A good friend of mine is leaving our company and a going away party is scheduled for this Friday and Cat and I are/were planning to attend. This good friend is OM's best friend and will show up also.<P>I've already said if she decides to talk to OM I will give her what she wants, divorce. We talked extensively about trying to save our marriage last night and now this comes up. Cat can't get over the guilt or the desire to be happy w/ OM and I can't blame her.<P>She says it's not me, that it is her and her inability to try or to want it, but I realize it doesn't matter who or where or why anymore, just the end result is going to be the same.<P>Guess I'm just lost. Any flashlights out there? <P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

No good advice for you. But for Cat, I don't know if you read over at Divorcing but there is post from momof2 that relevant to your situation. <BR>

My inclination is to think that she is bound to talk to him. It might be extremely awkward for her not to...especially at a party. It's not an ideal situation. Maybe you both could agree that she's not to talk to him alone. Does she have any ideas on what she can do to avoid talking to him? Arrange to come early, say your regards and then quickly leave before he would get there, or arrive after he's left? Maybe work it out so that there is a private party later? Anyway, she's still in withdrawal, and an occasional slip-up is going to happen. The big thing is in how you both plan for those so that they are less and less likely to occur.<P>As for divorce. I hate to say it, but that seems like a bit of a threat to me (Making it an LB) Being upfront that it would hurt you for her to speak to him, and that you would like to find an acceptable arrangement together so that they don't interact isn't. <P>It's a different mindset. Instead of thinking, I deserve this, and she's going to give it to me or else you think I deserve this, what can I do to make her giving this to me more attractive? I'm going to deserve it through my actions.<P>I can use a teaching analogy. My first year I felt students needed to give me respect by virtue of my position. They needed to do their work because otherwise I would fail them. They needed to behave otherwise I would punish them. My classroom was chaos. My students were unhappy, I was unhappy. Over the course of my teaching career I have learned that those moments when I look at what I want my students to do, and then figure out a way to show them how it is important to them, to get them to desire to do it rather than do it to avoid punishment they are much more likely to come through, and I enjoy the process and results a whole lot more. You are both each other's teachers. Work on getting her to desire to give you what you need.

What does Cat say? Does she even think this will be a problem? Does she want to talk to him? That would violate the no contact thing wouldn't it?<P>Could she e-mail him with you sitting right there and tell him she doesn't want to have any contact with him at this thing? <P>You guys have definitely been going forward...I would hate for this to erase all the baby steps.<P>Cat...are you out there? What do you think about this?

TMD,<BR>Thanks. I appreciate your concern. <P>Beth,<BR>We both want to go to the party and she has already told me she will talk to him, even after I told her it would hurt me, so I guess I know where I stand. <P>I tried being up front and said we could go for a couple of hours then leave, he'll probably show up later since it is a 2 hour drive for him. I asked her not to talk to him or if he tried to talk to her to leave and come find me. And she asked if I was going to bring the leash to her choke collar. <P>Besides I don't think it is a threat if it is what she really wants. Also I can't make myself anymore attractive when he is all she thinks about. It just sucks. <P>TB,<BR>Cat knows I have a problem with it and no contact was established by her to determine what she wants not to save our marriage, and by continuing contact, I guess I know what she wants. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Sorry she is being such a pain . But if you do not want a divorce then don't do it. It seems she is trying to goad you into divorcing her so you does not have to do the hard work on your marriage. Don't relieve her guilt let her file if that what she wants. <P>Hey Cat you think you have guilt now just wait. If you marriage ends up in divorce and you go to OM the guilt will destroy that relationship, too.<P>Is that better?<p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited April 12, 2000).]

TMD,<P>Thanks!! <P><BR>If I file, it will be to relieve my guilt for being a sh!tty husband and to finally let her have the happiness she has wanted for the past 10 years. <P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com<p>[This message has been edited by Sparkydog (edited April 12, 2000).]

