My H just came home and after I asked where he had been for 4 hours which wasn't the thing to say he told me it is over period. He wants out and to move on with his life. It is the best for both of us that I am not hurt anymore and he doesn't know how to make me understand that. <P>Of course I just lost it. I said that he was moving on with the OW and he constantly tells me there is nothing there between them and what I hear are all rumors and hes mad at all the people that are saying things about him and the OW and his drinking. I said I didn't want to hear the rumors I wanted to hear it straight from him. He said he would NEVER tell me anything. Well that made me believe that there is a lot to not tell.<P>Why is he being so cruel. He turns everything I say around so it is like I am to blame. That he has done everything for me and the marriage just got bad and he gave up. Nothing about the OW playing a part. I asked him if it was me with OM what would he have done. He said he would not have put up with any of it and left. So its ok for him but wouldn't be for me.<P>I told him I was worried about his drinking that I hated to see what it was doing to him. There was no response. I just let go and did all the wrong needy, crying , nagging things like I always do and probably just pushed him further away but hey I guess he was already gone from what he has said. <P>So he told me that he wouldn't go back to his lawyers and most likely I have every single thing in his life documented so I can tell the judge my wonderful story and take him to the cleaners because that is the way I am. How cruel does it get. Why not just cut my heart out and pour salt in the wound. <P>Why why why. But he can start over and build another dream home, garage, race all the time and I need to come home watch TV and have someone sit there with me every night. Well I am not 21 any more(actually 36) and neither is he. Alcohol will consume him and even the OW won't be able to stop it. He says that I am just the opposite of him and he doesn't want that anymore. In his words how could it ever work???? my response it won't with the OW involved and H not wanting to even work on it. Just his way out I guess. He says I call him a quitter so be it. End of discussion. But although it is him that wants to move forward he wants me to do all the ground work. <P>Six months from now will he be asking himself how stupid could he have been???? I guess in a way I hope he does. I just don't know if I can last that long. It seems like nothing is mattering anymore to me. He has crushed me over and over and I have been broke and he just walks away and continues on with his day. Maybe I deserve to be back in the behavioral science center locked up. He did this to me and I am the one paying so dearly.

(((((((((((((((((BC))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>I am so sorry. Take a deep breath. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.<P><P>------------------<BR>You can't live with them, you can't kill them!<BR>Viki

BC<P>I can tell you are still very upset. Hon, I don't know anything to say except...take a deep breath. I know you are in the midst of some major anxiety right now, but try to breathe deep and calm down. Breathe in and on the exhale count "1". Do it again and count "2" and on and on until 10. When you get to 10 start going backwards all the way to 1 again. Keep doing this until you feel calmer. It does help. It's the only way I make it sometimes. <P>((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

bc,<P>I think you need to ask yourself this question, "If your H refuses to change...do you really want to live the rest of your life married to someone who treats you with such disrespect?"<P>I understand that you love him but I think that your physical & mental health will suffer if you don't take care of yourself first. You can still love him...regardless if you stay married or not. But, you really need to take care of your well-being.<P>Again, I am very sorry that this is happenning to you. You don't deserve this at all. What you can do, is to make a better life for yourself, with or without him.<P>Maybe Mitzi can chime in here....

I guess you are right about the disrespect and do I want to be with someone like that. It is just that he was never like this to me and I wonder where the other man is. I know we don't deserve this type of treatment but I feel like I have lost to this bar fly (OW). I am a good person or so I thought and she willingly has persued my H and they still say nothing is going on.<P>Just as soon as I seem to stand up for myself he turns the tables and says that he was good to me never hit me built me a house let me drive the new vehicle etc. When most of what I needed was his time and attention and he would be out with the guys not all the time but then I would resent this and yes I probably did push him away from the resentment. Am i now paying the high price of loving him and wanting the attention he couldn't give?<P>

