Since D-Day (1/16/00) when my W confronted me with undeniable proof of my affair. We recovered enough to move to Plan A. It worked for a while, but I become depressed through withdrawal, resumed contact and resorted to many LBs while I waivered. It pushed my wife to the point to ask me to leave. Now I am working on Plan B, alone, as my W is on no plan. I am out of the house, living out of boxes at my brother's house. My W is so angry at me, she won't even discuss reconciliation, certainly not a Joint Agreement. She won't even have lunch with me, won't write me, only calls me when there is a problem. Obviously, for plan B to work, I had to break off contact with the OW, I did. But my wife's attitude towards me and my efforts, are chilling, very depressing. They have me feeling that there is absolutely no chance I will ever win her back, never live in the same home as my children. A mediated session for legal separation is scheduled for April 25th. I don't want this. I have seen the light, the cloud has lifted, but I get absolutely no help from her. Her view is the damage is done. She asks me to get my head on straight, but I cannot do that under these conditions. I am weak. My kids are 13, 9, & 6. I miss not living with them so much. I miss not living with her. She is such a good person and wonderful mother. Sure, I really did some damage to my W, but I cannot live in this state with no hope. I read of the many betrayed in this forum on how they would do anything to get their wayward one's home once they saw the light. Being out of the house, I do see it, but it appears it just doesn't matter. Am I hanging onto false hope?

No, CMan. You're not holding on to false hope.<P>You didn't get where you are overnight. You can't get back to where you were overnight. Even though the past few months seem like an eternity, they really have only been a few months. <P>Keep talking. You aren't weak; you're hurting. It's hard to hurt. You have people who care about you--you've spoken of friends in other posts. You've said before that you've started counseling. You have people who recognize your posts here. Reach out to them and keep talking. Have you thought any about telephone counseling with Dr. Harley? It might help to talk to someone who works with folks like us every day. Remember, CMan, It will get better.<P>It's really hard to wake up one day and realize that the world isn't the way you thought it was. You are hurting and your wife is hurting. Give her time. Don't push her to take you back right away. She needs to see that you mean what you say.<P>Hang on tight. This is going to be a very rough ride. You can make it through. You, like your wife, will find strength you never knew you had.<P>Keep posting CMan. I'll keep looking for your posts and hoping that you'll get better.<P>--HBC

Hey-<P>Just another note here, keep going CMAN. She's hot and mad, give it time to cool down. Get some creative ideas, like flowers at work but don't borage (sp.?) her. I used to love little things - a small bud vase with a couple of lavender sprigs in it, attach a home decorated note with sparkles, glitter glue or beads (something really corny that takes time and effort to create that's beyond weird, but maybe she'll see the effort as very charming), or maybe some small oak tree branches with leaves and glue on some acorns and the note can say "I'm nuttin without you" and leave it somewhere she'll find it (front porch or something). For me, creativity (which only means someone cared enough to take the time to think about it) would break down barriers. Ask people here for ideas, I know there are a lot out there, I think there's even a forum here for stuff like that.<P>Don't give up and give it time - and when you're whizzed or sad, post here. Keep the goal. THINGS NEVER STAY THE SAME!! She won't be mad forever especially if you show some effort and don't go back to you know where (which I hate to even mention).

Hi CMan,<P> You are doing good, even if you can't see it.....your W is extremely hurt and defensive but I bet under that there is love.You have to look at this as a commitment for the long haul....your family is worth it.<BR> <BR>You have to build some credibilty with her by each action you take every day. I can imagine how she feels but consistent actions on your part can break through that barrier.........hang in there, CMan , we're with you on this.....LU

I get so pi$$ed off when I hear/read a betrayer ask "Well when is he/she gonna get over it and let me back in, I've SEEN THE LIGHT"! How long have you been out of the house? How long did your wife have to wait until you SAW THE LIGHT? None of that matters at this point. You took your time in letting the OW go, but now since you think it is time your wife should be ready to jump for joy and trust you AGAIN. You need to read "HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS", or anything you can get your hands on to help you understand about ADULT NEEDS. You strayed because your needs weren't being met and now your wife wants her needs met, not just because once again you say you are ready but because you know and understand the vows you took and that you really WANT THEM. Not for the kids, not for fear of being alone or being another statistic but because you love and are IN LOVE with your wife and she can really FEEL that you do, because your actions have proven to her in her mind that you don't over and over again.

