I have read the articles on dealing with resentment, but I havent found anything on dealing with the deeply personal dilema of morals and personal conviction.<BR>How does one deal with the inner turmoil of contradicting one's own morals of dealing with betrayal. I always said and tell my daughter to leave any man who abuses her mentally, physically or breaks the vows of marriage. I am not a deeply religous woman, but my wedding vows are very deeply sacred to me and he broke them. Yet i am still here and the hurt is not going away. I hate what he did to me almost as much as I hate myself for staying. HELP!<P>------------------<BR>Love & Light,<BR>Pep1024

Hi Pep -<P>Welcome to MB - I am glad that you found us and I hope that we can help you.<P>I can completely relate to what you are saying on this thread. I have had the same resentments and issues!! <P>All I can do is offer my story of how I worked through it.....OK?<P>My biggest problem was not only my H's breaking of the vows, but his complete loss of morals and character. The infidelity itself was minor in comparison to the lying, disrespect and loss of integrity that he allowed himself to degrade to. <P>What I did was look at my vows myself!!<P>"for better or worse" - hmmmm? OK, maybe this is the "worse" part...<P>"in sickness and health" - well, since infidelity is a sort of addiction and addiction is a sickness - then I suppose that this is the "sickness" part...<P>"til death do us part" - we are definitely not dead.....(although I DID come close to wringing his darn neck!!)<P>In order to keep to my vows - I had to let the "vow" part of my resentments go!! Yes, he did not "forsake all others"......but does that give me the right to forsake him? Not just by physically taking another - but in my abandoning my partner when he faltered?<P>I was angry and hurt by his actions - of course. Then I found MB and realized what may have contributed to his feeling so discouraged and needy that he took the wrong road.<P>I learned compassion.....I knew that I loved him - that was never a question. I just didn't think that I could respect, trust or like him anymore!!! I have a healthy self esteem so that wasn't too badly bruised...I admit that other people's negativity or self-righteousness gave me pause as to "how much do I have to take." But it wasn't too long before I discovered that I wasn't "taking" anything from him. What he was doing - he did purely out of his own selfish thoughts. My decision was - do I react with the same selfishness or is this the time for me to find strength and hold him up in his 'weak" time?<P>Through MB and learning what infidelity is and the process that couples need to go through - I have come to understand the state of "fantasy" and "escape" that it entails....<P>It makes you realize that he did not do this TO YOU.....but rather HE became weak and did this FOR HIMSELF!!!! <P>Then I come to the part about the morals, character, etc. My H and I were in a stressful situation....just life throwing us curves kind of stuff. Left us both vulnerable.....Bad timing and a new job with people not of the highest moral character just opened the door for him to be pulled into bad behavior. Their influence combined with an unstable moral upbringing combined to make his mental justifications allow him to break his vows and lose his integrity.<P>Did he do it on purpose to hurt me? NO<BR>Did he do it with any bad intentions? NO<BR>Did he just take an easy route instead of expressing his needs and resentments or problems? YES!!!<P>So, when you learn about infidelity and you come to realize how and why it occurs in most cases...it is much easier to let go of your anger and resentment and embrace compassion and hope!!!<P>I know that my husband loves me...he just doesn't love what stresses we had and doesn't know that they can be lifted if he just works with me. He is so entrenched in "fantasy" and his own quest for "happiness" that he doesn't feel that he has to work at making things better - "it should just happen" is his favorite quote!!!<P>Life doesn't just happen.....it's what we do to work at making what we want happen in the right way that will bring us happiness!!! This mindset and the reinforcement of these "friends" of his are what led to his breaking his vows and losing his character.<P>He is not himself....I look at him as a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality while he is in this messed up state. <P>His morals, character, integrity, sense of right and wrong are still there - they just seem to be buried under all the garbage he let himself fall into.<P>I Hope that this can somehow help you with putting all this into perspective. That is really the key.....understanding and perspective.<P>You or I are not any better than our spouses.....we were just lucky enough to be stronger on this occassion....perhaps it is up to us to help as much as possible. That is what partners do, isn't it?<P>BIG HUGS, Strength and Prayers to you. Please read all that you can and try to understand your spouse, not condemn them.....It is a better way to allow growth for yourself and for your marriage.<P>Sheba

