I edited my post to your "fun...bad...good" reply... at the end of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001874.html" TARGET=_blank>The forum cycles with Giver & Taker</A>...<P>I love you... <BR>...I mean I hate you... <BR>...I mean I'm indifferent... <P>oh..... you know what I mean. LOL<P>Jim

Jim...<BR>I don't know what the purpose of your post was but I have to share with you a little background and then my reaction.<P>I have been doing the 'I don't care/I love you' dance for about two weeks now, complicated by the fact that a very dear friend who was diagnosed with terminal cancer a month ago died on Monday. Things have been tough to say the least and there are times when I just want to not care about anything anymore...but then there is a spark...in this case words of wisdom from someone on this site...and then your post. <P>I tell you I started laughing and everytime I look at I laugh. You summed it up perfectly and those silly smiley faces!!! I don't know if that is what you had in mind when you wrote it, but just be assured that you have made someones day with your simple words and smiles. Thank you!!!

victoria,<P>The post above is just because of a bit of ribbing I'm getting from a forum friend "<B>trying2_4give</B>"...<P>Thinks I'm "too" good...<BR>...and I'm just trying to have fun with her...<P>If you read the beginning of (click on) ===><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001874.html" TARGET=_blank>The forum cycles with Giver & Taker</A>...<BR>...my post was a bit...<BR>...how should I say...<BR>...philosophical...<P>"<B>trying2_4give</B>"... was just joyously mentioning(in 3rd from last reply) how I look at most things with maybe too much of "silver lining"...<P>...and I responded in the next to last reply... in a fun kind of way... that I am not really perfect either...<P>...feel free to see the human side of Jim/NSR in that reply... click on the other underlined links and see the "more human" kind of posts/replies I've made.<P>...I know I am all too human too! <P>BTW: Your words are so kind... <BR>I love to put a smile on peoples faces/hearts.<P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] <P>Jim

I clicked through to those other links and boy did I ever get a good laugh! Now I have even more reasons to like chocolate!

Jim<BR>I'm butting in here because I have a philosophical question for you. I know this might get you going as it has me for the last day:<P>When we are being good to ourselves, doing things for ourselves, is that our Giver or or Taker acting?<P>BTW I still think that full moon has a lot to do with the cycles on the board. Tell me you haven't noticed. Every month, for a week before the full moon we all get a little strange.

I'll bite...<P>It's our Taker acting satisfied in a way to satisfy the acts of the Giver... <P>How's that?<P>Monday the 18th... next full moon... watch out!

Jim, Jim, Jim,<BR>I want more detail than that.<BR>I've been thinking on this one way too long for you to answer that in one sentence. Kind of a chicken/egg scenario.<BR>So what if the person has a harder time giving to oneself than to others? Does the Taker really come into play at all when you have to work at being good to yourself?<BR>Is the Taker present when you feel guilty for being nice to yourself?<BR>Okay I'll shut up and I promise I won't ask any more questions for a week. <P>I know exactly when the full moon is every month because I can just feel it coming. Does this mean I've been here too long?<BR>Ooops that was a question. <P>Have a great day Jim! You deserve it! <BR>(And try to arrange for that Giver/Taker to do something special for you today.)

wasstubborn,<P>Oh... don't wait a week...<BR>My Giver can't wait that long...<P>Ok... make me put on my thinking cap...<P>I'd like to think you can extend Dr. Harley's principles just a bit.<P>I can think of having 2 major love banks...<BR>One for your spouse...<BR>One for yourself...<BR>Both held by you!<P>The love bank for the spouse works just like it is explained in all his books.<P>The love bank for yourself... works a little differently... but not much. The "self" bank is more or less only making tranfers from the Giver side to the Taker side. It really doesn't cause you to grow your account... (e.g. taking from Peter to pay Paul)<BR>It's still important though, because self-esteem really is rooted in first of all self-gratification/self-centeredness... (in a healthy way)...<BR>If you can't love yourself first... how can you love others... <BR>If you don't know how to make yourself happy how can you make someone else happy... <BR>If you can't make yourself better... how can you help make others better (oh wow... Plan A!) <BR>And then a step further... along the lines of "religion"... <BR>Don't take the splinter out of your brother's eyes, until you take the plank out of your own eyes.<P>We need to fix, build, rebuild ourselves up to a point...<BR>...before we can help anyone else...<BR>True in Plan A... True in Plan B... True in any Plan!<P>But like I said earlier...<BR>...there is limited growth with "self" Giver satisfying "self" Taker... for the "self" bank.<BR>There might be some synergy there but the potential for "communal growth" is very low.<P>It's really when the Giver and Taker of the "self" bank can interact with the Giver and Taker of the "spouse's" bank where real growth can occur.<P>When the Giver of the "self" can reach to and extend the "gift' to the "spouse's" Taker... and in the process, recieve back gratitude (and gratification) from the spouse... and self...<BR>If the self bank has been conditioned on to accept self gratification... then it is a big plus when gratification comes from another source as well...<P>Likewise... The Taker of "self"... now has the potential of being given more than ever ...<BR>A healthy individual can handle this... by storing some in either love bank...<BR>An unhealthy indivdual squanders it away... or disregards one of the love banks as a useful repository... not keeping gift to self, or gift from spouse.<P>The potential for substantive growth only exists when both sets of Givers/Takers can interact with each other through your spouse. That's why in Plan A... even long distance ones... there is still the request of some amount of contact (e.g. Chris was asked by Steve H. to "stir the pot")<P>In Plan B... the no contact rule comes into play... because the hurtful spouse's Taker has taken control of everyones love banks. The game is over... The injured spouse has to rebuild their own love banks!<P>...was that too long?<BR>...it probably needs refinement... but I'm fried now... <P>Jim

Let's throw another curve into it-is it gender related? <P>The Taker is the key...being the Giver is easy, but there are many reasons that we feel we can't take...not enough time, feelings of unworthiness, guilt etc at taking the time to do something for yourself when you keep thinking of all the things that you should/could be doing for others. <P>As for gender, supposedly women fall into this pit more often than men...hence the 'superwoman' syndrome...giving to everyone else to the point of exhaustion (been there done that). Found that when I established a better give/take with myself my attitude about life changeed.<P>That is my 2 cents worth for now.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Jim<BR>Thank you!!!<BR>That was exactly what I was looking for. Never ever too long in my books. I was thinking about this last night and really wanted your view on it since your other thread got me started.<BR>I couldn't get back today as I was busy in my workshop/meditation room thinking on another subject as well. Maybe next week after my promise is fullfilled I'll throw that question at you. <BR>Love everyone else's thoughts too.<BR>