CMan:<P>Things are just a mess for you and I am so sorry for that...I wish I could give you some words of encourgement. Did you not say your affair was an EA? How long was the affair? I had an EA, but I never met the person...my H claims he has forgiven me completely, but everytime I go near the computer I am interogated like the Spanish Inquistion. Anyway, some people are very unforgiving...was the evidence she found really damaging? If it was, your wife is very hurt and is doing what she can't help but do, hurt you back. You need to remember that in her eyes you have not only betrayed her trust, but humilated her by not giving up the OW right away, and caused her serious pain. She is probably blaming you for everything from what you have done to the depletion of the rain forest. Hang in there. Things are so hard right now... but what choice to you have but to proceed. Take this time to really think about things. All you can do is try. It will take time and patience, but if you two love each other, then you need to do what needs to be done.<P>Be strong.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMan:<BR><B>Since D-Day (1/16/00) when my W confronted me with undeniable proof of my affair. We recovered enough to move to Plan A. It worked for a while, but I become depressed through withdrawal, resumed contact and resorted to many LBs while I waivered. It pushed my wife to the point to ask me to leave. Now I am working on Plan B, alone, as my W is on no plan. I am out of the house, living out of boxes at my brother's house. My W is so angry at me, she won't even discuss reconciliation, certainly not a Joint Agreement. She won't even have lunch with me, won't write me, only calls me when there is a problem. Obviously, for plan B to work, I had to break off contact with the OW, I did. But my wife's attitude towards me and my efforts, are chilling, very depressing. They have me feeling that there is absolutely no chance I will ever win her back, never live in the same home as my children. A mediated session for legal separation is scheduled for April 25th. I don't want this. I have seen the light, the cloud has lifted, but I get absolutely no help from her. Her view is the damage is done. She asks me to get my head on straight, but I cannot do that under these conditions. I am weak. My kids are 13, 9, & 6. I miss not living with them so much. I miss not living with her. She is such a good person and wonderful mother. Sure, I really did some damage to my W, but I cannot live in this state with no hope. I read of the many betrayed in this forum on how they would do anything to get their wayward one's home once they saw the light. Being out of the house, I do see it, but it appears it just doesn't matter. Am I hanging onto false hope?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

During the Plan A trial, we both read His Needs/Her Needs. We were both textbook cases. My needs were right in order, my W's placed Family Commitment up one from the bottom. It enlightened me to no end. Still does. I never knew what I needed, nor the needs of my W and she didn't either. We both share the blame for the problems in our marriage. Yes, I entered into an affair because of unmet needs, no question about it. However, I never ever expected it to reach the heights it did. OW shattered needs 1, 2, 3, & 5 before I knew what hit me (therefore it was both an EA and a PA). I know now what I need and what my W needs. The problem is I'm not home at this point to fulfill her needs or to get any opportunity to try and fill the Love Bank. Meanwhile, she is emptying mine with LBs whenever we talk. I know it is early in the separation and I deserve every LB thrown my way. I will keep plugging away and I just try to enjoy my kids and have them enjoy my time with them. So far that has been great. W feels that anytime my mouth moves, I'm lying. She doesn't believe me when I tell her the affair was four months in length. She thinks it went on longer than that. Not that it matters how long it lasted, but I cannot convince her of anything.

CMan--<P>There will come a time when she can listen; she's just not there yet.<P>Hang in there, but hang back. It might actually be an LB to push too hard right now. I think it was JWilly (hey, you guys, let me know if I'm wrong) who shared advice from Dr. Harley not to barrage his W with stuff (e-mails, flowers, etc.) but rather to keep them a week or ten days apart (correct me, friends!).<P>She's not ready to listen right now, but stay strong and be ready to share when she is ready to listen. You can do it. --HBC

If Family Commitment is one of her top emotional needs than you are meeting that need by being with your kids and being the best father you can be! Your wife is in pain that is why she is lashing out at you. Just hang in there and show her by your actions that you are willing to do whatever is necessary to rebuild your mariage.

CMan,<P>You are in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>! Not <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>! (<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> is when <B>YOU</B> want to have no contact with your W... so she may be in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>)<P>This is the true <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. (page 77 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Even though you are out of the house...<BR>...take every opportunity to be "nice" (better than "nice") to your W... even though she <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busts</A>...<P>My W is still abusive (verbally) to me...<BR>...but I continue...<BR>(Not much success... divorce still moving forward)... but I keep on plugging away!<P>So should you!<P> <P>Jim

I think you have a bit of misunderstanding of what you are doing with the MB principles.<P>Most of this is geared towards the betrayed (your wife) wanting to reconcile & get you out of an affair. However, it can be modified to fit instances such as yours.<P>You quit the affair and never see/contact the ow again. You must let your wife know you have accomplished this. You must let your wife know you are remorseful & wish to try & make it up. If you Plan B, then you cannot do this. Plan B is because you are losing your love for your spouse, not to try & get her to work on the marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We recovered enough to move to Plan A.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is nothing to recover from before you proceed to Plan A. You just do it. Plan A is designed to show the wayward spouse that you are someone safe they can come back to. Also, while in Plan A, the betrayed spouse works towards understanding and correcting their behavior by removing all lovebusters.<P>Plan A is not a trial plan. You do Plan A until you are losing the love for your spouse or you are lovebusting because their behavior in an affair is tearing you up too much.<P>THe ranking of the needs in HNHN are typical, but do yours do not have to be the same. Yours may be entirely different.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know it is early in the separation and I deserve every LB thrown my way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No you don't deserve them. But she's gonna do it anyway. She's hurt beyond what you could feel unless you were in her shoes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> W feels that anytime my mouth moves, I'm lying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What else do you expect her to think. You must PROVE to her the opposite.<P>By you being in Plan B (you not having any contact with her) you're making it seem as if she's the one who did wrong (the affair).<P>You have to bite the bullet. You have to be the one to prove everything to her. You have to show her she can trust you again. Get her the book Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley.<P>Be patient & hang on tight.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

