I just finished reading what you wrote to toothbrush.... about the safe place...etc.... my H wants us to get along........ I truly think he wants to divorde...(please search and read my posts about the affair and OP)<P>I want to know this... did your H say things like I never have had feelings for you.... or like this before. I love you but I'm not in love with you.... and then tell ya what was wrong with you.... my H never told me he was unhappy with me until the OP came along....... I feel like I'm losing hope... my H is not a talker and likes quiet evenings....... He is reading SAA and I've set up a counseling session with MB... I would like to get him to talk to a counselor... but hhe really doesn't like it... feels the counselors have a great job... <P>I really need some help here....Thanks...s

Hi scoik, sorry to take long to answer but I just got home.<P>I was just reading your other posts to get an idea of what your situation is.<P>To anser your question, yes I did get all that, actually I would have been happy if I had gotten the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" what I actually got was " I don't love you at all, I couldn't care less about your feelings". And some other meanies.<P>It's interesting how most of the times nothing is wrong untill there's an affair. Although I believe there might be somethings not going that well, but they never seem that important until another person enters the scene.<P>The fact the your h's ow is far away has its good points and its bad points.For one they're not seeing each other every day and it gives you some time to work ( from the inside ) on the other hand , since they don't see each other that often, the reality of the whole thing might take longer to sink in. Everytime there is contact, all the doubts will come back again. There's no reality living, no problems to solve at home, no "talk to your son, he did so and so today at school ", he's not coming home to someone that was working as much as he does and eis tired... etc. none of those things happens in their "dream world" because they're not living together.<P>I find the fact that he asked to come back somehow positive, even though he wasn't able to end the affair.It's always difficult to end the affair no matter what. And I found that when it looks easy, it either was't as important as it seemed, or the spouse is just telling what he thinks the other spouse wants to hear.<P>For instance, my h says his affair ended at the end of September 98 - had started June98 - . I believe he might have wanted to end it then, but it really couldn't. It went for a little longer. MAybe not the way it was but there was some contact still.<BR>Another thing I found is that it seems difficult to just say"I'm ending it because I love my spouse and I want to work on our marriage" usually excuses are given, like it'a not a good time, spouse is sick, it's because of the kids, I don't want to, but I feel I need to give my marriage a try etc . etc etc. . What this creates is a feeling that although the affair is being ended, it's not really over. After working the problems stated there might be a chance, and that's wy - in my opinion - many op still try to keep contact after the affair is over. It was a lame excuse, and an open ending.<P>ANyway, a lot of the WS will divorce right away if the circumstances are right, and even if later on they will recognize they made a mistake. It's the way they feel at the time. <BR>Look at us, we've been doing great for almost 2 years, he recognizes the affair was a mistake - and even admits that he was trying to avoid dealing with whatever problems he felt in our marriage -, but had I given him an opening for him to leave at that time and suggested divorce,he would have taken it without thinking twice.. Actually there was times were he would be trying to bait me into arguments that could result in just that. Fortunately I know my H quite well, and could see trough that. And as I had told him before,I wouldn't make the decision for him - so he could claim I had been the one doing it -.<P>If he wants you guys to get along, that will give you a chance to plan A as best as you can. YOu might get some results .<BR>I am very carefull about sugesting plan B, it should be done only when you feel you can't continue plan A, and when done it has to be followed , there's no back and forth.<BR>ALso one of the problems I find with it, is that it does play into their hands and gives them what they think they want.Sometimes it works in our favor, but the risk is that it can backfire big time. I know for instance, that if I had got to that point there would be no coming back, because after done, my H would never get back, even if he recognized he had made a mistake - he is that stubborn -. However not everybody is the same way, and each one of us knows our spouse and more or less how he'll react.<P>In terms of plan A, I guess you figured out by now, that at first it doesn't really work that well. Spouse won't be receptive to anything nice coming from us, will fight it and feel he's being manipulated. But if we continue nevertheless, things start changing, as long as we've been consistent enough.<P>Main ideas are really make things relaxing at home, find safe subjects to talk about, find things that can be done together ( I could kiss the guys at "sierra" for creating the game "caesar" the hours we spent playing the silly thing were filled with relaxing fun, and even talks that actually led somewhere - not counting the fact that while he was playing for 3 hours after coming home,he certainly wasn't phoning her, e-mailing her or even meeting her -.<BR>AS for manipulating, as long as you're not obvious you can try some, after all, we're fighting a good cause , nothing too big, an open picture album with pictures of happier times, maybe some old love letter from the time where the fantasy land was where you were, small things left open that he might or not pay attention to, but that are definitely showing good times.Don't show those thing to him, just live them somewhere where he can see them. WHO knows one day he might pick it up and look at it, and remember.<BR>I'm assuming that you took a look back at your marriage before the affair and looked for any things that might have been not at its best - which might or not have anything to do with what he complains about now, in my case they didn't.<BR>even though at first nothing comes to mind, do think about it. After being married for so long, we sometimes forget small things that are important and those weak links have a tendency to snowball into big problems, that we are not even aware exist, but are there anyway.<BR>The next step is to try to fix them if possible, and you might fell him fight it, keep doing it just the same.<BR>If you can get him to concentrate on your relationship long enough for him to pass some time without remembering to contact her it will be a great step.<P>Counselling is great, but if he has trouble with that, don't force it. Or go yourself, just to get some direction, or just to be able to talk about it with someone if you don't have anyone you can trust with this. I have no one in here, and it helped me if only for that.I'm afraid all the other suggestions I got I had either tried them already or was planing to try. But the chance to talk about it with someone else, helped me to put my own thoughts in order. The H was a different case, since as yours he didn't take much to counselors on top of having big problems opening up to anybody. So he quit, and still we were able to rebuild.<BR>I'm not sure if I answered all that you needed answered, but I'm afraid I'm "dead". Been working since early in the morning and it was a big day.<P>If there's anything else you want to ask, please do either here, or you can e-mail me at lwnd@hotmail.com.<BR>The e-mails I access at work, the forum I sometimes take a little bit longer to answer because I get home late.<P>Hope to hear from you soon.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P><BR>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited April 05, 2000).]

Hi scoick, my answer just went down as new post come up.<BR>Today I have night classes so I;ll be coming home late. I'm not sure if I'll be able to come here, but if you want to e-mail me, I'll check my e-mail from work.<BR>Kat

just bringing it up so you have a chance to see it .<P>Take care<BR>Kat

Hey Kat1,<P>I tried to email you this AM... but it was returned to me............I'll try it again....... thanks...........s