share this with me and I can't thank you enough.<P>I'm thrilled by your enthusiasm! Have a great time dancing. I hope my H will eventually have the same kind of joy once he comes around. That would be a dream come true. I would imagine your H is relieved! <P>Now what is this about moving? Sounds like you mean physically and not metaphorically speaking. Is this a result of the affair and not being able to really stay away from him simply because of geography?<P>Enjoy your night out Mercy. This is really wonderful. It just goes to show, prayers really do get answered!<P>Have a great night!

all of the above. Yes, the biggest decision maker was because I couldn't stay away. BUt also because we did find a job that pays more, health insurance, better hours and paid vacation ect. And a better college.<P>You would have to understand where I live to understand the decision. I must drive by his house to get into town. I have no choice, so by driving by i relive everything we shared. I have no choice. OUr little town has very little in it. So, i see him everywhere. His daughter and My daughter and son are very good friends. Sooo, a move must be made.<P>My H is relieved by wairy. Time will only tell if I can keep it together. I know I can, I know i can, i know i can. <P>Thanks for the vote of confidence!<BR>Mercy

YES YOU CAN!<BR>YES YOU CAN!<BR>YES YOU CAN!<P>Mercy this is wonderful. Really, I can't wait until my H reaches the point you are at. YOu have so much to be proud of and with this chance to start over again, in a very real and tangible way, how very lucky you are indeed.<P>May I ask, how long has it been since your H discovered you had rekindled your relationship? I remember you said this was the third go-round with the same man in the course of 2 years...but how long has your H known about it this time?<P>Yes, of course his is weary of what may happen still but the good news is you've taken a very big step in the right direction. None of us knows what tomorrow will bring whether it's you betraying him or him betraying you! In all fairness, this is the truth. <P>I saw you had posted the letter you wrote. It is good. So I assume you must still go through giving it to him. THis is not behind you yet. Be strong! You can do it! You've managed to come this far Mercy. The best is just ahead!

Actually, He knew the night I came home. I had gone out for a ladies night out(for my birthday). When it was over for me, I wasn't guilty, but the minute i looked at him, I felt awful.<P>We went out on a Friday night. I told my H on Sunday. He told me I had to go. So we told the kids. I didn't realize who's lives I had devestated until then. They were so devestated. They are my life. They are really what has kept me here. But after all of this, I love my Husband. He is such a good man. <P>I know there is going to be hard times but since the H day(honesty day), i feel pretty strong. There hasn't been any contact in 4 days. None. So I feel strong. <P>I am going to give the letter if it is the last thing I do! It is over. The health and safety of my family is at stake. They (kids) deserve all the happiness they can have as kids, because life is not always happy as adults. <P>Today is going to be the beginning of move days. Lots to do. I will be lurking during rest periods. <P>Mercy

mercy<P>Try to mail the letter to him but don't give it to him directly yourself. You are on a roll here with 4 days, keep it going. Don't go back to zero!<P>My H just left the house and was open and honest with me about his thoughts which I'm finding difficulty with. He said that although he has decided to remain in this marriage that he can't help but sometimes think it would be better to divorce because he feels weakness for other women.<P>I tried to explain to him it is better to fix that which is broken than to change one' entire life because they don't bother to make repairs. He didn't seem to take that to heart. <P>In my guts, I think what the problem is, is that while he may think he loves me, he really isn't satisfied with just me. I even told him if he's in need of more/better sex, I'm willing! I told him that I'm tired of what we have between us cause it isn't quality at all and it needs some livening up. God knows I've tried but I'm sure you would agree, it takes two!<P>He said he thinks he may be feeling this way just because it is really hard for him right now, going through this withdrawal. Said he doesn't know why it is hard, said he doesn't know what it is about her that makes it hard...said he wasn't interested in the forum because he didn't think he could relate to "those people". I asked what made him think he was so special...betrayal is betrayal...he ain't the first and he won't be the last. He finally said he'd look but I don't expect that to go anywhere.<P>So my hopes are low once again. I did hound him a bit about not deciding for me what would make me happy. That seems to be what he is saying...that if he divorces me I would be happier. I told him let me make that decision. He said he wants me in his life and I told him that's where I want to be, too, and though I will be safer from him if we divorce, I will not accept his decision to divorce me if his only reason is because it will make me happy. I really emphasized that he is to focus on what will make him happy and obtaining that goal, not MY happiness...that is for ME to decide.<P>God help us all Mercy! Really!<BR>Thanks for sharing and may this move be the first day of the rest of your life...but I shall end as I began here...put the letter in the mail...NOW! ;-)