Is there anyway you can just "suck it up" and remember that she is there with YOU and NOT him? I know it would be really hard SD, but it might be a HUGE LB to make her feel she is on a "leash". <P>I guess I am in my anti-LB mode right now due to my own situation, so I might be biased. I am currently trying to avoid even the smallest LB at any cost. <P>Would she agree to just say "hi" and that is ALL? That might be a compromise. I know that you think you can't handle it and that it shows where you stand, but honestly you need to give her more time to have her love bank filled. You have not been back together long enough for her to feel the way about you that she does the OM.<P>It might fill her love bank by giving her enough freedom to not feel she is on a leash. She might really appreciate it...and given the fact that you are currently living together you should try to fill it every chance you get. Good old fashioned Plan A right? <P>Cat, if you are out there...would you be willing to compromise or set up a mini joint agreement for this one circumstance? I know this will be hard on you too! I am just afraid that at this "new stage" in the reconciliation...things could really get messed up due to raw emotions.<P>

Sparkydog,<P>I guess my counsel would be to just go to the party and see what happens. It may not go as either of you expect. I cannot make any guesses on the affair, but you and Cat maybe surprised.<P>I know this hurts alot and I know that you are losing hope that she will ever really try to save the marriage. If I were in your shoes I would feel the same.<P>However, she did agree to the no contact for a reason. All is not lost. Yes, she is being selfish but what else is new. Yes, she is in withdrawl and it will set her back, but the odds are high that while you are in pain, she may have more pain to deal with.<P>Sparkydog, you cannot hold back the tide with a teaspoon. You can only be the best H you can be. If that is not enough then she must face the consequences of what she does to you and the children. <P>So my recommendation, go to the party. Have a He.. of a fine time. Wish this friend of yours the best of luck and let Cat make her decisions. You really have no other choice so smile when you grab your ankles .<P>I know this is the pits, but it will pass. The ball is in Cat's court not yours. So there is no need to threaten anything. You just keep on keeping on. OK?<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Ideally, neither of you would go.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I tried being up front and said we could go for a couple of hours then leave, he'll probably show up later since it is<BR>a 2 hour drive for him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds like a good compromise.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I asked her not to talk to him or if he tried to talk to her to leave and come find me. And she asked if I was going to bring the leash to her choke collar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Unfortunately, this is probably 100% what I would have said if the tables were turned and I was in her shoes (not yours).<P>I really do understand both sides. You need her to not rub salt into the wound by talking to OM. She needs you not to rub salt into her wounds by trying to "control" her. <P>OK, it is far from ideal, but if I were you and this was the situation, I'd go and do my best to have fun. Don;t try and control whether she talks to him or any other aspect of her behavior (big LB). Try to distract yourself and enjoy talking with other people. Don;t grill her later abt what they talked about or how much.<P>Sounds next to impossible, doesn't it? I truly, truly feel for you, and hope things go well.<P>ehugs--<BR>Kathi

Ah, the old traumatic party thing.<P>Been there, done that. It's an ever-present dilemma for me.<P>My therapist suggested last week when I was dealing with this that I stick to my H like glue if Dragon Lady shows up. Perhaps you want to do the same.<P>The real question is this: Who does she want?<P>I like the idea of you guys going early to put in your appearance, then cutting out and perhaps doing something fun on your own.

Please don't be so hard on yourself! Like JL said you can only try and be the best H you can be. Sorry if I I am hard on Cat a close family member of mine is going thru something similar. It just causes me to lose perspective.<P>As for the past 10 years I am sure she was not the perfect wife either. Don't beat yourself up over it.

BTW, I'm asking you to do what I'm not really sure I can do. Just the thought of being in a room with the OW from H's work makes me shiver. It makes me SO MAD! The thing about my situation is that my H isn't interested in her. <P>I would probably have reacted the same way too though. I have done it in the past..."I don't even want you to LOOK at her..." <P>Anyway...if you could be a bigger person than me, maybe you won't end up where I am. <P>I hope not!<P>Good luck you two!

