Hi Friends...<P>Just finished talking to Steve Harley again... (third time)<P>Guess what... I'm still in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<P>Again he sees my patience as an asset that could/should carry me through... even through the divorce... (first trial date June 5th)!<P>Since there is absolutely <B>no</B> "softening" by my W (as Steve called it)...<BR>...I have to keep on going with my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<P>Unlike Chris' "long distance" (no contact) <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...since there is contact during my W's visitations... my "pot" is already being stirred!<P>It is only when I see some softening on her part toward me...<BR>...that there is a sign of "trouble in paradise"... and I am once again an alternative to the fantasty world... that's when <B>I</B> should consider <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... or if my love for my W starts hitting rock bottom. If I gave her a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> letter now... my W would only see it as a form of "manipulation/control"...especially in regards to the kid's visitations.<P>I told Steve about my concern for reserving the "education" money for the kids(in a trust fund)... {how the courts are unlikely to "freeze" or "reserve" any money in my 401K for the kids... W & I will be forced to come to terms about $$ for kid's education...(no indication of that <B>at all</B>)}!<BR>...and Steve whole heartedly agrees that if she got the money (especially if she saves nothing for the kids)... it would be an <B>enabler</B> for her... to continue in her fantasy world. It would be up to me to determine whether... her holding the money away from the kids would be enough of a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>... to drain my Love Bank... or...<BR>Her spending the money on the OM and his family would be enough of a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>.<P>Steve did suggest pushing every way possible to save the money for the kids... both for... the benefit of the kids... and to decrease the "enabling money aspect" of my W's affair. He said it was OK to get a more agressive(euphamistically said) attorney if it was needed! And to persue getting my stepson's SS benefit money as well.<P>He did say... if he had to say one way or another... that the odds are... I will be getting a divorce. <BR>The reality of the state laws here in NJ preclude virtually any other outcome... I guess Steve is just preparing me for the inevitable too... smart guy. He did say... sometimes when the "mystery lifts" after a marriage (W marrying OM)... reality can come to light. Of course this may be too late.<P>Therefore, Steve suggests to stay with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...as he suggests to everyone... <B>for as long as you can</B>...<BR>...in my case... even after the divorce... if I still have love for my W. I guess once my W and OM marry... (or some time after divorce at least)... it's time to put away the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> as well. Looks like some more time on the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=34&SUBMIT=Go" TARGET=_blank>Divorcing/Divorced</A> forum for me.<P>Now for the bad news...<BR>...Steve sees how much time I spend on the forum...<BR>...and suggests I cut back...<BR>...that if I don't cut back... I will burn out... <P>Well... there will be the natural breaks I have to take...<BR>I'm going to Florida from Sunday April 23 through May 2... so I won't be here... and I'll have an extend vacation during the summer...<BR>And... of course there was the surgery in February that knocked me off the forum for 2-3 weeks...<P>...so... I probably won't cut back right away...<BR>...especially with the divorce trial set for June...<BR>...but in time... you may see just a little less of me...<BR>(NOT RIGHT AWAY)<P>I love you guys...<BR>...and I still need your support too.<P> <P>Jim

I am glad that you filled us in about your session with Steve. I am off today and am concidering calling the radio show for some advice.<P>YOU have done a great plan A with your wife. I do believe it makes my H upset with me, that I keep being nice, being there for him when he is so mean to me sometimes ect. But he has noticed and when he emailed me last week he told me that I have stood by him through all of this and he did not know why. So I guess the plan A is working. I know that your wife is noticing it too.<P>But I agree that you have to take care of your kids financially. That if she gets the money it will enable her to keep her fantasy world going.<P>You inspire us all!!!!<P>

Hi NSR -<P>Thanks so much for sharing what Steve had to say. You know that you and I are at the same place with this divorce poopy and since I can't afford to call Steve it is nice to benefit from his advice through you - you're a doll!!!<P>I agree with what he said about taking time from the board...I have done that (both on my own and by losing internet for a while) and it helps tremendously to get some other things accomplished or just by giving the old brain something else to think about!! <P>But, like you said - with the vacation and the past health episode, you have made steps in that direction. We will both need to be here for our divorce journeys if we want to stay emotionally healthy. I figure that I am probably a lifer with the Whack-a-doodle I have!!!<BR>LOLOLOLOL!!!!<P>Clear up something for me if you can - when speaking of seeing some softening towards you and that being the time for Plan B - did Steve mean a softening consistantly over a period of time or was he saying a glimpse or two? I would think that he meant consistant - no?<P>Like you, I feel that my H would only ee a plan B as manipulative and controlling and would have a very adverse effect on him. Besides being somewhat stupid being that he wants a divorce anyway!! Agree?<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Hugs...<P>Hang in there guy...You'll make it.