Would you believe I lost the entire page of stuff I just wrote? Got interupted and pushed the X instead of - to make it small! <P>Let me think here.<P>Maybe you could print some of the posts from some of the betrayers here for him. Let him read them at his leisure. He may see that it may help to vent to people he doesn't know.<P>Writing for me is a big healer. I write I converse. <P>Up until 4 days ago, I still wanted a divorce. NOW! But in no contact I find that I am not confused about what I want. I have confessed everything to my H. EVERYTHING! The sex addiction, the phone calls, the insecurities he help put there. Everything. I am sure it hurt, but it is helping heal.<P>I read in Torn Asunder, that if you do not fix what is wrong with one relationship, you will take it to another. Does that make sense? <P>I cannot remember, is he still living at home?(I get confuse reading so many posts <P>This is why I had said that he is probably still in contact. He seems awfully confused right now, to not be having any contact. BUT, in the withdrawal I suppose he could also have this problem. Now for me, I only felt the real confusion when I was in contact. <P>I feel like it is weird that I would feel so good about this decision. The only credit I can give is to God and my H and our church family.. My sister called this morning to say that God had said that the only way for her to heal form the damage of the abuse from my motehr is through HIm. She said that he told her she needed to share that will me. She had been praying to God to 'break her heart" for her kids and family. So that she can heal. My H and church family just prayed that for me and her last week. They had no idea she was praying the same thing. <P>So this tells me God is the healer here. I can make it with HIM. Period. I jsut have to quit letting the enemy win in my life. <P>I am going to mail the letter first thing tomorrow. I have it saved on my pc, so if he should not get it(like if he contacts me with no idea what is going on) then I will print another and my H said he would hand deliver it himself. So, now, to do the deed.<P>Give it more time. It will take the end of the affair perhaps to get him to see that You are the most important. Sometimes it takes a frying pan up side the head to see clearly. <P>I read that Plan A, only 6 months. Then to plan B. I think that your love cannot last forever if he is constantly stepping on it. But give it some time. Are you haveing any better days? Does it seem to be getting any better at all?<P>Fewer bad is good.<P>Mercy

Here is the stuff i thought I lost!<P><BR>I am today!<P>My H offered to self deliver the letter. But I am not too keen on the idea. Things could get out of hand. Not a good idea at this time.<P>I am going to mail it like I have always mailed stuff to him. He will get it I am sure. I just will not put a return address on it so they maybe have to deliver it. New rules bite, hard!<P>For a while, I had began to think that I had no place here. to read all the sorrow and pain in these posts. But what it did do for me was open my eyes to the pain. To try and make a decision. Not very many people posted to me for the longest time. I felt like I had intruded upon everyone here.<P>For me writing is a way to heal. As I read and resonded to the posts here, I found myself able to relate to a lot of stories. Maybe some of the stff I and others have told you in some posts, you could print off and give to him and tell him to read them at his leisure. <P>I felt up until 4 days ago, I was ready for a divorce. I could not choose between OM and the H. <P>lost ny train of thought <P>

Mercy your contributions to my thread here have been most helpful to me. It's funny to think that a betrayER could help out a betrayED as we are somewhat on opposite sides of the fence, right! ;-) But your insight has given me so much more than I could have hoped for and for this I thank you.<P>I believe that things that are bad happen for a reason. That there is a lesson to be learned. A good that can be found as a result. The wisdom you have gained by having lost yourself as you did has surely helped many others just like myself. <P>I'm sorry we are all here in this forum having to share as we are, but I'm so much more thankful to people like you Mercy who are able to open up and share what you have learned with someone like me who is still lost and trying to learn.<P>Thank you! <P>--I'm happy to read that your letter is being mailed today. I was reading about withdrawal to email it to my H so he could read it as well. I saw the part where Harley suggests what should be stated in the letter. Did you refer to this as you wrote yours? You seem to have followed perfectly. AS it turns out, the letter I scripted for my H to read over the telephone to the OW also followed his advice. Thankfully!