TB,<BR>Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to ask about the mini joint agreement I guess. I'm mostly scared that we'll get there and then they'll talk all night and I get stuck as the ultimate third wheel. We even talked about taking two cars. <P>JL,<BR>As always, good advice. Thanks for all you've done. Hey I don't mind bending over backwards to make things work, it's the bending over forwards that sucks, well not always, but in this case it does. <P>Kathi,<BR>Okay, let me get this straight. Go, have fun, don't let it bother me externally when she talks/dances with OM, don't try to control, don't ask what they talked about, no love busters. Got it. Now, would it be a LB if I happen to rip his head off and [censored] down his throat? Just kidding. Maybe. <P>Dazed,<BR>Thanks for your advice, but I think clinging to Cat would be just as bad as controlling her.<BR>BTW the answer to your question is OM. She just can't leave for various reasons that just don't matter anymore.<BR>I would love to put in the appearance and leave, but...going home alone doesn't appeal to me. LOL<P>TMD,<BR>Sorry, got to be tough on myself or I'll slip up. Besides, she was as close to perfect as it gets. The only non perfect things were how she dealt with me and my problems. <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Hey SparkyDog (I wish there was a way to put ears on that thing LOL)<P>I had the greatest post going... and then I lost my connection.... so here it goes again.....<P>I think that with a little understanding and some compromise you can both make it through this party ~**~ <B>Together</B> ~**~. You are in the most difficult part of recovery... keep up the Plan A!<P>Here comes my 2 cents worth... <P>FIRST ~~ <B>DON'T</B> take seperate cars!!!!<BR>Do what ever you have to do to keep this from happening... including, but not limited to: flattening all 4 tires on one of them, or steeling the sparkplugs or battery, or you could.... well, you get the idea .<P>Now, some random thoughts.... from Butterfly Brain! <P>I know seeing Cat talk to OM is going to be hard.... but remember: She is going to this party <B>with YOU</B>. Imagine how you would feel if you were there and she showed up with him.... it's not nice at all (been there, done that). It's devistating.... NOW... remember that he will know that the two of you are there TOGETHER!! <P>You can't keep Cat from talking to him, looking at him, seeing him.... Yes, I know it sucks, but it's the truth... What you can do is control (it's hard) your reactions and outward expressions to this situation. She already knows it's going to hurt you and the rest is up to her.<P>OK.... Here come some final random thoughts... (bet you thougt I'd never quit! )<P>Consider these possibilities:<P>He could not show up (maybe someone will steal his sparkplugs). <P>He could show up with a date. <P>He could be rude and mean (showing himself for what he is).... <P>Is it possible that you could get Cat something to let her know how special she is to you.... doesn't have to be extravagant or expensive.... maybe some <I>new</I> perfum or a charm braclet to wear Friday night? Something that will be a positive reminder of you (accompanied with an apology for making her feel like you are trying to control her). Just a thought.<P>Ok, I'm going to let you let your eyes rest now [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]... LOL LOL :<P>Thoughts & Prayers for you both!<BR>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

Well gosh, my ears are burning <P>Not a whole lot to say other then Allen asked me if I was going to talk to OM, to which I replied:<P>Well honestly..probably. <P>We were going to take second cars because Allen was already going to be over there. <P>And most of all, (stomp my foot) kidding!<BR>I really really *dislike* being told what I can and can't do and being controlled.<P>I know Allens feelings on the situation.<P>And no I was NOT the perfect wife Allen, but thank you for the compliment. I left many many things to be desired. (actually I would agree with TMD's assessment of my behavior )<P>Cat

Hi Cat!<P>I must say, I know the feeling of "you can <I>ask</I> me not to do something.... but don't <I>tell</I> me I can't!" Sometimes we may really be asking... but it sounds like telling. <P>I've been know to do things that people <B>tell me</B> I can't do..... just to prove to them I <B>can and will</B> do them! <P>How about a compromise???? You don't aproach the OM to talk to him, but if he comes up to you, you don't have to ignore him...... I don't know if this is a good idea or not, just trying to offer suggestions.<P>Hugs to you both!<P>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj<p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited April 12, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sparkydog:<BR><B>A good friend of mine is leaving our company and a going away party is scheduled for this Friday and Cat and I are/were planning to attend. This good friend is OM's best friend and will show up also.<P>I've already said if she decides to talk to OM I will give her what she wants, divorce. We talked extensively about trying to save our marriage last night and now this comes up. Cat can't get over the guilt or the desire to be happy w/ OM and I can't blame her.<P>She says it's not me, that it is her and her inability to try or to want it, but I realize it doesn't matter who or where or why anymore, just the end result is going to be the same.<P>Guess I'm just lost. Any flashlights out there? <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If she is up to it, I would respectfully decline and do something else together. What she fails to understand that happiness is ALWAYS situational. It would die with him as well. She forgets that she was once happy with you. All relationships require hard work which some think the feeling is the end all to be all.<P><P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

So TMD..what did you really want to say? <P>why do I have the feeling that edited post was directed at me? <P>Don't be afraid to tell me what you think. I am sure it is not anything I haven't heard from myself or Sparky already. <P>Cat<BR>