Hi all,<BR>I have been trying to work on my marriage (sort of) it is quite a feat. Anyway I still haven't felt a total peace about my decision, and feel mainly I am trying for the sake of my kids. They adore their father and he is an awsome father. I always said, I couldn't have created a better father for my children. (other than the very obvious character flaw) It killed me when my son cryed at night for his father. My daughter took it hard too but not as bad as my son. He said one night, if mommy makes you leave, I am going with you. Talk about heartbreak. He unfortunatly overheard us one night and said that the next day. Anyway, they have been doing much better since he's been home, my daughter has improved at school and seems happier. <P>I don't really know if I should believe the statisic about kids from divorced homes. I think that my h would stay very active in their lives and the kids would be able to see him whenever they wanted to. I do however beleive it to be in their best interest to come from a two parent household. I just don't know if this is the only way they will grow up to be wonderful, happy adults.<P>Do most people stay for the children's sake? I say that if it weren't for them, he would be gone. So if that were true, then I obviously think WE shouldn't be together. If it were just about US, but it is not, so do I put aside my own feelings and moral standards for my children? What am I teaching them, that you can cheat badly, and still have your family. Nothing really bad happens to you, am I giving the message to my daughter that you have to take whatever comes your way, because you said I do? I am so confused on what is right here. Any answers?<P>Thanks

Crushed,<P>From the perspective of parents with children...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001477.html" TARGET=_blank>If you think infidelity doesn't affect the kids....</A>!<P>It's hard to go wrong... when you do what's right!<P> <P>Jim

I'm not familiar with your story....has your husband's affair ended? Is he remorseful and repentant? Is he willing to work through the healing process with you?<P>I believe the best gift you can give your children is to build a solid marriage to raise them in. Even when infidelity occurs, it doesn't have to mean the end of the marriage if the unfaithful spouse ends the affair and works on the marriage. Yes, it does require the wounded spouse being willing to know the truth and stay in the marriage through the healing process. <P>But staying in the marriage and working through the healing process doesn't let the unfaithful spouse off the hook. It is a roller coaster ride that is agony for months.....the unfaithful spouse has to face the anger and despair of their wounded partner, as well as living with the knowledge of what they've done. If you go through the process in the right way, you both heal and your children learn important lessons about dealing with disappointment. They learn that you don't run away when things get hard.....they learn that sometimes we do things in marriage to hurt each other, but that you can heal that hurt and build something better if you work together.....if you turn to God, they learn that He is the answer to every problem life can throw at you.....they can learn about faith and trust and real love.<P>I think it can be very healthy for everyone to let your children bond you together while you heal. But you both have to <B>choose</B> to heal....you have to do the work.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31<P>

In answering your question I am going to tell you what happened in my parent's marriage.<P>My father was a serial adulterer. 20 to 30 sexual affairs over a period of about 4.5 years. In those days, there was still a social stigma about divorce plus my mother had 5 kids under age of 6 and had no job skills. She felt she had to put up with it for the sake of the kids. They tried to maintain the marriage but you know what they were both miserable and unhappy and it affected their abilities as parents. <P>My mother finally divorced him once the youngest started school. And it was the best thing she could have done. Us kids actually got to see our father and spend quality time with him (never had time before Divorce between affairs and work). both of them were much happier and because of that were better parents. They were divorced for 5 years and then got back together. They have been back together for 27 years. He has been a faithful husband all those years.<P>For myself his affairs affected me more than the divorce. It still hurts sometimes when I see photos or think about something from those years. He missed a large portion of his childrens growing up. <P>I just don't believe staying togther for the sake of the children is always the right thing. I feel people should work harder and make every effort to save their marriage when there are children. But there has to something more than that. Just my .02 worth

For 18 years, I never once questioned my H's devotion to the kids. He did not initiate much deep verbal communication with them, but he always demonstrated his love for them in acts of service; he was always willing and happy to take them wherever they wanted to go, to do whatever they needed, etc.<P>I had hoped that at least he would continue in that vein after he left for the OW, and he did, for a brief while (at least the 4 who still wanted anything to do with him). But as time has passed, that has changed completely. He has called them only a few times in over a year. He now sees them for 75 minutes a week for dinner (plus or minus about 5 minutes), and every other weekend - but only two at a time, so they actually visit him only once a month. <P>Don't believe the fantasy of the H staying active in their lives. Doesn't very often happen, and almost never when there is an OW who wants him to have as little to do with his family as possible.