I didn't catch that you had two posts just now so now I must post again as well! LOL<P>My H is not at home. I asked him to move out and he did finally. It's been ten days now. He assured me just tonight that he has not made contact with her.<P>I think his confusion is becuase he is in a bit of a different situation. You see, he is not Christian. His religion allows for him to have more than one wife IF the first wife (me) gives consent. This OW is of the same religion as he and is more than willing to become the second wife, does not want him to divorce me but rather, she prefers to become a threesome. <P>He told her that he would not divorce me in order to marry her so if it ever became a problem their affair woudl have to end. Well, that is what is happening. H always knew I would never go along with this sick idea as did the OW as he has stated back in 97 that he wanted more than one woman in his life. I made him choose then but didn't know he was lying and would pull the wool over my eyes for the next 2+ years...until now.<P>I just emailed him about withdrawal and added that I've been through this struggle twice already with him. That now is my third round. That I wish he would do it just once, not for me, for himself. Because as you said, he's just going to take it, whatever it is, from one relationship to the next...and even if the OW is of the same faith as he, no woman will tolerate for very long a H who is unfaithful, despite her religion. <P>Anyway, I think this "option" due to religion is the reason he has confusion. Had we both been Christian it would have been a clear choice of either her or me but he has three choices...her, me or both. I'm the only obstacle that is stopping him from having it all.<P>He says he wants me in his life but on the other hand, still has thoughts popping up about it perhaps being better to divorce. Major ouch but at least he was honest so I'm giving him credit and don't think I LBed when he told me. <P>He said that the divorce thing is because he's afraid he will hurt me again...my thought being that he hasn't gone through the withdrawal yet, still feels the temptation, therefore cannot see into the future a life without temptation and defeat...and that by divorcing me, I will actually be happier. In short, I told him to keep focused only on what it is that he wants and I insisted that he stop deciding for me what will make me happy. (I won't bother you with the details, suffice it to say, he's done this most of our married life...decided what will make me happy then proceeds to follow through on the decision.)<P>I also told him I've been through this ordeal twice before with him already so this is why I still cry six weeks later at the dro of a hat. I know what lies before me and I know how hard it will be. But for him, he's never tried before. And now that it is getting hard, he's mulling over about quitting already. I told him if it is me he really feels he wants, than he must stay focused on his goal. If it is me he really wants, then he must allow me to choose what makes me happy and he must mind his own business.<P>He's really lost Mercy. But I have a feeling you can relate to this. <P>You mentioned God. He does work in mysterious ways Mercy. This is so true. You know, with all of the problems with my H, it has only been by the Grace of God that I have even found out about any of it! It's not been as if I'm so clever, but rather from out of the blue a crystal clear "clue" is in front of me and with little to no effort I've been able to confirm he has betrayed me. I even shared this awareness with him, that my finding out and him having to deal with it is obviously meant to be, it's clearly a part of God's plan...and it's HIS plan that we must all follow, not our own agenda. And until we conform to His wishes, ...as you pointed out...the problem will continue to follow us from one relationship to the next.<P>I'm from the Midwest (USA) and there is a phrase "**** Happens"...I'm sure you've heard of it...it does happen, for a reason...so that we learn. And until we learn what it is that He wants us to learn, it (****!) will keep on happening! Yes, we can run, but we can't hide!<P>For now I will take joy in your joy of having come to this moment in your life of knowing what it is you want. Given how far away my H is from having these same convictions as you, I can truly feel joy for you Mercy for I can well imagine how far you have come, the road you have traveled, and look forward to the path that you are on!

I am thinking.....<P>mercy