I'll make more frequent replies this time...<BR>...it's a busy week for me!<P><B>my3kids</B>...<BR>Thank you for your reply...<BR>I think I'll fall off my chair if my W ever sends me an e-mail about how "I stuck through this waiting for her!" I just resign myself to the "go to hE!!", "you bast***", "a**hole" ones a while longer. They don't grow on me... but have to flow off my shoulder.<P>I'll do all I can to protect the kids...<BR>...but it is such an uphill battle<BR>...and the court system just makes it harder and harder...<P>I'm praying for you... <P><B>Sheba</B>...<BR>Do you know how much I love hearing from you?!!! <BR>About time <B><I>away</I></B> from the forum...<BR>...I can't do as much as Steve suggests.<P>I really believe another reason he wants me to to reduce my time is so that I won't get disillusioned with the apparent lack of success of the MB methods. When I came here... I knew my W's condition... It is her "condition" that would cause any failure... not the MB concepts/techniques!!! Without my time on this forum... <B>I WOULD BE A BASKET CASE</B>!!!! By helping others... I really am helping myself... whether it is to get back with my W... or eventually learn to disconnect from my W and find a new relationship(and to make it work)... <B>I NEED TO BE HERE</B>! I have never cried so much... nor laughed so much... nor been as alive as when I'm here (<B>EXCEPT TIME WITH MY KIDS!!! OF COURSE</B>!) With the shear humanity here... I may never escape (even if/when my W comes back)! Cut back... yes... but not escape from.<P>Sorry for the tangent...<BR>OK... about your question...<BR>"...did Steve mean a softening consistantly over a period of time or was he saying a glimpse or two?"<BR><B>I firmly believe</B>... he(Steve) was looking for a consistant... clearly observable... regular... long term pattern of 'softening'... not just a flash in the pan.<P>Yes... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... doesn't make sense for me now... not because my W wants the divorce... but because there is<BR>1. No softening of her heart toward me.<BR>2. I still have some love for her.<P>If either of these changes... then I can consider <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>. Sheba, I hoped that helped.<P>Please take care of yourself...<BR>...you are such a wondeful person!<P><B>Beth</B>...<BR>You're absolutely right...<BR>...I'm going to make it!!! <P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>It's been a long time since I've been here, but I recognized you immediately.<P>I'm sorry that you are still in this situation. As always you seem to be a rock...a pillar of faith and strength and I know God will take care of you.<P>I don't know if you remember me, but I wanted to share good news...proof there is always hope.<P>I was minutes away from leaving my seemingly unloving wife for another woman. To make this short...the other woman showed her true colors (blacks and shades of gray) and so did my wife (brilliant colors--love). Now, my family is doing great (which is why I no longer dwell here)<P>Just when I thought I couldn't take it any longer-God was telling me,"wait one more day." And he was right. It took all the strength I had, but I didn't give up and He gave me what He promised.<P>I pray that you have the courage to go on, the strength to put your family before yourself and the humility to submit yourself to God's will.<P>Take care, Jim<P>Peter

Jim,<P>I can relate to the burnout, that is how I feel sometimes. Although I hate to not see you around here as much, that is what is best for your own personal strength right now.<P>I admire your strength and dedication to your marriage and to everyone on the forum, and we need you just as much as you need all of us.<P>Your gonna make it . Even if you have to get this divorce, you are a good person and you will survive this. I only wish you could have the outcome you truly want.<P>Have a nice trip and take a much needed break. <BR>Dana<BR>

<B>Peter</B>...<P>Of course I remember you...<P>Your story makes me happy... Really happy <P>I really am relying heavily on my faith and the strength God gives me...<BR>...I know I credit a lot to this forum...<BR>...but that's only because God is speaking to me through so many of you!!!<P>Peter... if you could say a prayer or two for me... I'd appreciate it.<P>I know Steve was preparing me for the divorce...<BR>...and I've even been preparing myself for it...<BR>...but when it comes... it will still be crushing to me.<P>Thank you brother... <P><B>Dana</B>...<BR>You are so... so... so... kind.<BR>You guys keep making me cry... <P> <P>Jim