The above poster is right imploring you not to support the fantasy that Daddy stays involved in the kids' lives once he's not living there. From my experience and from hearing about many others' experiences, this is not happening. Once he is physically gone, he will, in many ways, be emotionally absent as well. He will miss the kids terribly at first and do anything in his power to see them. It does not stay this way, however. Soon his compulsion to support his current lifestyle will supersede all conscience and guilt and he will be "out there" with the OP, he will be using his spare time for himself (sleeping, watching tv, going out), soon his senses will be dulled about the thing that was most important in his life before he left: the children. You will wonder what happened to this wonderful father? The children will live in total bewilderment and constant pain. You will attempt to reason with him (when you have that rare chance) about how his indifference and unavailability are affecting his children and he will not listen. You will lie awake at night demanding to know in your heart what went wrong and how could this perfect father have turned into someone so apathetic?<BR>So...my answer to you is: Yes, it is worth staying together for the sake of the children, especially if he is a wonderful father because, believe me, he will not be such a wonderful father once he is physically out of your lives. If you think things are tough in your marriage now, wait till he's gone for a considerable length of time. Your heart will break for the newly created pain your children will more than likely experience on a daily basis.

STaying because of the children...<BR>well it depends in a lot of things.<BR>I once believed it wasn't worth much, and I still do , in cases were abuse is the rule, the environment is full of fights or physical violence.<BR>However that is not so im most cases. Yes we might argue, but that i itself doesn't have to affect the children more than divorce would, specially since most of us, do have a tendency to avoid that kind of situation in front of the kids. And yes, they will feel that there is some sort of strain in their lives, but again not as much as if there was a divorce.<P>I find that staying for the children might be a good start. It' a choice. The person chooses to stay because of the kids, but as time passes and both are trying to resolve the other issues that is not the main reason anymore. As things are done together with the children and for the adults have a chance to reconect and regain feeligs for each other.<P>Of course for that to happens, both have to be open for it, and do the work, but I found that it happens quite a lot.<P>Another situation that I found happening quite a lot, is when the betrayer finally ends the affair, but uses the children as an excuse ( chicken, I know but I've seen it happen, along with other similar excuses ). It might even be said in honesty, thinking that the only reason the afair needs to end is because of the children, but quite often - and again - after some time passed the couple is staying because they found each other again and not only because of the children.<P>Of course, as with everything, there are no guarantees, but it happens many times, and it's as good as a reason to stay as any other, I feel.<P>Take care<BR>Kat

Crushed...I don't know what your story is, but I take it that your husband had some kind of an affair. <P>Kids are very smart and if you are feeling a ton of anger towards your H they are going to pick up on this...no one can tell you what is best for your children, but you and your H. It is great to know he is a good father. <P>The decision for me to file for divorce was gut wrenching. The deciding factor came when I heard my 13 year old speak to me the way my H does. It was chilling. I don't want my boys to grow up thinking it is okay to be verbally abusive to women; especially their wife. Since my decision to file, my H has told our children that they were going to be poor, that he would have to spend their college money for a divorce he doesn't want. I have so much anger for him over what he had done to the kids and the sad part is he doesn't see it. He feels perfectly justified to hurt people; even his children. Anyway, in my case, I think the kids will be better off. My H is not the best of fathers and though this whole situation is a nightmare, in the long run, I think they will be better.<P>Good luck with your decision.

LonelySoul,<P>Given that your H has said hurtful things to your children for his own benefit, you might want to consider sending the kids to counseling to cope with the divorce, so that they know it's not their fault, so that they know they are still loved and always will be. What hurts kids most in a divorce is when parents use them as pawns in the battle between themselves. It sounds like your H is trying to do that.

I do believe that you should try everything possible to stay together. <P>It is amazing...even after everything that has happened between me....the children....and my stbx.....the children had been asked quite recently if they had three wishes, what would they be. They both still said their number one wish....."for my parents not to get a divorce". I believe children, any age, want the "family" thing. They want their mom and dad under the same roof.<P>My stbx and myself...very rarely fought.....so our children have seen far more fighting during the divorce than they ever saw in their 10 & 8 years alive. They have heard so many lies....seen so much anger....they have seen too many tears, not only from me.....<P>Even if you think that you are willing to make your divorce as amicable as possible....it doesn't mean it will happen.<P>My girls long for their family back together. They have seen a man they barely recognize anymore and wished for things to be different...be back the way they were. It breaks my heart.....and after they go to bed at night....sometimes it moves me to tears.<P>You always want to give your child every thing....everything that makes them happy...but I can't...I can't give them their family back, and they would gladly give up every Barbie, stuffed animal, bike and toy to have that.<P>I am so happy that I am stronger now....so happy that I have made it through some horrible tough times, with many more to come....but I will never feel the happiness I felt when my family was together....good or bad.<P>Nancy

