My W and I have been having a lot of good discussions lately. We have even discussed some things about the OM and how her feelings towards him have come about.<P>She still sees the OM as a "really good friend" who she now has feelings for. I don't think his intentions are as "admirable" as what she believes! The things she tells me that he says are:<P>1) "If you ever want to work on your marriage, tell me and I'll step out of the picture."<BR>2) "I would like nothing more than to see you work things out with your husband."<BR>3) "What we are doing is not right."<P>He says those things and then contradicts himself with his actions. If he knows what is going on is not right, why does he return her phone calls?!? Why does he invite my W and my daughter over to his house on a Friday afternoon, knowing full well that she will lie to me about where she is going?!? If he would like to see our marriage work, why doesn't he step out of the picture on his own? Why does he have to wait for my W to tell him?????<P>To the OP----<P>Do any of these things sound familar??? Is he just feeding her a line to sound caring?<P>Things like this just seems to "set the hook a little deeper." He is really playing mind games with her by saying one thing and then doing just the opposite.<P>Your thoughts on the matter and comments would be greatly appreciated (and needed)!<P>Doug<BR><P>------------------<BR>Don't give up...don't ever give up!" --Jimmy Valvano

There is one word for what he is doing...manipulation. This sounds so familiar that I am beginning to wonder if this behavior isn't typical of one of the WS. In my case I was given letters written to my H by OW where she professed her great love for HER H and how she could not leave him because of all that they shared and that she was not the person that my H thought she was or needed so she was going to get out of the relationship. Then she would turn around and say that she was making this huge sacrifice in doing this and how much she loved my H and always would and then would come the 'but'again as to how much she loved her H and family. Then she would hit him again with how this sacrificial love and devotion was what he was looking for when he found her and how she would never forget him and would come to him if ever she could...etc...from where I stand there is only one word for this...manipulation...my H walked into it willingly, but when someone is vulnerable and it seems like the OP is making these huge sacrifices for them, it just makes the OP look even better, because they already feel like the spouse has not or would not do that for them.<P> As things have progressed however, I think that my H is beginning to see that I am the one that has been devoted and sacrificing in not throwing him out of the house but continuing to love and support him through all this and letting him know that I will not just walk out on HIM even though he has hurt me greatly. But it is a very delicate situation, I can't just tell him 'look you idiot she is playing you for all you're worth' even if that is what I feel. So how do you deal with that situation? <P>I hope that eventually he will see it himself because that is the only way that he will believe it. It would be so helpful if there was someone else that could tell them 'look you are being manipulated big time', maybe then they would see what is going on, but until then I guess we have to keep on hoping that the OP will slip up and the game will be revealed.

My H's OW has said some of those very things to him. About not wanting to break up our marriage, blah, blah, blah, but then continuing to do so. I think she says those things so he will protest and say we had problems before they ever met, its not her fault, yadda, yadda, yadda. Then she doesn't have to feel like the piece of trash that she is. I think that's what some of it is about. I also think that while we are trying to keep our spouses, the OP is "pushing" them away. Guess where the WS ends up? With the OP. And they know this. They know the betrayed spouse is doing everything to save the marriage and that causes a lot of pressure. The OP uses this against us betrayed spouses. They "lessen" the pressure. It's all just a bunch of lies and manipulation but they are very good at it. I can only hope that eventually the WS will come to his/her senses and realize their spouse is the one with their true best interests at heart. Not the OP.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

KindaBlue:<P>It sounds like the OM is really trying to manipulate your wife. He is trying to be the friend/good-guy so that if your marriage gets worse, she will come running back to him. <P>The scary part is that your wife doesn't seem to see the manipulation factor.<P>And, in my opinion, a person can't be "just friends" with someone that she's had an affair with (EA or PA)...it just doesn't happen that way. By continuing to have contact with the OP, your wife is still having an EA (that's just my opinion, I don't mean to offend you or your wife in any way).<P>Your wife needs to cut-off all contact with the OM.<P>I hope this helps.<P>Jill<P>

Doug,<BR> I am surprised at how much your W is sharing with you.My H does not talk about OP at all. I afraid to bring the subject up because I am afraid of Lovebusting. I sure my H's says the same things. When I called her one time she E mailed my H saying" I hope I didnt cause any problems between you and your wife". That statement is almost funny! Hang in there Doug.<BR> Beth

victoria--<P>"Manipulation" is a great word to describe this! Thanks...it was on the tip of my tongue but I couldn't think of the word. <P>Keridwen--<P>I have been following your posts lately. Hang in there, I'm praying for you! <P>Jill--<P>You are definitely right about the contact. I think my W realizes that and that is also the hardest part of this...that "it" is still continuing. My W has told me that she realizes that she needs to cut off all contact, but she says that she doesn't think she can do it right now. The counselor that she/we are seeing told her to cut it off gradually, don't go cold turkey. I think she is trying?!? You do not "offend" me or my W by saying that without the "no contact" the EA is continuing...I know that and I think she does also.<P>bethn--<P>Sometimes I am surprised too at how much she tells me. I guess that would be "progress"?!? One of our big problems before was communication. I think she is trying to work on that and I have told her that I want her to tell me things...feelings, happenings, etc. Sometimes she tells me more than I want to know and it makes it very hard. There are times when I want to tell her to quit driving that knife in my back. But I think it makes my W feel better. Oh well, no one ever said the truth was going to be easy. Actually, the truth did get me into a LB last Thursday/Saturday. She told me Thursday night that the OM had invited her and my daughter to his place Friday afternoon. I lost it!!! Now he was getting my daughter involved. I tried for 2 days to call him and give him a piece of my mind! I finally got a hold of him Saturday night and I let him have it!! He kept telling me to act more mature and then he'd hang up. I'd call right back and get in as many nasty words as I could before he'd hang up. Unfortunately, my W overhead most of it because I was so pissed and yelling so loud. So far, nothing bad has "seem" to come out of that. My W has actually been very friendly to me the last two days. She almost seemed touched that I would fight for her like that!?! However, I don't think I will try that again, nor do I recommend that to anyone else!! <BR>Good thing he lives over an hour away, because he had me sooooo mad I probably would have taken off for his house. But I know I could not have driven that far feeling like that. My hands were shaking I was so mad! Anyway, back to a peaceful Plan A.<P>Thanks for the comments everone but I still want to hear from some who were the OP to see what their true intentions were.<P>Doug<BR><P>------------------<BR>Don't give up...don't ever give up!" --Jimmy Valvano

This sounds real familiar to me. My H's OW has said in the past that she would step out of the way if he wanted to work out his marriage. He has tried to do this two times so far and we are planning for a third time. Each time she starts calling him almost immediatly begging him to come back to her.<P>I believe she is just saying these things to look and sound good. She also told him that she does not feel she is pulling him away from me <P>Our WS's are in a very weak state living in this fantasyland and sometimes I wonder if the OP's know this and uses it to their advantage.<P>Pam