bc:<P>The things your husband said are almost EXACTLY what my husband has said to me. He just "gave up", after trying and trying. Unfortunately, he neglected to tell me there were problems first so that I could be a part of trying to fix things (if he ever did try and if there ever were problems to fix). His version of "trying" must have been an attempt to live with whatever the undisclosed wrongs were.<P>They virtually all turn mean and angry. It's easy for me to say but hard for to do, but try not to take it personally. It's just part of the justification process. You HAVE TO be the bad guy. I am sure he believes the OW has nothing to do with it (they all do). The anger does fade with time in most cases.<P>I'll cut to the chase here. He is in an affair and there is NOTHING you can do RIGHT NOW to change the situation. Give yourself a break and stop trying. Focus on living your life for maximum enjoyment and accept that it will take up to two years for this scenario to play itself out. The vast majority of affairs end all by themselves somewhere between 6 months and 2 years from the time you turn it over to the infidel to do as he pleases. Don't lovebust but focus on your own life here. You will have virtually no opportunity to fix the relationship with him until the affair dies on its own. He's already chosen her, so there's no point in fighting that part of the battle when it's already lost. He has to lose his obsession with her before anything that you do matters.<P>I am so sorry for your pain. Far too many of us here know what you're going through. I've spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME AND ENERGY reading everything under the sun, hanging out on this forum for thousands of hours, and strategizing endlessly about other approaches I could use. I've concluded that it's mostly been a big waste of time. Until the affair is over, there's virtually nothing you can do. At least that's been my experience.<P>Best of luck. You have my prayers.

bc,<P>I don't necessarily believe that your H has chosen the OW over you. I think that he has chosen his alcohol first.<P>Anyone that supports his addiction is who he wants to associate with....that's where the OW comes in. She will do anything to keep him, and that also means enabling his addiction.<P>However, his addiction is destructive and is causing so much heartache & turmoil for you and family.<P>He needs to fight this battle on his own terms. At this point, he's the only one who can help himself.<P>You are not a bad person. The addiction to alcohol has changed him into a different person.<P>Please don't allow what he has done to himself, to destroy you.<P>Focus on taking care of your needs and your mental & physical being. Surround yourself with family & friends. Keep yourself busy and occupied. You can get through this. <p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited April 04, 2000).]

OK, my wife has told me that "it's over" many times in the last five months. She's still here, things "appear" to be getting better, and there's still tons of hope for our future. <P>Your husband, like my wife, is likely to say anything and do nothing during this process. But, he will only do nothing if you appear to be desirable also, and that means sticking to Plan A and trying not to react angrily to the mean and cruel things he'll say - and there will be plenty. Remember, it's par for the course with an affair.<P>SamH

Hi BC -<P>I am sorry that you have been going through this for what must seem like an eternity....I know the pain, frustration, confusion, anger and helplessness that you feel.<P>I went back and reviewed your threads/posts so that I can have a better understanding of your situation.<P>It seems that it is time to step back a minute and look at what you've done and what you could do to save this marriage.<P>You have been here quite awhile and yet it seems that you are no closer to understanding what happens with infidelity....there is a process to this mess. I think that you need to REALLY understand that. THE BETRAYERS ALL DO PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THINGS!!!<P>Your Husband is following the pattern in action and words as all the rest. There is a very strong "fantasy" factor in all of this for them, and don't forget the added fog of alcohol.<P>You have been driving yourself to exhaustion (mentally, physically and spiritually) with all the strategizing and rationalizations you have been attempting to get through to H. All you are succeeding in is making your own self more miserable.<P>I would like to help you break that role for yourself. During all this time you have been beating your own head against a wall.....STOP IT!!!!<P>Have you read Dr Harley's concepts? If not then do so....if yes, then start implementing them!!! You are still Lovebusting...you are personalizing what is not personal - He is not doing this TO YOU!!!! He is doing this FOR HIMSELF!!!! Big difference.......<P>Your anger is perfectly natural and in a normal circumstance is logical and a necessary reaction....we all have gone through it. BUT - you need to put the negative energy it creates to good use and regenerate it into some possitive changes with yourself!!!<P>Have you done some self evaluating? What have you changed for the good of the relationship? Instead of focusing on "getting him to....." - you must focus on "would I want to come home to me?"<P>The betrayer has escaped into this "fantasy" for a reason...what do you think his reasons were? Start with that - what can you do to eliminate any possible reasons for his escaping. <P>MB is all about how to learn and improve ourselves in order to create the best environment for a marriage. Plan A is specifically a time for working on us and creating a safe, loving environment at home with us for him to want to be his "haven". Have you done that?<P>Plan B is for when YOU feel that your love is slipping away, you have done Plan A (giving it your all and doing it consistantly!!!), and need time to wean off your spouse to heal and release any dependancy you may have to him.<P>From reading of your situation, I do not think that you have managed to put this in perspective enough to allow your mind to overcome your raw emotions. That is not good for you. YOU NEED to undertand about this being a PROCESS...You need to realize that they all do and say the same types of things(they have a handbook!! I swear!!!) <P>If they all do this....then how is it so personal? It's not!!! It's an ADDICTION!!!!! <P>And, like with all addictions, you cannot control anything about the addict!!! All you can do is be a person that is understanding and safe for them to want to "get clean" for!!!!<P>If you REALLY get a better perspective for yourself, STOP REACTING to his behavior and REALLY DO a PLAN A then perhaps it will effect him....he says you will not change - so? PROVE HIM WRONG!!!! Change.......<P>There will never be any guarantees in our lives...that includes getting through infidelity (even with wonderful tools such as MB) but you can guarantee that you can be the best person you want to be....for H or for another relationship....but mostly for yourself.<P>Please think on this.....I really think that if you can get past the Lovebusting by accepting that this is a process that MUST be gone through than you can make it through this with a lot less pain and anger.<P>You have to put in some work on yourself though. <P>Distressed is right in that as long as a betrayer has the OP in their life.....nothing gets through to their foggy brains. The only hope to do that is to be a consistant safe place for him to want to be. And then when the fog lifts and he sees her for all she is - you will be seen also for what you have chosen to become!!!!<P>Get yourself prepared for that day...when he comes out of his addiction, you will need to be strong for him because he will be weak. Are you strong? Not yet, but you can be if you want to......<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