Pep1024,<P>"I am not a deeply religous woman..."<BR><B>my claim to you is</B>... you are! <P>Take that as a good sign...<BR>...it(staying) is a sign of moral strength and fortitude you didn't know you had!<P>Be proud of yourself... <BR>...even if you can't carry out everything in MB to it's fullest... you're trying.<P>The one thing that this forum does... is give you support you can't find anywhere else. I don't care how many counselors you go to... even if it's directly to the Harley's...<BR><B>This forum</B>... has people with hearts so compassionate... so caring... so thoughtful... you'd think they're a bunch of guardian angels running around frantically looking for souls to save.<P>Answers to "personal dilema(s) of morals" may not be fully addressed...<BR>...but that is something to search for in yourself!<P>Starting on the formality of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... and for those that have to move on to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... gives you time to grow and introspectively find and <B>grow</B> your morals!<P>Now... as you move through these "plans"... you should rekindle what for you... it means to be a religious woman...<BR>...joining a church<BR>...going back to your childhood faith<BR>...reading... scripture or anything...<BR>You might want to look at my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000025.html" TARGET=_blank>Books</A> post... for (not just) "infidelity" books... but all the others as well.<P>I know I've been able to get a few of my fellow forum friends to pray... really pray... for the first time in a <B>very</B> long time. They tell me they've appreciated my efforts. If you don't know where to start... how about checking out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=25&SUBMIT=Go" TARGET=_blank>Women's Bible Study</A>. Lurk for a while... post when you're comfortable.<P>I'm praying for you tonight... <P>I sense some desparation...<BR>I sense some lonliness...<P>Hey... you probably haven't heard it lately...<BR><B>You are loved</B>...<BR>People here will love you... without ever seeing you...<BR>...that one kind of love never to fear...<BR><I>Be not afraid</I>... <P>Jim

Sheba said it so well!!!! I need to copy that and read it every day.<P>What she has said has kept me going though I have my days when I feel like the resentment gets the better of me.<P>My H is not living here. We are not on the road to recovery..though it seems like some baby steps have been made.<P>He also changed his entire personality. I have never known this man to lie. He has lied to everyone (probably mostly to himself). My H comes from a very loving close family. THis has come as a real blow to all concerned.<P>I had experimented with drugs in my youth and have known quite a few addicted people. When my H's personality changed so much so fast, I began snooping for drugs. He looked high and appeared to be "in withrawal" when he was coming home. The high he seemed to get was not only from OP but from being a workaholic. I am able to view this as a sickness. It doesn't always make it better, but I remind myself that people have to decide to help themselves, we can't do it for them.....<P>Sometimes I open the bible and find some great passages on "unconditional love" that help.<P>Plus, read all the books on infedelity that are out there...they help as well.

I, too, am constantly plagued by why I should stay with a man who is (was) an adulterer. My husband is doing everything right according to the books to make our marriage recover. (But he always did do everything right and still had an affair so what does it all mean?) I never thought there was a problem in my marriage and I will not take any responsibility for his affair. If I was making him unhappy I feel he should have come to me, not had an affair. I know if I had someplace to go, I would go. I can't figure out why I should stay with him--no why I should WANT to stay with him. To be honest, I am only here now for the financial security. I have been married 32 years and with my husband since I was 15. He wants so much to make all this up to me. I don't think it can be undone. I am terribly ashamed to be with an adulterer. Desperately need some words of encouragement. Sorry for the rambling, but I have nowhere to go. Haven't told any friends about this--they all think my husband is a saint. My shame will not allow me to expose him.

Pep:<P>You really have no idea what you will do, until faced with it. Let these "challenges" bring out the best in you. Sheba and Jim have given you great advice, and I really don't have anything to add (amazingly... )<P>Summertime:<P>You're stuck in the resentment phase, and you're also exhibiting "poor recovery behavior" by not trying to focus on what YOU have done to make the marriage less than successful. While you don't need to take the blame for the act of your husband's affair, you certainly should indulge in some self-inspection to see how your behaviors had impacted the marriage prior to this episode.<P>Your husband didn't come to you? Why??? Was he afraid, or unwilling to not be taken seriously (the two most common excuses). You need to support the rule of Honesty (one of the four rules for a successful marriage).<P>Did you always meet your husband's emotional needs?? Do you know what they are? This is the Rule of Care...<P>Have you protected your husband from your "ugly" side: angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, selfish demands, and dishonesty?? This is the Rule of Protection...<P>Were you spending enough time with your husband? 15 hrs/week of quality time is the recommended norm---this time is spent renewing and supporting your romantic love for each other, by doing things together that you enjoy, and that meet each other's needs (the Rule of Time).<P>I'd suggest that you give Steve Harley a call at Marriagebuilders (888-639-1639) and set up counseling for you. You're poised on the verge of getting the kind of marriage that you want and deserve, but you're letting your resentment get in the way. Steve will be able to help you manage this resentment, and help you get learn the skills to get your marriage to where you want it.