NSR,<P>I dont really know what to say here. I just want to lift you up a little though. <BR>I want you to know what an inspiration you have been to me and my family. You keep hanging in there no matter what. If this doesnt make it. I know that Gods got a better thing in store for you. I must say that you are truly someone to admire. Everytime I see a topic about Plan A, and them wanting to give up. I think of you. How you have just hung in there.<P>Keep your chin up. You can do this.<BR>BTW, How long has she been having this affair?<BR>Prayers<BR>Renee

<B>Renee</B>...<P>Thanks for the lift...<BR>...hearing from Steve about the divorce... dropped by spirits a bit...<P>...and then you guys have a way of lifting them again... why would he ever want to cut back from this forum... <P>W started an EA around December (Christmas) 1998...<BR>Met OM in January 1999... turned physical sometime in February 1999... D-day April 7th 1999... She filed for divorce 3 weeks later... I filed June 28... She left August 28th. I found MB September 27th...<BR>I was doing a psudeo-Plan A up until that time... and have gradually refined it... but still no softening of her heart.<P>Thank you for your interest.<P> <P>Jim

Jim, <P> Imagine me sitting here drumming my fingers on my desk and thinking... Oh well, as we have discussed, it is not ours to decide. We will do what we can while we can until called to do something else. Keep your chin up my friend.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Just thought I'd give my encouragement with my story. After a lengthy affair, unknown to me, wife left, divorced me. 3 years later she threw the OP out, we started dating and now back together. Talking to Steve. Would classify us as a 9/10ths. success story. Lots to sort out still but it's coming. Have posed a few questions on MB forum and have gained a great deal of prespective from many of the threads.<BR>Best wishes and good luck to all.

<B>Paul</B>...<BR>Give unto the Lord...<P><B>LooksGood</B>...<BR>It may be what He has in store for me...<BR>...I keep my mind and heart open.<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<BR>Just letting you know that I read your post.<P>You truly do have patience.<P>We will miss you while you are out of town.bethn<P>

Hi NSR -<P>Now Jim...we have enough gloomy-Gus's around here and I will NOT let you join them!!!! Do you hear me mister? (finger wagging - hand on hip!!!) SNAP out of it!!!<P>I think that Steve only told you to cut back for your own emotional health and you know it too!! He didn't mean to give up.....he meant that YOU need to stay as strong emotionally as possible and to do that you also have to know how to live daily after the divorce.<P>I haven't even spoken with him and this is what I feel.....Somedays you just have to allow yourself NOT TO THINK about marriage and relationships!! <P>Both you and I will be divorced people - but what changes in our hearts? That piece of paper doesn't push my love button to OFF - will it do that to yours? I don't think so.....<P>Look at what LooksGood has to say....WOW!!!!!! <P>See, anything is possible when our spouses come out of the fantasy...as long as we remain the strong and loving person that we have learned how to be here. <P>If it is meant for us to find another after divorce - then I suppose we will feel that way when the time comes. I am certainly not going to go to a Plan B when I am divorced - and I don't even have the children factor to try to fit in with that!!!<P>Why would you say you need Plan B? You didn't say it here but I caught it on another thread.....just low talk - I hope?<P>This time we have spent "waiting" while they are in an affair should be spent realizing that we CAN continue on and that WE HAVE continued on with our lives and our responsibilities...nothing has changed once a divorce decree is signed as far as our feelings.<P>I don't want you to become down about this Jim.....NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE and NOTHING IS FINAL while an affair is ongoing. WE may just be losing a battle but not necessarily the War!!!<P>So, pick your little fanny up off the floor and get back on your optimistic horse and ride with me.....that is an MB Warrior Princess ORDER!!!!! LOL!!!!<P>Now - On to what you said about Steve's meaning of consistant softening...I fully agree with your statement of it being the WS "condition" that leads this whole thing. IT IS NOT THE MB PRINCIPLES!!!! We haven't gotten to use most of them, yet!!! <P>My H (ole' Whack-A-Doodle) shows many signs of softening...then just does a serious and rapid 180 - definitely not MR CONSISTANT!!! Guess I don't have to worry about this then huh? LOL!!<BR> <BR>I still feel very lucky to have learned these principles for several reasons....the first being the self-assessment that we did/do and how we can better ourselves. I know sooooo much now compared to before I found this site....don't you? Doesn't it feel great!!! <P>Like you - I hope to share this all with H someday....but if not then I can share it with whoever else God sees fit to bring into my life!!! I know that I WILL NEVER have to go through this again. At least not with all the uncertainty and aloneness that I experienced this time.<P>These principles are also great for other relationships - I cannot tell you how often I find myself using them with family and friends!!! I am so aware of things now!!<P>Yes, it is disheartening that our situations seem so destined for divorce and an "ending" - but it's not!! If divorce leads to a new and better beginning (with or without our spouses) than I consider myself lucky to have had this road lead through MB first!!! I know you feel the same.<P>You spoke of the "sheer humanity" found on these boards....boy, you are sure right about that. I was very discouraged with humankind from seeing the lack of compassion, morals, honesty and respect of others that surrounded me through H and his "new crowd". I was seriously wishing that the Apocalypse would really come about soon!!!<P>I don't feel that way anymore...thanks to the people like you that I have met here. THANK YOU for that!!! You are a very wonderful person also!! <P>You know what? US wonderful and enlightened people are going to be OK when all is said and done!!! <P>I love Ya and stay on the darn horse or it's back to the chocolate post for you!!!! LOLOLOLOL!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