During the Plan A trial, we both read His Needs/Her Needs. We were both textbook cases. My needs were right in order, my W's placed Family Commitment up one from the bottom. It enlightened me to no end. Still does. I never knew what I needed, nor the needs of my W and she didn't either. We both share the blame for the problems in our marriage. Yes, I entered into an affair because of unmet needs, no question about it. However, I never ever expected it to reach the heights it did. OW shattered needs 1, 2, 3, & 5 before I knew what hit me (therefore it was both an EA and a PA). I know now what I need and what my W needs. The problem is I'm not home at this point to fulfill her needs or to get any opportunity to try and fill the Love Bank. Meanwhile, she is emptying mine with LBs whenever we talk. I know it is early in the separation and I deserve every LB thrown my way. I will keep plugging away and I just try to enjoy my kids and have them enjoy my time with them. So far that has been great. W feels that anytime my mouth moves, I'm lying. She doesn't believe me when I tell her the affair was four months in length. She thinks it went on longer than that. Not that it matters how long it lasted, but I cannot convince her of anything.

You said that already. Was it reposted by you or a mess up?

Sorry folks, but I got mixed up with my browser and resent my second post by accident. <P>I've told my wife that the OW is out of picture, but my mouth is moving... therefore... I know I have to prove it. Lots of good advice here. She didn't have the affair, I did. After promising never to contact the OW again, I suffered depression and withdrawal and did just that. That is the double-shot of hurt my wife feels. She is a great woman and I want her back, but it is up to her at this point. She never wants to get in that position again. She is very angry. I appreciate all the input. Even though it's the betrayed, not the betrayer who usually works plan A, I'll just keep those LBs away, that's all I can do at this point. She appears to be on plan W... taking care of herself.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but it is up to her at this point<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not even close. She's pissed off & hurt beyond belief. Give her some time. It's up to you to prove to her that she can accept you back. You need to prove to her you are trustworthy. You have to do anything/everything you can.<P>She is rightfully very angry. However when she gets ticked off at you, <B>do not</B> try to defend yourself! Tell her, "thanks for letting me know what I did hurt you. This is something I am working on and will not let it happen again." <B>then don't let it happen again!</B> & you better be sincere. You are working on eliminating lovebusters as SHE sees them.<P>Look at it this way. You promised her you would not contact the ow & then you did. Why should she believe you? (no need for an answer, but something to think about)<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

CMan,<P>Did you ever send the OW a "How to tell a lover that the relationship is over letter(on page 58-59 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)"...<P>...if you have not...<BR>...send one (e-mail me imherczeg@yahoo.com if you need a draft)... and make a copy for your wife!<P>It is one of several steps a WS should follow...<P>I gotta go now...<BR>...I'll be back tonight to give you the rest!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks Chris, I'm listening. It's not up to her. I DO have to prove myself and I will.

You really can't blame her for being in planW right now. Let her cool off a bit. Give it a little more time. In a week or two, you might try writing her a very heart-felt letter. Don't let anything creep into that letter to suggest that your unmet needs justified your affair in any way...tell her you know you did something awful. Let her know that you really love her, and why. Ask if she will let you date her a bit, and give you a chance.<P>Often it is easier to get all the things you want to say said in a letter, where she can't interupt, and will (probably) be curious enough to keep reading.<P>Anyway, that's my 2cents Good luck--<BR>Kathi

NSR is right. She needs the letter, but your Wife needs to mail it, NOT you. This will ensure your Wife knows what you sent to her AND that you had some contact.<P>Tell your wife you would like to do this to prove to her that it is over & you would like her to mail it after she approves of it. The words should come from you, not your wife.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

This is the second time I've ended the relationship. The first time was after D-Day. At that time I used an email that I passed onto my W along with the OW's bitter reply. We had not yet received Harley's books. This time around, my W doesn't even want to get involved in the break, she's been hurt enough. I offered to sit down with her and write it verbatim from SAA and mail it certified, she just wants nothing to do with it. So I decided to meet with the OW face-to-face and brake it off. It was hard, but something I had to do. The fantasy is over.