{{{{{{{{{{Summertime}}}}}}}}}},<BR>(...you don't know it... but some real veterans are replying here... Sheba... K...)<P>I think I can understand what your feeling...<P>The pain isn't going away...<BR>...and no matter what your H is attempting...<BR>...it doesn't feel good enough.<P>Please check out the following sites...<A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A> and <A HREF="http://forgivenessweb.com" TARGET=_blank>The Forgiveness Web</A>.<P>Do consider picking a one of the following books... all three were so highly recommended by people on the forum...<OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/034541344X" TARGET=_blank><B>The Art of Forgiving :</B> When You Need to Forgive and Don't Know How</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060674318" TARGET=_blank><B>Forgive and Forget </B>: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785282556" TARGET=_blank><B>The Choosing to Forgive Workbook</B></A> by Les Carter, Frank Minirth <BR></OL><P>And check out some of the older posts on these forums for some personal insights...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000076.html" TARGET=_blank>Can I forgive?????</A>…..indy032…..1/31/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006615.html" TARGET=_blank>How to rebuild my spouse's trust?</A>…..redman…..8/23/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000274.html" TARGET=_blank>Things my husband did to rebuild trust</A>…..HGBrawner…..3/17/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000293.html" TARGET=_blank>Making New Memories</A>…..HGBrawner…..3/25/2000<P>I hope these help...<P>I can't say I remember you posting before...<BR>...if I didn't catch you here...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>And yes... <B>K</B> is oh so right...<BR>...when stumbling blocks are starting to overwhelm you... counseling is more than just an option... consider it! <P> <P>Jim

Sheba, one heck of a post!!! I am going to copy it and send it to my wife because we never seem to be able to get to that point of discussion. I would like for us at the very least be able to understand one another...<P> Jim, thanks for posting the forgiveness websites and books. That's where my energy needs to be focused. I have become very angry the last few days, and I need a change of direction...<P>THANKS!!!<P>take care,<BR>theo<P>

Of course I feel like I have to add something else here. It's just the basic principal to Christianity (not just religion)and that is that we are basically a forgiving people.<BR>In the bible it saya "Judge not lest you be judged." "Let the one without sin be the one to throw the first stone." And somewhere in there "Justice is mine sayeth the Lord" All these mean different things to different people but ultimately one thing..........it is our job to forgivr and the Lords job to judge, as in this celebration of this hily time, why did Jesus die if not to teach us forgiveness? `I sometimes think God put this experience in my life so thar I might truly understand His word. God bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Thanks for your responses. I am not a very forgiving person in general so this is so much harder. And I can't understand how my husband could do this which somebody talked about in forgiving. And I have looked into myself and honestly do not feel I contributed to the problems. I was having a personal problem at the time and talked to my husband about how he would handle that. He said (lied) he could handle my problem and this was just a bump in the road. I gave him every opportunity to get out if he wanted. If he could not tell me his problems because he was weak I opened every door for him. He did not come through. He cheated. How do you ladies and men keep your dignity? I know what everyone said about Hilary Clinton when she stayed with her adulterer. I hate the thought that people are talking about me like that (if they were to find out). Really appreciate all your support. Must confess my therapist has given up on me. Says she never met such a stubborn person. I was not stubborn before this, honest!!

summertime, the fact that you are coming to this site, means you are seeking help. (I think)!!!! This is great. <P>There is so much wisdom and faith here. It has been helping me heal. <P>I think I would probably be more forgiving to my H than the OP (can you believe that) I have always expected it from her. I did not expect it from my H. I trusted him...but like many long relationships, there are issues that come up from time to time. I know how I contributed and would like to make amends. My H is very naive. He is still entralled with OP. She is a "saint" to him...... <P>I vent here when I feel really resentful and I usually learn something (about human nature and about myself) along the way. <P>

I thought I'd take you down another spiritual and moral delimma to see how I made the choice to forgive...<P>I questioned my minister about adultery, the broken vows, and my vows to honor, cherish in sickness and in health till death... Strangely, I knew he had broken the vows, but I was more concerned about what it would mean to break my own by divorcing him for the adultery. Could I ever get remarried? Would it be a sin? Religion had taught me the value of forgiveness and a part of me felt I had to forgive to be a good christian. He told me then, but it wasn't until I read the actual passage in the bible that my choice became clear. If you look up divorce in the index of the bible you will find a passage where Jesus states that the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultery. I don't have the bible in front of me right now so I can't quote the passage, but you can look it up. <P>Anyway, oddly enough it was the freedom to choose to forgive that helped me lose the resentment. Spiritually, morally I could walk away with a clear conscience. I chose to stay. I remembered that we are all capable of hurting others. I remembered that we are all capable of helping others. My love bank was still full enough to hang on.<P>When you think about it God's love bank for all of us must be just mind boggling vast. Here we are on a day to day basis doing thousands of things that hurt him, and he smiles down upon us. With just a simple please forgive me, I'll try to do better next time he puts his hand on our shoulder and says that's ok. I'll help you. Of course his help sometimes isn't in exactly the form we'd like it to take, but hey. <P>Don't know if that helped, but did want you to know that forgiveness is a choice.