<B>bethn</B>...<BR>I'll be missing you too... <P><B>Sheba</B>...<BR>God I love you... <P>Yes... I'll get out of my funk...<BR>...it takes a little time<BR>...but your finger waving to doing wonders! LOL<P>"Somedays you just have to allow yourself NOT TO THINK about marriage and relationships!!"...<BR>I guess <B>that</B> is hard... when I spend so much time on the forum... maybe it's one more reason to take those occasional breaks. <P>"Why would you say you need Plan B? You didn't say it here but I caught it on another thread.....just low talk - I hope?"<BR><B>Well... you read me again</B>... but if my W doesn't hit that low point (being financially enabled keeps her from that point)... it means I have more than just a divorce coming my way... I have her marriage to the OM... I think that's what makes my situation a bit disheartening...<BR><B>But</B>... this too... may be the way the Lord is leading me... I'll just have to follow His way... and trust in the Lord! <P>Hey... you know your speaking His words when you tell me "So, pick your little fanny up off the floor...". He doesn't want me to wallow in pity...<P>I'll be on my horse too... sooner than you think... maybe again by your side...Warrior Princess! <P>"I still feel very lucky to have learned these principles for several reasons..."<BR><B>Oh... you are so right!!!</B>...<BR>...and when I stay here on the forum...<BR>...I still am learning and <B>reenforcing</B> what I learn!<P>Sheba... thank you...<BR>...with your reply here... I'll get some sleep tonight (yes I know it's late.) <P>WE are going to be <B>more</B> than OK...<BR>...I know that for a fact!<P>{{{{{Hugs}}}}} right back to you!<P>Jim

Your patience and strengh and faith are remarkable. I have learned so much fromyour posts.<P>I'm still early in the process and have many discouraging moments. I come to this forum for support. I need to come here. Sometimes when I read to many posts (depends on takers or givers) I feel even more discouraged. <P>BUT then, I take out some threads that have been truly inspiring (that I've copied). The one that sticks in my mind here involves the WS's coming forth with info regarding how sorry they were now that they are in reality....even years later. I am thinking of one woman who quoted her brother who years before had an affair and now years later has apologized to his ex many times and has shown remorse and regret for what happened.<P>I personally know of a few other stories of WS's that married someone else and then went back to original spouse after they realized the grass is not greener. <P>I guess it takes some people a long time to mature emotionally....if ever huh!!!!!<P>Enjoy your trip!!!!! Stay grounded....which I know you are. (I am not always, but I am much better when I read your posts....don't feel like you have to STAY on MB though!!!!!!!)

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

<B>tootrusting</B>...<BR>Thank you...<BR>...for enjoying my posts/replies...<BR>Thank you...<BR>...for your words of hope... "being greener..."<BR>I really feel the need for some support from the people on the forum through this time of my divorce... so I won't go away...<BR>Maybe... in time my particpation may lessen... althougth I can't see that yet! Maybe I have too much yet to say... <P><B>hanora</B>...<BR>Oh precious sister of mine... <BR>I know a few that I have helped... and it is a very rewarding feeling...<BR>...what is really amazing is how much more I get back with everyone's kind words and well wishes.<BR>I'll be moving some more of my effort over to the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=34&SUBMIT=Go" TARGET=_blank>Divorcing/Divorced</A> forum... and made my first post as an official "Divorcing" member... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/000142.html" TARGET=_blank>Reluctantly... I'm here</A>... a self-healing kind of post.<P>I remember when you were going through this too... It broke my heart to see you suffer... but in this suffering... we still grow... and I know it's been said so often... grow <B>stronger</B>.<P>Thank you for your thoughts...<BR>You are one of many good friends here. <P>Jim