bc,<P>I don't think any amount of Plan A will work as long as your H is addicted to alcohol. That is the ROOT of the problem.<P>I understand this because I lived it.<P>Until your H hits his rock-bottom (and unfortunately, he hasn't yet hit it), that is when he will get his wake-up call.<P>From following your posts from the very beginning, I feel that you have done what you could to save your marriage. I think you do know and are a good person that your H can come home to when he is ready.<P>Unfortunately, with alcohol still in the picture, it isn't going to happen. Things will change when he is ready to change, and that means him dealing with his "alcohol" addiction first. At this point, alcohol is his first love.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited April 04, 2000).]

No Trust I understand what you are saying and as far as the alcohol - I agree with you......<P>I would only point out that PLAN A is for BC - not just to work on getting him back to reality. She has to understand all of this, be able to process it and get the most for her own self-growth and learning that she can. <P>It is not good to fall stagnant in a pool of anger, bitterness or hurt. We want control so badly, then we should be smart enough to exercise it when we can for the best outcome for US. <P>If H sees that along the way - great!! If not, then WE have gotten some good out of this...and since we have to go through it - shouldn't we gain something?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

bc,<P>Sorry I'm a little late.<P>Everyone has told you the right stuff. You did not lose to the OW. Your H chose the alcohol. That is the root of all of the problems. <P>My H also chose to be with a woman who enables him to drink. He tries to say that I'm the one to blame for our marriage being bad and after a while we tend to believe that. But it is not true. My H has been gone for 3 months and is still having financial problems. It wasn't because he had a family, it was because of his drinking. He says I'll take him to the cleaners and in the beginning I would never have thought about it. Now, I'm going to make certain that it is in our divorce papers that he is abusive and an adulterer and I will get what I deserve financially. <P>You will be ok. It does take time to get into the swing of things. I'm just now coming to terms with living alone. And I still have bad days. On those days, I call almost everyone I know and read and post here. People probably get tired of me calling them. <P>And prayer. Believe it or not, it does help. I still obsess about it a lot but it will get easier. If you need to, feel free to email me: mitzihartman@webtv.net<P>(((((HUGS)))))<BR>Mitzi

Again, thanks for the wonderful support. I needed to hear that I wasn't the bad person he is making me out to be. I have done a Plan A from the time I found out last Aug what was going on. I tried to change a few things that I felt needed changing to make me a better person to be with. He didn't understand and continued to be with the OW and lie drink and cheat.<P>So as many of you have said and my counselor tells me too that his drinking right now is his number one love and the OW is just someone who is enabling him to drink which I won't. She shows him all the good sides of herself but he hasn't lived with her and spent 24/7 with her. He has been there with me for 12 years and nine years of marriage. I have been there for him all that time.<P>The drinking just gets worse as he tries to forget what is going on at home. He continues to run away and drink the problems and pain away. Will he ever hit rock bottom? I have to let him do what he must. If that means continuing on with the divorce I must if not for myself but maybe for him. Until he stops the drinking there will be the OW and the mean and hurtful things he continues to tell me to justify his actions. NO MORE. I can't take it.<P>Thursday at the suggestion of my counselor I am going to see the "shrink", I guess I have to laugh about or I would cry and not go. If nothing else maybe to get something to help me sleep and feel better about myself. I am reluctant to do antidepressants because of all the side effects. I already have terrible migraines and don't want to make them worse. But the inability to get any good sleep for only a couple of hours here and there is taking its toll physically. I have gained some weight back which is good but really need the sleep at night.<P>Again I cannot say enough about what the support from you all means to me. You don't judge me and you try to help no matter what.<P>Thanks to all.....