Crushed,<BR>Are Children affected....YES! But how they cope with the pain of fighting parents is up to you and your H. The two of you need to determine how you will act in front of your children. And, how the two of you will talk about the other one when that one is not present...all needs to be agreed on and stuck to!<P>My parents divorced. It was the best thing for both of them. Did their problems end? NO! Had they learned what they needed to just because they found someone else...NO!<BR>My father ended up giving in to a very head strong woman who still tells him what he can/can't do in regards to us...his grown children. Do they have a good relationship...well from the perspective that they've learned how to "put up" with each other and haven't divorced????<BR>My Mother married a head strong man. After many years of fighting...they somehow have improved their relationship and do communicate effectively....both listening to the other and negotiating.<P>How were we/the children affected?<BR>BIG TIME! But, my Father made an effort to stay there with us...even if it was for dinner on Weds and everyother weekend. We know he loves us...even though everything my mom got out of him was a fight. My childhood stopped when they divorced. But, I've made it a priority to learn how to live with the same person for years on end and improve my marriage. I may have lost my childhood...but my kids won't and I WILL WIN TOO! Because, I've taken the steps to build a strong foundation for this "new marriage" I'm entering into with my wandering H (who no longer wanders and has done his share of homework too).<P>So, I guess what I'm telling you is...make a pact with your H on how you will act around and for them. (My stepmother and her H were very good with this...why she didn't allow my Father the same privilege with his own kids is beyond me)<P>And, if you want a structured environment to help you and your H learn how to communicate and get back on track...visit the web site I suggested before. I can't tell you how many of the 40+ couples at our weekend said they felt they could have never gotten so far with one hour per week counseling sessions. There were also many couples who had filed or were filing for divorce...that stopped. And, there were 3 couples who had been divorced and were there with their new spouses. <A HREF="http://WWW.Retrouvaille.org" TARGET=_blank>WWW.Retrouvaille.org</A> <P>You'll never know how your own situation will end up...but you can try to make it better.<BR>

I believe that if the parents arent happy in the marriage then neither will the children be.<P>It is better for the childrent to have 2 parents who are happy and divorced than 2 unhappy parents who fight all the time , just to stay together for the children.<BR>because sooner or later it will affect your children.<BR>

bijzonder,<P>First of all, where exactly does one find these happy divorced parents? It is extremely rare for both parents to be happier divorced, and very often neither parent is. Is it better to have two unhappy divorced parents than an intact family, whether the parents are happy or not? It is obviously better to have an intact family where the parents are working to make the marriage better.<P>Children are often completely unaware that their parent(s) are unhappy. It is just a bunch of self-justifying psychobabble to say that children will be unhappy just because their parents are. Our kids thought we were happy (as did I, at least until he was deep into the affair). <P>And why on earth would anyone assume that parents fight all the time before they get divorced? In many cases, one parent is completed blindsided.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 16, 2000).]

I think people forget that children do not think like adults. Children are selfish; they are suppose to be selfish. They don't want anything to rock their world, so providing they can stay in the same school and have the same friends, they don't care. I am not being critical of children either; they are children. Parents of children, divorced or not, are the example of how married people act. This is where, we as adults can truly screw kids up. Should a H or W stay in a verbally or emotionally abusive relationship to keep the family together? Is this how we want our son to treat his wife...is this the message we give our daughter...that's its okay to be talked to without respect? I agree, if the couple is having trouble they should try to peserve the marriage, but if you can't, and if there is any kind of abusive, or substance problem, are we doing the kids any good? What is the message we are sending? I know people whose parents stayed together for the sake of their kids and their kids don't respect them at all for putting up with it. The kids grow up and move out and you are still there, a lot older, and still in an unhappy marriage. I think we have to weigh the positives and negatives and look at things realistically and long term. It is better to have the family stay together, but if things are truly miserable and are not going to get better, it is better to have two nurturing loving divorced parents than two cranky miserable parents living together.<P>

A lot depends on the situation...<P>Some marriages are not happy, but are not angry and abusive...in this case, staying because of the kids makes good sense. Staying and working on the marriage is even better.<P>Of course, if the marriage is bitter, angry & abusive it is not healthy for anyone involved. However, divorce may or may not actually improve the kids homelife--the adults often become bitter & angry divorced parents...which is probably not a good solution either. One of the most miserable friends I had growing up was a girl who's dad had been abusive (and stayed abusive the few times she saw him) and who's mother never got over her bitterness at his leaving (and ruined any joy her family had in anything the rest of the time).<BR>

Lonelysoul,<P>Are you saying that their friends are more important to kids than whether their family is together? Are you claiming that kids don't care if a parent is gone as long as their friends are still there???<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They don't want anything to rock their world, so providing they<BR> can stay in the same school and have the same friends, they don't care. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is completely incorrect. Family is far more important to children than friends and school. Yes, kids are self-centered, and care more about their happiness than that of their parents - and parents are supposed to care more about the happiness of their kids than their own. Yet another reason to stay together. As long as the marriage is not abusive, children are almost always happier in an intact marriage.<P>And where exactly do you find these loving, nuturing divorced couples? It is far more typical for the kids to end up with one parent who may be loving and nuturing, but is also overworked, overstressed, and without enough money to support them properly, and another parent who cares more about his or her new partner/family than the children from the first marriage.